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  • With the release of the Outlaw & Lychgate short story, it seems that the Torture Tower series is indeed canon to EC, being the parallel world that Amostia (the Punishment boy) travels to. I thought it would be prudent to start a thread on the series so we could all collate our information on it, and see how it all relates to Evillious.

    As always, let's keep our replies concise, civil and productive.

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    • *dons the complimentary clown wig*
      

      I think it was just early speculation based on Outlaw previews but I remember hearing theories that the world Banica and Evil's Theater II went to was also the Torture Tower universe. Not entirely sure what came of that.

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    • I own the Torture Tower novels and the manga, so I can provide scans if anyone wants to look for any EC references.

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    • The EC references seem to really start to appear in the final novel, where a mysterious boy resembling Rack, Amo, arrives and tells them about the tale of the "selfish princess and her servant". Hm...

      I transcribed the entire manga for no good reason, the intro/profiles at the beginning of each novel, and a section in the third novel titled "BLACKBOX". I know if I do any more I'll just be tempted to put that into google translate and nobody wants that.

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    • Scarletta Agni wrote:

      *dons the complimentary clown wig*
      

      I think it was just early speculation based on Outlaw previews but I remember hearing theories that the world Banica and Evil's Theater II went to was also the Torture Tower universe. Not entirely sure what came of that.

      Several names for people and places in the parallel world are dropped in the last chapter of the Heavenly novel, so we could always cross-reference that with the Torture Tower novels.

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    • Yeah I think that's the only way to tell, since otherwise nothing came of it in Outlaw

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    • I don't think that the world they went to was the same world--Amostia goes to that world through a gate (why use a theater when you can just walk in?), and the way Seth talks about it it sounds like he plans on them going to a different world than the one Amostia chose.

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    • If anyone wants to skim the Torture Tower novels and manga for Evillious stuff, here are the scans: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1M5vsYLSh-9fzuqbBpRwMqAjIilDwKw8U?usp=sharing

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    • First novel mentions the drink Blood Grave, and the bonus story mentions the criminal organization Pere Noel, as well as someone having "her" (also known as "Malice"). That's what I've got so far, anyways.

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    • This is probably just a parallel to EC but the Sleepless Torture Tower song's about three girls "succeding their father's dying wish" and punishing those who enter the Torture Tower. Reminds me how motc gives intruders the death penalty.

      Also a pink/red frog and a pot appear in the PV. To me that might be a reference to The Frog and My Love Romance or might be Rahab's equivalent from that universe (assuming everyone in EC has a counterpart in that universe).

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    • Why Rahab?

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    • Because in Chrono Story, Envy was represented by a spring or a jug

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    • I looked at the names of some of the cards that are in the game Master of the Demon from SoE Demon of Twilight. 2 names came up: ベリトード (Beritoad) and アモスティア (Amostia). At first I thought they were plays on the names Berith and Asmodeus, but then I remembered Beritoad's a character from Sleepless Torture Tower and Amostia's that Irregular created by Seth.

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    • So it seems the SoE series was making references to TTDS as well. Nice. Good to have that cleared up (The whole "youma/wraith" thing counts as well, given that it seems to be the TTDS equivalent to demons).

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    • Since multiple universes/timelines exist with in the Evillious Series, does anyone else think the Evillious characters have TTDS counterparts? Like, Kiril stated the world Banica goes to is another take on the Third Period and I'm guessing that applies to every parallel world.

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    • Maybe Hank Fieron is the TTDS of Lord Hedgehog (?)

      And the sisters are a result of a Re-birthday made by Beritoad. 

      Beritoad is a forest spirit (his frog form) gone rough that decided to proclaim himself as a god (Earthling pride).

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    • I think it's pretty clear that Rack is supposed to be Riliane, what with their personalities being the same and her naming her rack Josephine (and the whole thing with Amostia who looks like Allen).

      Vivian looks extremely similar to Lust era Elluka and has a similar (if meaner) personality, though she's not an actual sorceress at all.

      Lloyd has similar motivations to Platonic, actually (get a bunch of money and buy a place in the city somewhere), though he's killed people and she hasn't.

      Chamberlain and his family remind me of the Freezises (originally poor family that struck it rich by chance), with Cynthia being Yukina (the doted on firstborn who has no interest in the family business) and Danny being a mix between Shaw and Aile (the heir to the business and the sickly child).

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    • Rabiah sort of reminds me of Lich with the fact he can turn into a crow and both he and Lich are loyal to heir respective masters. He also reminds me of the crow from SoE DoT that ends his sentences with Katakana.

      Raymond sort of reminds me of Lemy and how they both look like clowns and their parents are both heads of Pere Noel.

      Hank's EC counterpart could be Somy given they both love torture, but I think it could also be Arth given how they were both respected but were causes for a lot of bloodshed.

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    • I think we can theorize about this happening in the ending of the Conchita era and the beggining of the SoE era in TTDS universe:

      We have a Somy and Platonic counterparts (Hank and Lyod).

      Rabiah that paralels with Lich and Beritoad can be another forest spirit, maybe they are more like (friends loyalty) like Lich and Eater.

      Vivian with a Lust era Elluka appearence (maybe she is from the TTDS version of MK Levianta).

      Rack as a parallel to Rilliane and Raymond to Lemy (both the DoE era and Pierrot were 100 apart).

      And the begginings of the Freezis counterpart, the Chamberlain.

      Very complete for a Conchita-SoE eras parallel in my opinion.

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    • Whats left to discuss (theorize) is what changed in this universe:

      In my opinion while the MK Levianta was destroyed neither Seth, Elluka nor Irina survived. For that reason Hansel and Gretel never made the rebirth-day (in O&L it's suggested that Seth was the one who influence them to do it) nor the world received Levia's or Irina's interventions.

      So people still believe in mages but as a legend (and thats what made the Crossrosier real origin).

      Beritoad would be another rebel spirit of Held that left the forest before Lich and founded Pere Noel using Pale Noel's Tomb as his hideout and so inspiring in teh organization name.

      As a spirit he may have the power of alchemy (maybe a chemist in his earthling life XD), in one of Price last infomine it says that Beritoad isn't a real god but a wraith (demon or spirit).

      The novel would take place in a Marlon island where Lioness won the war, Hank (Somy) taking the TTDS version of Castle Hedgehog (Torcia Tower) as his residence.

      For some reason, some years past the war Hank would have made contact with Beritoad (like Arth with Lich, maybe Hank died on war or something) and so they enacted the battle of the Horaga Cave as part of Hank trade with the wraith for eternal life (?).

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    • What comes after this is just TTDS and Evillious characters paralleling (not a word i think).

      HERs existing but being called "Malice" come from Levianta too.

      Lyod with Platonic, looking for a better life as a thief.

      Chamberlain with the Freezis, as that Fandom User explain.

      The Crossrosier to try and imitate the real mages of the MK Levianta that went extinct after the catastrophe, in TTDS Vivian takes the role of Elluka as a sorceress (timeline).

      Raymond with Lemy, as Fandom User said.

      The story takes place in the ending of the Conchitas period and the begging of the Story of Evil:

      And that explains the appearence of the Freezis counterpart, Rack and Amo (Rilliane and Allen) and Raymond (Lemy would be born 100 after but it's a theroy).

      The girls would be born through Beritoad's magic and that explains the birth of Rack (an irregular I suppose) without a male counterpart. This happened with Abyss-IR and Ney, this role will be filled by Amostia when he travels to this TTDS universe.

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    • If someone reads my theory and gives an opinion I will be very happy honestly. I was kinda over-enthusiastic I guess XD

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    • KarcheesCrimm wrote:
      I think we can theorize about this happening in the ending of the Conchita era and the beggining of the SoE era in TTDS universe:

      You say this, but the story includes plenty of Pierrot-Era references too, and you also listed at least one Lust-era reference with Vivian. I do agree that the story seems to focus the most on Conchita and Daughter of Evil parallels for right now, though, but it also seems like in terms of period setting it's leaning more towards Pierrot era or at least the end of DoE era.

      Whats left to discuss (theorize) is what changed in this universe:

      Let me say first of all that I do not believe that TTDS is at all a "what if" AU of Evillious, and I don't think anything so far is suggesting that it is. I think that TTDS is just what the O & L novel suggested it is--a world that was retroactively changed from Sickle's meddling via distortions. I believe that it is now completely different from EC to the very core, as even the mechanics of magic are suggested to be different here. O and L is basically just mothy telling fans why there's similar terms in TTDS to EC when there's none of EC's context behind them.

      For that reason Hansel and Gretel never made the rebirth-day (in O&L it's suggested that Seth was the one who influence them to do it)

      I can't find where in the infomine this is suggested, are you sure that this is the case?

      Beritoad would be another rebel spirit of Held that left the forest before Lich and founded Pere Noel using Pale Noel's Tomb as his hideout and so inspiring in teh organization name.

      As a spirit he may have the power of alchemy (maybe a chemist in his earthling life XD), in one of Price last infomine it says that Beritoad isn't a real god but a wraith (demon or spirit).

      Just because the word for wraith can also be translated as "spirit" doesn't mean that Beritoad is specifically a forest spirit. He's most definitively a wraith, which is a species so far unique to the TTDS series (and a species that is way more widespread and capable of interacting with the human world than the forest spirits in EC are, to the point that you can have children with wraiths, which is obviously impossible to do with forest spirits.) Despite the terminology they don't even seem like spirits, apparently, they're solid and have mostly humanoid forms.

      A point of confusion for people on this point might be the fact that Beritoad is in an animal form right now? But the book and bonus story makes it clear that this is not Beritoad's original form and that he is accepting basically blood sacrifices to regain power and restore his original form. These are all things that make him very unlike forest spirits in EC. So it's also not guaranteed that he had an "earthling" past life, tho we haven't gotten to the inevitable crazy revelations about the TTDS setting yet.

      The novel would take place in a Marlon island where Lioness won the war, Hank (Somy) taking the TTDS version of Castle Hedgehog (Torcia Tower) as his residence.

      I could see that, maybe not specifically Lioness taking over but the Lioness equivalent? Maybe the continents are to some extent the same, and TTDS is certainly going for a British feel.

      For some reason, some years past the war Hank would have made contact with Beritoad (like Arth with Lich, maybe Hank died on war or something) and so they enacted the battle of the Horaga Cave as part of Hank trade with the wraith for eternal life (?).

      That's interesting. I like that idea because it could mean mothy had this plot thread about Arth and Lich's relationship long before he brought it into play in EC. I don't know about the battle at Horaga Cave being specifically part of the contract, though.

      The Crossrosier to try and imitate the real mages of the MK Levianta that went extinct after the catastrophe, in TTDS Vivian takes the role of Elluka as a sorceress (timeline).

      While I do believe Vivian is supposed to be a parallel to Elluka, she's more of a joke character that gets killed off to demonstrate how radically different the story is from EC than anything, not an actual sorceress.

      The girls would be born through Beritoad's magic and that explains the birth of Rack (an irregular I suppose) without a male counterpart. This happened with Abyss-IR and Ney, this role will be filled by Amostia when he travels to this TTDS universe.

      I don't know about Rack, but Gibbet explicitly has a mysterious past that Beritoad is trying to keep from her. If he's not behind Gibbet's creation, it's unlikely he is for the other girls as well. Though if it turns out that Rack is an irregular, from him or some other creator, and that actually comes up, that would again prove that mothy had some of the ideas he put late into EC already in mind long before (though since a lot of the irregulars stuff in Heavenly came off as kind of a gentle retcon, I have my doubts.)

      Also, Abyss IR is not an irregular, Seth just tried to turn Irina into one (allegedly) but failed.

      For future reference, you can edit your post to add more stuff instead of making several posts at once

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    • I prefered writting several text because by personal experience people usually doesn't like reading so much in one post or message but I get your point and obviously it's more useful so im going to use it. 

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    • I don't know how to quote 7-7

      So im going to do what I can or know.

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    • "You say this, but the story includes plenty of Pierrot-Era references too, and you also listed at least one Lust-era reference with Vivian. I do agree that the story seems to focus the most on Conchita and Daughter of Evil parallels for right now, though, but it also seems like in terms of period setting it's leaning more towards Pierrot era or at least the end of DoE era"

      The era thing is tricky because there is no such thing as "it was fated to happen in all universe" so my theory about the era was more me listing all the references I could found and relate to Evillious timeline.

      "Let me say first of all that I do not believe that TTDS is at all a "what if" AU of Evillious, and I don't think anything so far is suggesting that it is. I think that TTDS is just what the O & L novel suggested it is--a world that was retroactively changed from Sickle's meddling via distortions. I believe that it is now completely different from EC to the very core, as even the mechanics of magic are suggested to be different here. O and L is basically just mothy telling fans why there's similar terms in TTDS to EC when there's none of EC's context behind them."

      I imagine "the distortion" as a "what if..." scenario. I mean like if it was just one thing that changed everything that came after it. But looking at a "core change" distortion I guess you are right.

      "'Just because the word for wraith can also be translated as "spirit" doesn't mean that Beritoad is specifically a forest spirit. He's most definitively a wraith, which is a species so far unique to the TTDS series (and a species that is way more widespread and capable of interacting with the human world than the forest spirits in EC are, to the point that you can have children with wraiths, which is obviously impossible to do with forest spirits.) Despite the terminology they don't even seem like spirits, apparently, they're solid and have mostly humanoid forms.

      A point of confusion for people on this point might be the fact that Beritoad is in an animal form right now? But the book and bonus story makes it clear that this is not Beritoad's original form and that he is accepting basically blood sacrifices to regain power and restore his original form. These are all things that make him very unlike forest spirits in EC. So it's also not guaranteed that he had an "earthling" past life, tho we haven't gotten to the inevitable crazy revelations about the TTDS setting yet."

      After reafing the last infomine the wraith thing clear up to me haha. And yes, the "weak form" is a good idea.

      "I could see that, maybe not specifically Lioness taking over but the Lioness equivalent? Maybe the continents are to some extent the same, and TTDS is certainly going for a British feel."

      If we have to abandon the "what if..." scenario type of world then, yeah I agree. Also the tower is the strongest point to the paralels in my opionion, or it just could be base in the real life rumor of the Big Ben Clock being used as a torture tower.

      "That's interesting. I like that idea because it could mean mothy had this plot thread about Arth and Lich's relationship long before he brought it into play in EC. I don't know about the battle at Horaga Cave being specifically part of the contract, though."

      If we take my' '"what if... type of world" and we keep the "wraith = forest spirit" then is more like a demon contract. If we dont the is just a "they ended in tie so they became friends and help each other heal" kind of thing where Hank was left behind by the lovestruck Romarius and for some reason Hank was mortally injured and at the same time Beritoad was injured by the other "good guy" (grey moral novel) and so they decided to help each other  and for that Hank betrayed her comrades. Or it was just because he is an TTDS HER.

      "While I do believe Vivian is supposed to be a parallel to Elluka, she's more of a joke character that gets killed off to demonstrate how radically different the story is from EC than anything, not an actual sorceress."

      I like to conect things and thats their connection but I really think is an insult to Elluka call Vivian her TTDS version XD.

      "I don't know about Rack, but Gibbet explicitly has a mysterious past that Beritoad is trying to keep from her. If he's not behind Gibbet's creation, it's unlikely he is for the other girls as well. Though if it turns out that Rack is an irregular, from him or some other creator, and that actually comes up, that would again prove that mothy had some of the ideas he put late into EC already in mind long before (though since a lot of the irregulars stuff in Heavenly came off as kind of a gentle retcon, I have my doubts.)"

      I can't say anything about this because I dont really have much knowledge so...

      Thanks for reading it and I relaly liked your opinions, sorry for my bad redaction and english. English is not my"original language" (I don't know how you say t) and it's my first time comenting u3u

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    • I'm crossing into spoiler territory so if you aren't interessted look away.

      It's revealed that Maiden is the only "true" torture device. The "emerald girl" at some point wounds Gibbet, causing her to bleed, and since "Artifacts" as they're called can't bleed Gibbet has to be a real human. Infact, she is Hank's biologica daughter.

      There is a character in the novels called "Luna Loose" her first appearance in the series is in ring of evil. Maybe she's connected to Hazuki, maybe she's not.

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    • Luna Loose???

      Are you referring to Luna Ruth?

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    • Gibbet bleeds in the first novel as well.

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    • I'm crossing into spoiler territory so if you aren't interessted look away.

      If I read Ring of Evil right, someone named Magion was talking to Gibbet saying she was his sister and that her real name is Christabel. Also Rabiah claimed Christabel is Storaphia's reincarnation, so...

      Also, in Emerald Girl, Tsukumo's described as having an artificial magic body (In the original text, it was written as人造魔道体). I think whatever Tsukumo is is the TTDS equivalent to Ghoul Children. I also think it's worth noting Hargain mentioned making artificial magic bodies uses Necromancy.

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    • FYI posting "spoiler warnings" on your post does literally nothing for a thread people have to scroll to read.

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    • Yeah it's a fanwork.

      For future reference, this is mothy's twitter where he posts content updates https://twitter.com/mothy_akuno

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    • How possible is it the TTDS series takes place in the Fourth Period?

      Beritoad & Amostia were mentioned in a card game and a crow with Rabiah's speech patterns makes an appearance in Demon of Twilight. Assuming the crow is Rabiah, why was he with Tarou? (Side note: I think Tarou is Sickle or his reincarnation. Not much evidence for that but that's for another discussion)

      Also in the Evils Extra crossfade, Unlock Blackbox was paired up with Torture Tower Doesn't Sleep. It probably means nothing but I thought it was worth mentioning.

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    • I think the crow is just a reference to Rabiah, and not Rabiah himself. In O&L, Amostia takes a gate separate to the ones used by the souls of the dead to cross over to the Fourth Period, which means the world of TTDS is separate from the Fourth Period.

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    • While you could say that potentially two gates could lead to the same place, the Fourth Period's pretty different from TTDS in all its appearances imo. TTDS is more fantasy Victorian England, Fourth Period is like a typical modern Earth setting (Unlock Blackbox mentions a real-life time period I believe) where there also happens to be magic, conspiracies, and demons.

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    • A FANDOM user
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