FANDOM


  • mothy jsut announced on twitter he will release a novel called "Outlaw&Lychgate" on the vomas event the 28th. And next week he will release a new song sung by Meiko

    INFOMINE DIRECTORY

      Loading editor
    • Cool

        Loading editor
    • For posterity, I'm listing the tweets here.

        Loading editor
    • Ok so the new song is just a cover of "Fictional masquerade" (the song he composed for a game) by Meiko as he explained here

      Hopefully he'll release some information about O&L soon.

        Loading editor
    • The upcoming novel will be an evillious thing

      D4RXmg0UcAAR Me.jpg large
      Mothy even released a part of the cover.

      So it turns out to be about Lich and a person I can only assume is Keel.

        Loading editor
    • I wonder what the novel might be about, the Kiyoteru character's clothes look a lot like Keel's ones, so I too think is him, but then would that mean it may be a Novel related to the Pride era, or perhaps might focus in Lich and/or the ghould children in the underground facility, since I don't think mothy would write another DoE novel just yet, maybe it will explain in more detail Arth's creation as well, and perhaps Lich's relation with Eater, Vlad/Banica and maybe even Michaela too!

      Though part of me wishes this novel could be like a prelude to any OSS novels that may come later on.

        Loading editor
    • Mothy's tweet suggests it's after the novel Master of the Heavenly Yard but before Banica Concerto. So, during the in-between period where the souls were still reincarnating into the Fourth Period.

        Loading editor
    • Mothy released a full cover of the image above: https://twitter.com/mothy_akuno/status/1118395111052804096

        Loading editor
    • D4VWZCBXoAAAPpe.jpg large
      Seems like Keel is facing a couple of ghosts but I can't make it all out because it's too small. I find it very interesting that he just release a stand alone novel like this (altough he's pointed out that this novel is "shorter than usual") I doubt we'll get any but I hope for some more promotional material. He said he won't release any other new products (for now) but he'll be selling keychains and albums on Bomas

      Also when mothy first had these printed the company contacted him and asked "Did you forget to paint the skin color of the guy on the left?"

        Loading editor
    • I know the general consensus at the moment is that it is Keel with Lich, due to the clothes and glasses (? I cannot tell the image is small). I think it's safe to assume Lychgate refers to Lich, but what about the 'Outlaw' part of the title? Is it at all possible that this could be refering to Pale Noel being the Kiyoteru character? There's only four options really, but Keel and Kiril are both pretty straight laced. None of us quite know what is up with Kiril post ending (it's implied he is self aware of being a vocaloid?) but I would not describe him as an outlaw. And while Seth has caused most of the issues in the series, his brand of malice is much more 'infiltrate from within' and less 'chaos and destruction,' so again, I personally ould not describe him as an outlaw. But I have no official confirmation, this is just my personal speculation. 

        Loading editor
    • That is true, though there's a small possibility that Sickle may be the one who may refer to Kiril as an outlaw due the Levianta Catastrophe and everything he did, and that's right, though to be honest most Kiyoteru kinda look the same, due to their circumstances is understandable, so he could be any of them.

        Loading editor
    • Also are we sure this is a novel, and not a short story? Or is it simply, to the best of our current knowledge, just a shorter-than-normal-novel?

        Loading editor
    • 1. Keel has a known past of having been a criminal, so the fact that he's currently straightlaced doesn't mean he's incapable of being the "Outlaw" in the title. I also don't agree that it "could be any of them"--he is dressed as Keel. This isn't a "maybe" thing, he is unambiguously wearing his clothing and glasses, none of which look remotely like what the other Kiyoteru characters wear (the pince-nez in particular is unique to him).

      2. It's only 800 yen, from what I've seen, so it's probably a short novel ala Seven Crimes and Punishments. As in, still has chapters but maybe 100 pages shorter or something.

      3. Mothy has also said he plans to release CDs and keychains alongside the novel at the event, however he's stated these are not new works.

        Loading editor
    • I was thinking about the lych vs lich spelling so I tried googling the names to see what their relation to each other is and in the process I, found some interesting information
      Lychgate
        Loading editor
    • Yeah Keel being the outlaw would fit in perfectly with his past.

      There's been plenty of hints in the Daughter of Evil novels that he can be ruthless and that before he met Mikina he was a cutthroat person. And with the Gift novel's translation it's now become very clear that the corruption of the Freezis Foundation we saw in Judgment started at the roots with him, when he absorbed the very very illegal Association (albeit he didn't abuse the heck out of it like Kaidor did.) 

      Hopefully this means we'll finally get some light shed on said past and how he escaped from the Freezis Machine when he was a tiny baby at the time

        Loading editor
    • Also missed Tobimisa's reply but yeah it is a pretty decent possibility that Lich's name was supposed to be (or now is, since mothy might not have been thinking about the English spelling) Lych. They're both kinda the same reference anyway.

        Loading editor
    • I still say wait, like I did in the other thread, to get context. While it may seem obvious, we don't know what Lychgate is in relation to the character.

        Loading editor
    • https://twitter.com/mothy_akuno/status/1118395111052804096

      Mothy said O&L takes place after master of the heavenly yard but before Banica Concerto!!. Maybe when the CLKOW PV said "WITH HIM AND 'HER'", that's what they meant.

        Loading editor
    • If Keel's the person Banica was referring to in Banica Concerto!!, I wonder why he would be with them.

        Loading editor
    • Maybe it's not Keel and just Seth with one of his clones and the nobel-like clothes are lend by Banica.

        Loading editor
    • 1. There's no reason to think just because Keel is in this story that he's with Banica in Banica Concerto. This takes place before it, not during, probably just to explain why Lich is there instead of in another universe.

      2. Why would mothy make the decision to dress a Kiyoteru in Keel's clothing (not, "a noble's clothing" but the specific outfit that Keel wears) for the cover? It would not only be ridiculously misleading but utterly pointless as a twist.

      istg you guys just really don't want it to be Keel, don't you?

        Loading editor
    • Mothy has just uploaded previews on Twitter.

        Loading editor
    • So it's five chapters long plus afterword. Also nice to see arth in this. So all the chapters are named "*** of the dead"(as in dead people)

      From what I can tell there's a flash back in the  first chapter because Lich is together with "Michael" drinking coffee and eating hot dogs

        Loading editor
    • Some of my reactions to the tweets: With the titles of each chapter, it seems like the Death Gods and/or Banica judge the dead souls. The first chapter's called "Gate of the Dead" and the last chapter's called "Resolution of the Dead"

      The place Michael and Lich are drinking Coffee is called "Kuroe Kafe" (I think it should be translated as Crowe Café)

      The face Lich makes on the same page as Arth is creepy (When is Lich not creepy?)

      Keep in mind, I am not Price so let's wait on what She has to say.

        Loading editor
    • The "Dead" in the chapter titles that you're reading specifically means "dead person", though I'm not sure if that's a plural or specifically referring to Lich (who is a dead man, technically).

      There's no reason to think Banica is "judging" souls at any point. Judgment is Court's MO, remember? I also think it's too soon to come up with a translation of the cafe name--Crowe seems safe but it seems to suggest some negative relationship between Lich and the owner (or at least, that he's not friends with them), which may mean it's someone we know that will provide context to the name.

        Loading editor
    • So mothy put out a poster for what he's selling, which includes the novel and some summary

      D4wAbeNUYAUMa8N.jpg large
      Appearently after Allen left and everyone heads for the "gate" in the forest Arth asks Lich to deal with something about an "outlaw". That's as far as I understand.
        Loading editor
    • "Outlaw" seems to refer to a group of dead soldiers rather than a singular person.

        Loading editor
    • Mothy pointed out on Twitter there were some typos in the book (For example 確立 was supposed to be 確率). He says he'll fix the typos in a re-sale.

      Also I already pointed it out on the DSoE MoN page, but can someone verify if Mothy actually wrote Gandhi as カンディ with a Ka instead of a Ga?

        Loading editor
    • https://privatter.net/p/4512315

      Here are some major reveals i found out from a twitter user

      • Gumillia and Michael were engaged
      • Lich and Michael are american
      • Lich killed Gumillia, Michael, and Eater.(Killing Gumillia made him become a her)
      • Inheritors all get their abilities from the demons of Sin(except for wrath and sloth)
      • The parallel world Banica travels to is the world of torture tower, yes THAT one.
      • A girl named Amostia shows up and seems to have some relation to Luna as she take her body away and flies off.
      • Aybee Cee in the inheritor of Vlad.
      • Also not sure about this but it's possible that Aybee was Ron grapple's father
      • "Punishment" is an alternate version of Allen. Sickle dubs him "failed Allen".
        Loading editor
    • Like always, let's take all this content with a grain of salt until we're actually able to get a hold of the source contents.

      Still, it's all pretty interesting.

        Loading editor
    • The parallel world being Torture Tower makes sense because wasn't it years back someone mentioned that the Master of the Graveyard is brought up in the Torture Tower novels?

        Loading editor
    • Nico looked through the infomine and can confirm that Michaela and Gumillia were engaged and that the Arklows were American, but was unable to confirm anything else Misstress said from that infomine.

        Loading editor
    • We also don't know the reliability of the infomine itself. I mean, it's possible everything is legit but sometimes people do share information incorrectly, even just by accident.

        Loading editor
    • Glancing over this, this doesn't look like an infomine at all. More like someone's live commentary of the novel. There's so much squeeing it's hard to sort through the actual facts, and the ones that are there are phrased in a way that makes me unsure of their validity (like, Lich and Michael being American is phrased with a question mark).

      Would definitely like to wait for the source.

        Loading editor
    • I forgot one thing Seth says "I'm not bad" in direct reference to blood stained switch, not sure what that means.

      But Yeah there were lots of other stuff I wasn't sure if I wanted to include Like she theorizes that Lich might have tried to pair Clarith and Michaela up to make up for killing Gumillia but I'm not sure if that's just reaching.

        Loading editor
    • This person does establish that Seth says "It's not my fault/I'm not bad" but whether or not that's a reference to Blood-Stained Switch is pure speculation on their part.

      Again--this person does not appear to be a strictly reliable source, I would much prefer if we got the actual novel to look at.

        Loading editor
    • So I made a page and some character section for characters I know are mentioned(but I also have sections for other characters I thought needed some) I'm wondering if I can post them?

        Loading editor
    • No.

        Loading editor
    • Managed to find a better source than the tweet. That blogger who posted Song of the Black Bird this person

      What I got from their lastest update is that "Outlaw" is an undead creature that hasn't been revived by Vlad's Magic. They can't be killed because they'll be ressurected everytime. They first disappeared after Punishment was fired but they've begun to appear in the hellish yard again. Lich just says that corpses and souls can't harm eachother so the outlaws aren't a threat to any souls in the third period but Arth says that Banica told him that the Outlaws still have their souls, so he wants Lich to kill off the Outlaws so that their souls become freed and they can move on to the next world.

        Loading editor
    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      Managed to find a better source than the tweet. That blogger who posted Song of the Black Bird this person

      What I got from their lastest update is that "Outlaw" is an undead creature that hasn't been revived by Vlad's Magic. They can't be killed because they'll be ressurected everytime. They first disappeared after Punishment was fired but they've begun to appear in the hellish yard again. Lich just says that corpses and souls can't harm eachother so the outlaws aren't a threat to any souls in the third period but Arth says that Banica told him that the Outlaws still have their souls, so he wants Lich to kill off the Outlaws so that their souls become freed and they can move on to the next world.

      I'm surprised that Arth had a talk with Banica Conchita

        Loading editor
    • Well, mothy has already announced that the novel is being sold by mail. Here the tweet . Here where you buy .

        Loading editor
    • Purchased. I'll get to scanning it as soon as it arrives.

        Loading editor
    • So another thign I found out from lofter is that the earliest known member of the Loop Octopus Clan is a "Dean" of Levianta (I'm assuming in the religious kind). If that dean turns out to be a time traveled Gammon i'm blowing a fuse.

        Loading editor
    • I'm not sure why or how it could be a time-traveled Gammon considering what we know about the Court Ending.

        Loading editor
    • I'm not sure what you mean because since it seems Irina could become Alice why can't Gammon be the dean? I wonder if he has something to do with "Venom".

      Although then they wouldn't be inheritors, would they?

        Loading editor
    • Irina started out as Alice, then became Alice again in the Court ending. Therefore it makes sense that Gammon would just be Gammon again.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, iirc as far as the info we have right now, the Court ending is implied to not be time travel at all but just repeating the Third Period again as it was before, like as some alternate world or something. There's no reason to think Gammon would become anyone other than himself (and for him to have always been the dean would imply he can reincarnate, which shouldn't be possible for him).

        Loading editor
    • That's a relief.

        Loading editor
    • Ok so updates from lofter.

      We finally get to see what Ron Grapple look like he's the dude sitting in the chair

      RonSethLichOL
      He's become the leader of the outlaw and he's interviewed by Lich and Seth(who for some reason is dressed like Keel) he's starts to explain that when he was killed by the twins he mentions being ressurected by his father, Aybee, the inheritor of Vlad. But after rambling on about the twins he begins screaming and Lich decides to move on. They then meet the boy named "Amostia"(i assumed it was a girl at first my bad) the boy we knew as "Punishment". Interesting to note, in the torture tower series there is a blonde kid named "Amos". There is some talk about how Luna used to say(because she's a gamer) "If you failed, just start over from the last save point" but no magic can turn back time so it's impossible.
        Loading editor
    • A character named Amostia is in the final novel of Torture Tower, so... hm...

        Loading editor
    • Ylimegirl wrote:
      A character named Amostia is in the final novel of Torture Tower, so... hm...

      Yeah and appearently Amostia is called a "failed Alexiel". I don't want to say anything for sure but it seems to me that the alternate world referenced all the time is the Torture tower world.

      I wonder if this also is the world where the toys in SGP come from. Ma herself said that that world would get "mixed up" with theirs.

        Loading editor
    • Speaking of Torture Tower, where did you get a translation?

        Loading editor
    • I own the novels and I transcribed part of it a while ago. I can read Katakana so I picked up on Amostia but that's about it. I can't read Kanji or translate, so I can't do much else, but if someone else ever wants to give a shot at not machine translation I'd be happy to help.

        Loading editor
    • Understood.

        Loading editor
    • I was thinking asking Price for an info mine but she is busy right now with the SCP novel.

        Loading editor
    • If the chinese guy from Lofter is accurate, I have some interesting notes:

      Aybee was always using his inheritor powers to control Ron and apparently Ron unconciously hired Arte and Pollo. Also, Ron could apparently control corpse soldiers too (though I think gains the ability after the world ended).

      Michael and Gumillia were registered as Levia's assistants.

      Lich studied cloning and did reaserch on the Mask Clan as well as Vampires and superhumans (I'm like 65% sure that's how Lich met Eater, assuming Vlad was a vampire)

        Loading editor
    • Another update from lofter Amostia seems to be a fleshed out character, so that's nice.

      Appearently the outlaws wanted to bury Banica but that's impossible since Banica's entire body was devoured, yet somehow the outlaws are carrying around a coffin containing a body. It is explained that they need a genesis girl to undo the curse of the outlaws, but all the genesis girls (Grete, Riliane, Eve) have already left the third period. Amostia gets mad at Seth(calling him his "father") and says that he is an ending boy and it could be fixed if he had only made him a sister. Seth says he tried to make Irina his sister after she died but he failed. Amostia gets even more upset, sprouting wings he takes the coffin from the outlaws and flies away. Seth reveals that it's actually Luna in that coffin and Amostia goes through the door. Lich tries to, but becomes too afraid. He realizes that his malice is gone and he has reverted back to the original timid man he was in the second period, before he became a her.

      Also Seth talks with one of the souls about how his mother never cooked for him.

      Now there is only one chapter left. Hopefully it'll clear some things up. I'm not entirely sure but it seems that once it became clear that Banica couldn't be burried, the curse was lifted and the souls were released.

        Loading editor
    • If Seth tried to make Irina a genesis girl, that might shine some light on why she references Full Moon Laboratory, mhhhmm...

        Loading editor
    • I really like the expansion of diffrent concepts this story has to offer.

      It's said that the reason Amostia could destroy earth through Punishment was because he's an ending boy. It also seems like he's unstable because he doesn't have a genesis girl. Some japanese fans have talked about how Rack seems to be his "counter part" but idk.

        Loading editor
    • I would like to just remind everyone that we're not adding any of this info to the pages yet until it can be verified by a source other than people google-translating what a Chinese info-miner says.

        Loading editor
    • My copy has finally shipped, so you should have scans in the next 2-5 days

        Loading editor
    • Do you think it is possible that Irina started out as Alice, and do to Seth's experiments trying to make her a 'genesis girl' she failed and ended up as Irina Clockworker? I think that would work with the timeline. (This is entirely speculation)

        Loading editor
    • Just reminding everyone that we won't be implementing any changes related to Outlaw & Lychgate until Price has finished infomining it.

        Loading editor
    • Is that including avatars and image-related changes/additions?

        Loading editor
    • Yes.

        Loading editor
    • Price has infomined the prologue and first chapter.

        Loading editor
    • Please don't call it a translation; it's an infomine.

        Loading editor
    • Sorry, I misspoke. Corrected the post.

        Loading editor
    • Price has now infomined the other three chapters, meaning she's done. So now I guess it's time to update everything we can figure out.

        Loading editor
    • ...I'm calling it, the "him" mentioned in Banica Concerto!! was either Vlad or Ron. Probably Vlad, seeing as Banica would absolutely not consider him her "friend" and Ron probably didn't want to tag along.

      And yes, I know I'm already jumping into baseless speculation mode, but hey.

        Loading editor
    • So it seems that the inheritor isn't Lukana but the senator after all. It's good to finally have that clarified. Seems that needs to be changed

        Loading editor
    • Lukana would still qualify as an inheritor, being a descendent of this person.

        Loading editor
    • I'm really really curious as to what will happen with Amostia and Luna, could it be like a set-up for a following novel mothy might write, or rather could it be like a prequel to the Torture Tower series? Hmmm....

      Also with this thing of merged Allen, the alternate Allen who failed, the senator, it seems to me like mothy might be giving out more question he might plan on answering in an album or short story.

        Loading editor
    • I'm just glad Mothy seems to finally be adressing the "Who sings Re_birthday?" thing with the merged Allens.

        Loading editor
    • You might have to explain that one, I didn't see any reference to Re_Birthday in there

        Loading editor
    • I think Redladydeath might mean that maybe the Alternate Allen is the singer of Re_Birthday, the one that failed to save the third period, but I'm not sure on it myself.

        Loading editor
    • Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong but I thought the Alternate Allen that was merged with the current Allen was the one from SCaP that failed when Nemesis activated Punishment again in the Grave Yard. 

        Loading editor
    • ...I thought that was already explained tho? As "this was an illusion and no one actually got hurt?"

        Loading editor
    • The extra SCAP chapter, iirc, has Rahab claiming that everything got reset by Luna or something.

        Loading editor
    • 2600:1702:3EC0:4B80:E40F:1BE0:2AAD:D5BB wrote:
      Lukana would still qualify as an inheritor, being a descendent of this person.

      No, the inheritor is the original person who got the powers form the god/demon.

        Loading editor
    • In that case, we already knew that Lukana got her purple dream powers from being part of the Loop Octopus clan and not from being an original inheritor so she... shouldn't have been on the page to begin with.

        Loading editor
    • I'll fix it.

        Loading editor
    • Regarding the two merged Allens, I’m getting the impression that the scene at the end of SCaP (where Sickle says hello to Allen again) already takes place in the timeline where the Heavenly novel takes place. Although I think we should wait until the Bonus Episode of SCaP is translated so we can have a better picture of this.

        Loading editor
    • The merging of Allens is just speculation from Seth anyway so there's no rush to put it up there.

        Loading editor
    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:

      No, the inheritor is the original person who got the powers form the god/demon.

      Does that mean we have to get rid of the Inheritors catagory from Gammon and Lukana's pages?

        Loading editor
    • Yeah

        Loading editor
    • There are new images of Eater and Lich and I think of the new bodies (after Banica Concerto!!!) of Arte and Pollo.

      http://evillious.lofter.com/post/168289_1c5d505c9

        Loading editor
    • All of the pictures in the post are fanart by Ichika posted to privatter, and the last one is actually of second period Levia and Behemo with Eater and Lich.

        Loading editor
    • Thanks I wanted to verified that. I don't know if the wiki have a use for the images, I only wanterd to know if they were Levia and Behemo or Arte and Pollo.

      An image of not-crossdressing Behemo...fascinating.

        Loading editor
    • I wish Ichika drew Michael or at least what she thought what Michael would look like. Also I want to learn more about the Mask Clan's 'biology'

        Loading editor
    • I'll go ahead and be the weirdo and say that Behemo looks kinda hot in a suit (and also with his hair tied back, but we already knew that from that one other image Ichika did).

      Also, it's nice to finally see Eater smiling!

        Loading editor
    • I second your thoughts on Behemo.

      And true, it is indeed good to see Eater in a more complete way.

      I tohught of giving the link to the wiki for them to change the actual image of his avatar for that of the drawning that is more definite.

        Loading editor
    • Wait, if Aybee was able to control Ron before he was killed by Arte & Pollo, does that mean he was a Corpse Soldier the whole time?

        Loading editor
    • The book seems to point to that, and if we have into account that Banica (the contractor) never saw the death of Ron (and so never get to figure out he was a corpse), we could assume yes.

      But Aybee was possesed by Irina so I doubt it. And there is the differences between the last name and the whole "Ron talk to AB-CIR in the Conchita novel"

        Loading editor
    • What I'm trying to say is that it gives us a lot of answers (the twins arrival to the mansion for ex) but a lot of questions too (how is Aybee his father, how old is really Ron, he should have died to become a corpse soldier, the Conchita family never noticed his "corpse" nature)

        Loading editor
    • I mean Aybee being his father isn't a big deal since Irina's hosts don't age. Dunno about the corpse thing. 

        Loading editor
    • 8.47.97.44 wrote:
      he was a Corpse Soldier the whole time?

      The only other explination I can think of is Inheritors could probably have variations of the powers they inherited. For example, Mikhail had only one artificial eye while (correct me if I'm wrong) both of Behemo's eyes were implants. Aybee probably has the power to manipulate living bodies too.

        Loading editor
    • Then the power is in reality to create artificial life.

      Behemo has enhaced vision (see great distances), darkness and through solids like in the heavenly yard story. So Mikhail can see through solid surfaces.

      Vlad (gluttony) creates artificial life thanks to being a biotechnology researcher. This grant him the ability, as a demon, to create the Gula virus and then create the artificial bodies of zombies.

      My theory:

      Aybee created the body of Ron and that is way he call him his father and that will explain Ron don't looking like a corpse and Aybee having the power to control him.If this happens before or after Irina took possesion of Aybee it doesn't matter, although in the Gluttony Novel it says that AB-CIR changes names a lot, so maybe the real last name of Aybee is Grapple instead of Cee. 

        Loading editor
    • The only point of contention I see with that (aside from the fact that it's unsubstantiated by positive evidence, of course) is that AB-CIR changing names is because Irina changes names. Aybee, the host, has no reason to change his name.

        Loading editor
    • tbh when Ron was explaining he was made by Aybee into recruiting Arte and Pollo, I assumed that Irina fathered Ron as "Aybee", maybe Grapple is Ron's mother's name so he took that out of spite, and that Irina puppeted him like she did with Ferdinand's wife like in the manga.

      Ron secretly being dead the whole time and Aybee being able to manipulate the dead and thus manipulate him does make some sort of sense, though Ron says it was the twins who cursed him to be an Outlaw, so... I'm not sure if there's some timeline contradictions going on or not. Unless the implication was that whatever kind of undead being he was, was different from an Outlaw, and then the twins changed him into one, somehow (maybe a re_birthday?).

      Idk, I feel like my first impression is the shortest-sweetest to the point with the least amount of confusion. (basically that means don't bet on it)

        Loading editor
    • Occam's razor works for basically every piece of media, unless it's Evillious. But we use it anyways and always get surprised.

        Loading editor
    • I've added the "WIP Articles" category to all the pages that need working on.

      Regarding the whole deal with Ron and Aybee, I think we can afford to be vague about it in the articles, at least until we get further clarification.

        Loading editor
    • You guys think Amostia could have his own page? I mean he is an essential part to this story and has finally shown some personality. I could try to see what I could make of what we have.

      Also i'd like to publish the O&L page.

        Loading editor
    • I think he should.

        Loading editor
    • Regarding the draft of the O&L page, I noticed that there are some characters listed in the Appearances section that didn’t show up in Price’s infomine. Are you getting these from a reliable source?

        Loading editor
    • Yes, they are all at some point in the text

        Loading editor
    • Alright. If that’s the case, feel free to put up the page.

        Loading editor
    • I want to ask, what are everyone's thoughts on assuming that the events of the SCaP short story take place in a parallel world? Specifically, the parallel world where Allen fails to save the Third Period?

      Seth theorizes in O&L that Sickle brought in a version of Allen from an alternate universe and merged him with the one we're familiar with. Meanwhile, the Heavenly novel states that, after being instructed by Sickle to meet with the seven contractors, Allen instead went to Nemesis immediately, instead of what he does in SCaP.

        Loading editor
    • It's confusing because SCaP ends with Rahab saying that they will supposedly "do it over again" as long as the moon goddess is around, which I thought at the time explained the discrepancy between SCaP and other materials. That bonus chapter didn't actually clear anything up orz

      But nothing in the Heavenly Novel clarifies those comments either, either about the world or about Luna's role in it. I guess since SCaP never comes up in any capacity that'd be the only explanation? Even if it feels like something that mothy can very easily say is not the case later.

        Loading editor
    • I would agree to assume that SCaP takes place in the parallel world where Allen failed.

      We could keep most of the SCaP info in the character pages... but if we were to assume that it is a parallel world, how about we make a section for SCaP and title it accordingly? Instead of making new parallel pages for everyone who appeared in SCaP. 

        Loading editor
    • I think we should get a confirmation before changing up pages.

        Loading editor
    • ...And where would this confirmation be coming from exactly?

      It seems pretty clearly presented to me. SCaP happens, and Allen fails to save the Third Period. He wakes up again with all of these memories inside the black box once more. Heavenly states that, canonically in our timeline, Allen did not do what is depicted in SCaP, but simply skipped straight to Nemesis to stop her. O&L says that Sickle merged an Allen that failed in his timeline with the Allen of our timeline, giving him the memories of what happened in that doomed timeline to use to his advantage.

      What more confirmation is needed?

      We can't just say, "well to be safe we should ask mothy on twitter", because mothy barely, if ever, responds to twitter questions (especially not over plot developments that are intended to be obvious, I would think). I think we can safely say from the information that has been given to us that this is the intended reading of SCaP now.

      IMO, the only point of confusion is how the bonus chapter plays into all this.

        Loading editor
    • Just gonna point out, we also thought it was "safe to assume Nemesis was the same Master of the Hellish Yard in all appearances."

        Loading editor
    • Just because the phrase "safe to assume" was used in that instance (if it was) does not mean the same level of evidence was present therein. As in, there was almost no evidence that Nemesis was Master of the Hellish Yard in all appearances, but we thought so because her song was labeled as such and she called herself such, and we didn't realize there was more than one character with that title.

      This situation is more equivalent to us realizing that Master of the Hellish Yard was Gumillia, wherein we had pretty much everything in the story pointing in that direction and people were just reluctant to accept it because nothing explicitly confirmed it outright until later.

      So, what actual counterarguments are there that the evidence provided isn't substantial enough? What could Outlaw and Lychgate possibly be referring to if not SCaP?

        Loading editor
    • Who knows, considering this is the same canon that can't decide if Venomania's wings are bird-like or bat-like, IIRC. Mothy changes his mind on the fly sometimes, so while it's likely you're not wrong, it's also just as likely this is Mothy decided to cover up an inconsistency he realized was there.

        Loading editor
    • 1) Mothy changing his mind on minor cosmetic details (I can't recall if that's actually his doing or if it's an issue of the illustrators he has working on the story) is not the same as him altering major plot points.

      2) If it's a retcon (which I never said it wasn't), my point is that Outlaw and Lychgate, which provides an explanation for why SCaP is stated as not happening despite Allen retaining his knowledge and memories from its events, is recent and signals mothy's current intention for what SCaP is. So, it doesn't matter if him changing his mind is part of this, because he'd be changing his mind to what the current theory is--that SCaP takes place in the alternate Evillious where Allen failed. Regardless of whether or not that was his original intention for SCaP.

      So again--what is it about the current evidence that is not sufficient?

        Loading editor
    • Like, it just seems unreasonable to me that mothy has made clear indications as to what we the audience are meant to interpret as canon in this scenario, and yet we're holding off on making the obvious logical leap because he might pull a plot twist, when the whole point of it being a plot twist would be that he's deliberately pointing us in a different direction anyway and there would be no way for us to know in advance.

      And it's possible that it could be wrong, and it's possible it's not as clear cut as it seems to me, but the only objector on this thread has not actually provided any real counterargument so I can't really tell. Doesn't anyone else have an opinion on this?

        Loading editor
    • It's not really a neutral ground to say "I think we should wait for confirmation first" either.

      I mean to think about it from the perspective of "either we say SCaP is the failed timeline or we say that SCaP happened in this timeline and then was reversed by Luna" the narrative becomes kind of ridiculous. According to our pages (if we keep our old assumption and do the Outlaw updates,) SCaP happened, it got reverted, then Sickle took an Allen from a failed timeline to save theirs through metaphorical "save scumming" even though he supposedly already was actually save-scumming at that point.

      If it turns out SCaP isn't the failed timeline, we'll just change all the info back, that's my vote. 

      Besides, (and this is more in response to myself) "Do it over again" doesn't necessarily mean that SCaP was arbitrarily brought back to the start. It might well mean that the entire timeline was restarted.

      On an almost unrelated note, it would make some as of yet unexplained sense that Luna could do something like that following Amostia destroying everything if she is Amostia's counterpart, somehow (thus being a girl of creation.)

        Loading editor
    • 1. It wasn't just illustrators, since the Lunacy novel mentions bad wings, but according to price he has angel wings mentioned in the Heavenly novel. So IDK there.

      I guess I also feel this way because we ALL were so sure "Soul of Adam" meant SOMETHING RE: Kyle, and then it... Meant nothing. Same with the RE:Birthday song meaning something and now it's basically who knows what. I guess I've just been burnt so bad by Mothy and things we thought were SO OBVIOUS then a few months later it's revealed that no, it wasn't that way ever, we just read into it that way largely based on summaries and not even a full translation.

        Loading editor
    • This is not Re_Birthday. This is not "Soul of Adam". This is not old plot points that mothy changed his mind about years later (he's been working on this series for over a decade, remember). This is not mothy forgetting about stuff. This is not vague, with us having to read into a bunch of disconnected facts to make it work. This is clear and direct evidence coming from his most recent release.

      SCaP featured, at the end, Allen failing to save the world from Punishment. He wakes up where he started, in the box, with no clue of how he got there. The Heavenly Novel mentions that Allen does not do the events described in SCaP, confirming that for some reason, they do not happen in this timeline. Yet, he goes straight for Nemesis, demonstrating that he has knowledge of what happened in SCaP, because he knows she's trying to destroy the world and he goes to stop her. Lychgate then says, "Sickle merged an Allen from a timeline that failed with our Allen, giving him the memories of that failed timeline so that he could avoid the same fate". What else could that possibly be referring to?

      I mean, Octo put it kind of well up there (you didn't even really respond to anything she said at all, actually). It makes less sense assuming SCaP isn't the failed timeline than it does if we assume it is.

      We have a situation that didn't make sense, and mothy provided an explanation. It seems foolish to not accept the explanation on the grounds that he may, possibly, at some point in the future, say "surprise! actually it was something else entirely!". Especially because we really don't gain or lose anything by doing it. So what if it turns out we're actually wrong about this? All that'll equate to is a little bit of inconvenience on changing the page information back. Inconvenience that people like Octofan are more than happy to deal with.

        Loading editor
    • "Sickle merged an Allen from a timeline that failed with our Allen, giving him the memories of that failed timeline so that he could avoid the same fate"

      Allen Avadonia is Dave Strider confirmed.

        Loading editor
    • Opening this discussion for 48 more hours. So far I'm seeing four votes for and two votes against assuming that SCaP takes place in the alternate timeline mentioned in O&L.

        Loading editor
    • Alright, it seems that we'll be assuming SCaP takes place in the alternate timeline mentioned in O&L.

      Moving on, how do we handle the character information in SCaP? I was thinking we make a separate page (something like "List of Characters in Seven Crimes and Punishments") and give each character a section.

        Loading editor
    • So Sickle merged Allen in SCaP with Allen in this timeline. After awaken, he went to Nemesis and take the body to Levia (in DSoE: MoN), and then the event in Heavenly happened?

        Loading editor
    • Yup, that's how it went.

        Loading editor
    • So now that Price has info-mined Torture Tower's last book, I was wondering if Amostia's changed self as portrayed in this story was because Sickle's changes to the timeline actually transformed him into a wraith by that point. Or at least, a being equivalent to a TTDS-universe wraith. Amostia!Rack is said to have wings like how Amostia has wings in his appearance.

      The revelations in Ring of Evil make the timeline of TTDS vs. EC very odd to me

        Loading editor
    • My interpretation is that when Amostia went through the gate into the Torture Tower world, he ended up at the very start of the timeline, early enough to be considered one of the 72 original wraiths.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.