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  • GreekTelepath
    GreekTelepath closed this thread because:
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    01:29, October 7, 2018

    Copying Mistress' post here:

    Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote: Not sure if this is the right place to post this but we have an album release coming soon. The theme of the album is "Clockwork Lullaby"

    Mothy posted theses pictures

    Gearspeek

    He first uploaded this to ask fans if all the gears could move like this

    Clockworklullabytitle
    NCalbumpeek

    he captioned this as "peek"

    I'm can't say for certain that CLockwork Lullaby is the title of the album but it does seem like it. Then again he's said he's not 100% finished with the album.

    Also note the numbers next to the songs, 01 is "Clockwork Lullaby" and 04 is obviously meant to be Heartbear Clocktower. Now there's 10 11 and 12, which are all new songs. 10 starts with "Ba" could possibly be "Barisol" or "Birthday", most likely the latter. 11 is "Aku no" "--- of Evil"  so this is possibly about the twins post motheaveny or something taking place during the Era of Evil or it's about the new books. 12 starts with "Song". Not much I can make out from that possibly "Song of ---", "Song for ---" or something like that.

    Also another interesting thing, while the song CL's title can be seen almost completly. Heartbeat's is cut off, so most likely CL now has been rearranged and has a subtitle.

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    • Repost from the other thread:



      So we might finally have the Clockwork Lullaby series completed with all 12 lullabies!

      Interestingly, one fan asked him whether the title of 11th song is 悪の or 悪ノ.

      Both are pronounced "Aku no" and both mean "of Evil". While songs like "The Daughter of Evil" and "The Servant of Evil" and album "Evils Kingdom" have the "no" in katakana, this one has the "no" in hiragana.

      And mothy confirmed that the 11th title is 悪の, with the "no" in hiragana.

      I don't know if this is of anything significant, but it's quite interesting he chose this new spelling over the original spelling.

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    • It's possible that "悪の" in this case is not intended to reference the title of the various Evil series, but rather just make the "aku" into an adjective. So instead of the "___ of Evil" it could be "The Evil _____".

      It does't seem like these songs are going to be in "chronological" order, at any rate.

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    • Screen Shot 2018-07-25 at 2.15.02 AM
      Di7eEIcWwAA5tny.jpg-large
      The album's finally been announced!
      Screen Shot 2018-07-25 at 2.17.09 AM
       And we'll be able to order it online (hopefully)!
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    • So the album is named clockwork lullaby

      Like is suspected there is a subtitle for CL, "Key Of Word". I really like this song so it's going to be fun to hear it rearranged.

      So the new songs are "Banica Concerto!!", "The Karma of Evil is unending" and "Song of Third Period"

      Concerto is italian for concert btw

      I can get to work on any of these pages if that's alright.

      Also i find it odd that only the spoon and the mirrors are framed, I wonder if there's a meaning to it

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    • So my guesses:

      Banica Concerto!!=The Graveyard Ending

      The Karma of Evil Is Unending=The Court Ending

      Song of Third Period=Based on that other screenshot mothy brought in, Michaela leading all the souls of the Third Period in subduing Ma

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    • I guess the Clockwork Lullaby series is finally coming to an end...

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    • Forgot to mention--is that Arte/Gretel and Pollo/Hansel on the cover? 'Cause they're looking ADORABLE!

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    • Idk but the Rin's dress reminds me a little bit of the alternate outfit Ichika designed for Riliane way back.

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    • It could just be your generic Rin and Len

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    • Just my opinion on how the song translations should be written:

      "Banica Concerto!!"

      "The Karma of Evil Will Not End" (admittedly this is me lining it up with how I've now chosen to translate the line as it repeats through the series)

      "Song of the Third Period"

      -Price

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    • The outfits are far more reminiscent of Arte and Pollo's designs than anything the Daughter of Evil twins wore imo, save for Rin's skirt being poofy.

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    • Considering the Evil's Theater memorabilia around them, the court stand right between them, and their darker clothes, I'd argue it's Hansel and Gretel (or "Arte" and "Pollo", same difference)

      If not, then maybe just Kagamine Rin and Len in fancy outfits as a sort of callback to the original Evils Theater album.

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    • Hopefully the songs area about the court and graveyard endings (and even possibly the fourth period/heavenly, maybe "song of the third period" is abt reminiscing the past world and moving on)

      if it's about court/graveyard it would definitely clear up some of our questions bc they were only barely touched upon even in the novel (for instance maybe it'll clarify if Maria has always been Irina or if adam/eve/irina/gammon live out a different life each loop)

      also is there any mention of a release date so far?

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    • August 10th is when it will be on sale in Ikebukuro, altough the date might be different for the Toranoana release

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    • So the toranoana page for the album is up https://ec.toranoana.shop/joshi/ec/item/040030653609/ All the old songs have been remastered, and given that the black and white picture isn't featured i'm guessing it was a preview of the album trailer. 01 is most likely cl the song. Also they appearently start shipping out the albums on toranoana on the 10th.


      Ichika also confirmed that the characters aren't any in particular, they're simply meant to be "Rin and Len as wind up dolls".

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    • Should someone add the new songs to the Clockwork Lullaby series page? I think it's a pretty safe bet that they're lullabies 10, 11, and 12.

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    • Maybe, though it is worth pointing out that Wordplay is absent from the tracklist. I think it could be possible however that Mothy combined it with Clockwork Lullaby, making that the meaning of Clockwork Lullaby's new subtitle.

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    • Clockwork Lullaby's new subtitle looks like it's derived from one of the lyrics in the song (it appears to be a clumsy translation of "言葉という鍵"), so it's not necessarily an indication of having been merged with Wordplay.

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    • There are other songs that have been dubbed clockwork lullabies but aren't featured on this album. I think he's just focusing on the primary ones for the sake of keeping the number of a clock.

      Also he's now announced that a video is being made. It's most likely the crossfade which usually comes up two weeks before the album is released, which would be today.

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    • it's also possible the clockworks 0, a, and r will be extra tracks, just like re_birthday and regret message were on the scap album

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    • in the gears picture that mothy posted, there are 12 lone gears, and 3 gears attached to black boxes attached to bigger gears 

      the lone gears might represent the songs that would come with the standard edition of the album, while the extra 3 might represent 3 songs that would come with a special edition of the album (A, R, and 0)



      (i probably sound dumb rn but i just felt like pointing out the details i noticed in the gears pic since nobody adressed them in this thread yet) 

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    • It's not a bad theory. Hopefully some of it will be cleared up when the trailer is released.

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    • Guys so mothy posted a picture of the characters who sing in (what I assume is) song of third Period and he has the vocaloids of the characters on a pictures with the characters names next to it. I'm sure there are more characters included but this is as far as the screenshot goes.

      SoTPchar

      The characters that can be seen are

      • Michaela
      • Gretel
      • Lukana
      • Clarith
      • Mei
      • Germaine
      • Gumillia
      • Mikulia
      • Kyle
      • Hänsel

      However it also includes Hel, Inukichi, Anne, and Nyoze who are revelaed to be represented by Luka, Len, Rin, and Gackpo respectively.

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    • This has already been brought up elsewhere, but it's a good idea to put it on the thread.

      I don't think mothy's saying that these characters are Luka, Len, Rin, and Gackpo characters necessarily (I mean Nyoze was already confirmed to once look identical to Gammon though so dkgks.) That's probably just what he picked so they can get some singing lines in the song.

      By the precedent we have with Levia and Behemo (technically not Vocaloid characters but sung by Rin and Len) that might not matter? But Levia and Behemo are odd too because they look like adult versions of their vocaloid (hypothetically) in addition to their clones being those vocaloids.

      This is just me rambling but I feel like it's an issue that should be discussed because a character being a "Vocaloid" character has also been a plot point in the past. That's the reason, for example, we kept Mariam listed as a MIRIAM character despite her being represented in song by MAYU. This is especially relevant because Anne is already represented by Sweet Ann.

      tdlr; don't think it's plot relevant that he chose those Vocaloids for those characters.

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    • Yeah imo there should be a distinction between "is represented by this character" and "is voiced by this character". It sounds like pedantry but it serves as a signal as to whether or not certain characters are meant to be seen in-universe as identical. Even with Levia and Behemo it's noted that the Kagamine characters are not exact duplicates, despite looking similar, which is referenced by Levia and Behemo not being Kagamines themselves.

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    • Yeah some characters there just aren't Vocaloid characters (like Inukichi) nor do they have very close Vocaloid lookalikes, or at least ones mothy has, so it seems he's just sort of compromising ("teen boy character? get Len to voice him. grown woman and there's already two Meikos? have Luka voice her.")

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    • More updates mothy uses the post card as his twitter background now

      Postcarbackground
      There's Gear, the spoon, Blonde Levilluka, Gammon, Lilith, Hänsel, Nemesis, Irina, Pink Levilluka, and Banica's sleves.

      He also posted about the album on his blog and remarked on how much he's improved since the first CL song.

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    • How odd that Lilith and Hansel are together and not Hansel and Gretel.

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    • I'm p sure it's because lilith and gammon represent capriccio farce while hansel and nemesis represent seven crimes and punishments :b

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    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m78s6J5c34w

      Remake of Clockwork Lullaby 

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    • MOTHY POSTED THE NEW VERSION OF CLOCKWORK LULLABY WITH A NEW PV (X)

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    • It's snowing, the singer is still Rin, and I swear I hear an arrangement of The Last Revolver in the beginning piano starting at 0:38

      I think someone owes someone else money or something /s

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    • Nice, it looks like we got a lot of symbolism and some new lyrics! I'm sure there's a lot of ways to dissect the when and where the gears come onscreen. The singing starts around the point of Heartbeat Clocktower, example. 

      I guess at some point we're going to have to discuss how we treat the Key of Word remake on the Clockwork Lullaby song page. < <

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    • Scarletta Agni wrote:
      It's snowing, the singer is still Rin, and I swear I hear an arrangement of The Last Revolver in the beginning piano starting at 0:38

      I think someone owes someone else money or something /s

      I know you're talking about me so let me clarify some things for you:

      • I never had an issue with the theory that Levia was singing this song. I never had an issue with any theories about who was singing it (at least not that I remember.) It was about Full Moon Laboratory only (and Wordplay maybe but eonly with the assumption they're both sung by the same person). Which this isn't confirmed to be sung by the same person as Clockwork Lullaby (especially this late in the game when mothy is retconning old song things.) So like, yeah.
      • In fact, I think it would be pretty fitting if this song was sung by Levia, since it seems to be an image song for the Clockwork Lullaby Series as a whole and there's few other characters who have seen the whole history of Evillious like she has.
      • Outside of both being piano pieces I... can't hear The Last Revolver at all, arrangement or otherwise. I'm sure you'll call me deaf, but I honestly just can't hear it.
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    • here's a really rough translation of the additional line in key of word:

      “It looks like it says; “A song that shows the time as 12 Scattered keyword(s); Peeking into Pandora’s box; The search was continuing for proof of existence (sonzai shoumei like in Tokyo teddy bear; In the end, the me in the middle of the miniature garden; (This line is shaky) What kind of person also didn’t exist (de mo nakatta)”

      I'd prefer to get a more solid transation from price before we assume anything for certain, but it seems to imply that the singer is either ma or irina

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    • Price's Clockwork Lullaby translation has them listed now:

      Twelve songs that denote time

      Scattered keywords

      I peeked into Pandora’s box

      And continued to search for proof of my existence

      In the end, I of the miniature garden

      Wasn’t anyone


      It does sound like it's supposed to be either Irina or Ma speaking. The "searching for proof of my existence" part is a goal that's directly attributed to Ma, but Irina is also "the miniature garden girl" (maybe Ma could claim she's that too? Idk if we'll get an explanation about what the miniature garden girl title comes from.)

      Apparently Irina also has a crisis of "what am I" during the Pierrot novel that's mentioned in the Heavenly novel, so take that as you will.

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    • another thing that's worth noting: the gear in the pv that's marked with 1 is connected to 2 and 5. implying that clockwork lullaby is connected to miniature garden girl and chrono story. which seems to lean more in favor of it being about irina

      it's also connected to re_birthday, which could be in reference to the re_birthday spell setting off the court ending

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    • Posting the tracklist here, for easy reference in interpreting the new Clockwork Lullaby PV:

      1. Clockwork Lullaby
      2. Miniature Garden Girl
      3. Re_birthday
      4. Heartbeat Clocktower
      5. Chrono Story
      6. Capriccio Farce
      7. Seven Crimes and Punishments
      8. The Song I Heard Somewhere
      9. Swear an Oath on that Bridge
      10. Banica Concerto!!
      11. The Karma of Evil Will Not End
      12. Song of the Third Period
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    • Grabbed this screenshot from the PV.

      CLRemakeScreenshot

      Now, for my interpretations:

      • The gear labelled III-2 seems to represent the Court ending, since it's a repeat of the Third Period. It's connected to a black box saying "NO GOD" - maybe because all the gods moved to the Fourth Period? Gears 2, 8 and 11 connect to it, with the first two corresponding to songs about Irina.
      • The gear labelled III' seems to be the Graveyard ending. Gears 7 and 10 are connected to it, and both songs feature Banica. Also worth noting: in math, an apostrophe denotes the complement of a set, so III' could be a reference to Banica being in a world parallel to the Third Period. I don't know what "WITH HIM AND 'HER'" means, so I'm not touching on that.
      • The gear labelled IV seems to be the Heavenly ending, since it created the Fourth Period. The black box labelled "NO UTOPIA" may be a reference to how it's not perfect, something the narration in the Heavenly novel alluded to. Gears 5, 9 and 12 connect to it, with the first two corresponding to songs about Elluka and her quest.
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    • the big gear named III - 2 might refer to the third period repeating in the court end, due to being attached directly to a song attached to Irina songs, and is also attached to the theater songs

      the one named III' has the apostrophe to probably imply that its somewhere that is not the third period (its a math pun, specifically abt Set Theory, likely)

      and then that kinda leaves the IV gear in the spot of being the Fourth Period from the Hellish Heavenly end, as its attached to song of 3rd period which is attached to No Utopia, which is how the 4th period was described, not a utopia. its also attached to Swear An Oath On That Bridge, maybe as a reference to the fact that Nemesis only helped when reminded of being Elluka in the novel and because of the fourth period ending being named "Hellish Heavenly end" it might be a reference to Elluka being Levia aka the original MotHellishY making her related to the ending bc of the "Hellish" part of its name

      also im writing this at 6am and i didnt sleep yet so im sorry if there is some nonsense in there

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    • oh greek's last message didnt appear for me at first sishshysysv

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    • i think "With Him and HER" might be a pun on Pollo and Arte being a pair of a male and a female who are both also HERs

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    • Anyone else think that perphaps the new lyrics are just meta instead of literal? Like, they could be Mothy acknowledging that the Mysterious Rin isn't one specific character, even if he origianlly intended her to be someone, or something like that.

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    • I don't think he would have put in the "I of the miniature garden" in that case, though.

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    • about abdul's point about "with him and her"

      in the actual screenshot "her" has a box around it while "him" doesn't. whatever that's implying (and my mind immediately goes to either HERS or MA but that's not necessarily the case) it seems to be deliberately pointing out that there's a difference between those two characters. so pointing out that arte and pollo are both hers kind of defeats the point doesn't it? if anything it makes me think that it isn't referring to those two

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    • Well on the post card both the "Rin" from this song and Re birthday's "Len" are present. They might be Rin and Len in the fourth period. Or the singer could be Irrgular Eve cause she talks about sleep and such.

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    • I don't think we can assume that it's about eve just because it mentions sleep the song was written long before margarita was concieved as a character, and nemesis, a character who ultimately has nothing to do with eve, also mentions sleep specifically as a metaphor for death. it seems to be a theme rather than character specific

      and rin and len on the fourth period are, presumably, normal kids? at the very least rin doesn't appear to have any overt memeories of her past life in 10 minute love. it also just wouldn't make much sense for the characters :b

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    • oh also ! I was thinking that for the song page, we could treat the key of word edition as it's own separate entity by giving it it's own page, and then treat the original version like a non-canon song? or at least mention that it's been retconned by the newer version (with a link to the new song page)

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    • Well I think we discussed this before in that if there's a significat arrangement it will get it's own tab (Like velvet mix)

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    • Before we make any major changes, let's wait for the album booklet to be translated first so we get a context of the new lyrics. Although personally, I don't think a separate page is necessary unless the new lyrics completely retcon the song.

      Mistress, regarding your idea, the differences in arrangement are already covered in the trivia. If a song has multiple PVs (Servant of Evil is the only one I can think of) then why not just have another tab in the Gallery, like what we're already doing?

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    • Some arrangements like Recollective Musicbox could flood the page with information. Keeping them in separate pages is better. (and you could also give them their own links)

      Anyway I was hoping I could be allowed to work on the album page. I know I haven't been active recently but I was going through some issues that are now sorted out, so I'd be glad to get back to work.

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    • I proposed having another Lyrics section for Recollective Musicbox, which I don't think would flood the page. I also don't think this is the case for the other songs with a lot of rearranges, since Daughter of Evil and Servant of Evil, the most rearranged songs in EC, have pages that aren't flooded.

      As for the CL album page, feel free to make a draft.

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    • Karma of Evil Will Not End sounds really strange and I can't wait to hear the full thing. All the songs sound pretty good. I found it strange that Gammon is in the image yet doesn't represent a song or just represents Caprrico Farce and wasn't shown in the crossfade for whatever reason. 

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    • Question, how would people feel about using the completed set of gears at the end of the PV as the image for the Clockwork Lullaby series?

      I meant to post this before the crossfade was posted

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    • I'm in favor

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    • I love how Banica Concerto sounds like a reprise of EFC! Banica is totally Queen of the Multiverse now and no one can tell me otherwise!

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    • That would be good Octo! Although as an alternate suggestion you could use the art of the characters that's gonna be released with the album? iirc the it's not out yet so we might have to wait a little bit for it but that would show more of the actual stories of the song ig. up to you in the end

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    • If I am correct, the sentence that appears at the beginning of the crossfade seems to translate to something like, "...such things, there had been no need/desire to create them."

      Something interesting I also noticed that might be useful for pondering if someone hasn't already pointed it out is that right before the end of the crossfade, a couple of words pop up in the top-right corner. They seem to translate to "Origin, Younger Sister/Sister-In-Law, Black Box, Gear, Dragon, Abnormality/Accident;" in the bottom left corner then also appears to be "Deadly Sins, Red Cat, Relief/Rescue, Evil Food, Cycle/Samsara, Graduation"

      I'd personally wait for someone more experienced in Japanese like Price's opinion on that first tho.

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    • I just want to know why, of all things, a couple toy horses were chosen to represent "The Karma of Evil Will Not End"

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    • Maybe it's because of how Mothy uses Merry-go-rounds to symbolise cycles, like how Maria Moonlit, a reverse-reborn Irina after the Court Ending, was also known as Madame Alice Merry-go-round.

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    • These are all just guesswork, but:

      Faritate, I think the words correspond to the twelve songs. For example, "Gear" would correspond to Heartbeat Clocktower.

      As for the toy horses, I think they're supposed to be part of a carousel (a reference to the song Madam Merry-Go-Round).

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    • I agree with that Greek. To go fully in depth with that:

      Origin: Clockwork Lullaby, probably in reference to the beginning of the CL series or maybe even Evillious in chronological order.

      Younger Sister/Sister-in-law: Miniature Garden Girl, as Michelle was Nemesis' younger sister.

      Black-Box: Re_birthday, which I feel like fits with my theory I made over on the Theories board about how Re_birthday is Allen thinking over his life while in Sickle's blackbox.

      Gear: Heartbeat Clocktower, as Greek pointed out due to Gear being the song's singer.

      Dragon: Chrono Story, because Elluka Clockworker is actually Levia-Behemo, the twin dragon, reborn in Elluka Chirclatia's body.

      Abnormality/Accident: Since it seems to be in order, Capriccio Farce; I think this is because the events of the song are... quite abnormal honestly.

      Deadly Sins: Seven Crimes and Punishments, as it is a summary of the whole Seven Deadly Sins series.

      Red Cat: The Song I Heard Somewhere, as Irina, the centeral character of the song, is reborn into a plush red cat.

      Relief/Rescue: Swear an Oath on that Bridge, maybe because this is about one of Elluka's few moments of relief, at least as I interpreted.

      Evil Food: Banica Concerto!! as it is almost certainly about Master of the Graveyard, AKA Evil Food Eater Banica Conchita

      Cycle/Samsara: The Karma of Evil Will Not End, as it seems to be about the Court Ending, in which several characters are reverse-reborn back in time.

      Graduation: Song of Third Period, as it seems to be about Michelle and the rest of the Third Period as they graduate to the Fourth Period.

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    • I always thought that "Younger Sister/Sister-in-law" corresponds to Miniature Garden Girl because the Master of the Court's true identity is Irina, who's called "younger sister-in-law" a lot (in relation to Elluka).

      As for the eleventh word (輪廻), it does show up on Jisho as both "Samsara" (a concept in Indian religions) and "Reincarnation".

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    • Nemesis is younger than Michelle, actually. I think it's true either way, whether you apply it to Irina herself or her as "Michelle", with both meanings.

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    • Octofan wrote: Question, how would people feel about using the completed set of gears at the end of the PV as the image for the Clockwork Lullaby series?

      I think it's a great idea since those gears accurately portray the gear element of the lullaby, how all the little pieces combined set in motion the endings, and how they are both the cause and consequence of one another

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    • Danytaly wrote:

      Octofan wrote: Question, how would people feel about using the completed set of gears at the end of the PV as the image for the Clockwork Lullaby series?

      I am for it!

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    • Lemmings has posted his translation of the text in the crossfade video, as well as his guesswork of the new songs' lyrics.

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    • Well, I have a theory, that Elluka Chirclatia is the one who sings Clockwork Lullaby.
      The lyrics of Clockwork Lullaby and the lyrics of Catastrophe have some parallels. Rin sings some phrases that also sings Elluka (Elluka, not Levia/Levilluka).
      "Only one song of truth", "Lu li la lu li la, can this lullaby heal your heart, I wonder?" How we remember, Elluka can heal HER and did it with Kiril.
      "Proof of my existence". There were Levilluka and Elluka 'Ma' Clockworker, but the both of them wasn't true Elluka.
      And Elluka Chirclatia is also similar to Rin (blue eyes, blonde hair).
      Phrase about miniature garden... Well, It's difficult to relate.
      But It would be great if mothy did not forget about this character completely. 

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    • At this point the only theory I can believe is that the song is Ma or Irina. I'm leaning more towards Ma or perhaps it is both of them. Maybe mothy has some plot twist about Ma's existence before Duel of Merrigod Plataeu. 

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    • Elluka Chirclatia doesn't sing any of those phrases that you're claiming she does.

      Edit: I see what phrases you mean now, my bad. I thought you'd been claiming that she sung the lines you quoted. 

      "Looking for proof of my existence" means she's looking for proof she exists, I don't see the connection with people pretending to be her. Elluka Chirclatia presumably has a soul, and by Ma's standards that alone is proof of her own existence.

      I want to see Chirclatia again too, but all the same. Her current canon history doesn't line up with the more definite lyrics.

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    • I lean toward Irina, because "I of the miniature garden" has direct connection to one person and one person alone. You could argue MA from a sideways point of view, but even Irina has a sort of identity crisis and the "proof of my existence" may even refer to her existence as who she thought she was instead of what she was made to be: basically a walking HERS dispenser.

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    • I would still say that "proof of my existence" is not an ambiguous line like that, and I don't think we can apply it to issues of an identity crisis. "I of the miniature garden" is definitely about Irina, yes, but "proof of my existence" is most certainly about Ma. She is the only character that had a story arc about finding something to confirm that she exists, and she is the only character who really needed it because she didn't even have a soul.

      Nobody has really touched the whole line about "Pandora's box" yet. Does that sound like it's referencing anybody in particular?

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    • The Black Box devices are likened to Pandora's box in the narration of the Heavenly novel, so maybe the singer used a Black Box to confirm their existence? There also appear to be Black Boxes in the PV.

      On a more general note, Pandora's box is said to contain all the evils in the world, so I think the singer was exposed to things that were evil in their search for a proof of existence.

      Also, just a wild guess, but what if the CL singer is one of Maria's twin children?

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    • I could see it possibly being one of Maria's kids because of the Miniature Garden line and it's relation to Irina. I'm also wondering if "Miniature Garden" is gonna be revealed to have an actual deeper meaning than just some weird title referring to cute tiny fake gardens. Mainly because of it's use in both MotHY and now this song after so many years of not really being used even in songs that Court herself was featured in. 

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    • Holy shit The Karma of Evil Will Not End sounds so broken. To me it sounds like it could be one of mothy's biggest tearjerkers

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    • Regarding the title of “Miniature Garden Girl”, user Lemmings has the following insight: it may be related to the concept of miniaturization in Japanese gardening. Just as in a garden, a rock can be a mountain, a doll can be a daughter.

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    • I don't know if this is the right place to mention this, but the "News" section of the Home Page hasn't been updated since the release of Master of the Heavenly Yard. Should the  announcement of this album be added in there? 

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    • Oops, yeah. Thanks for the reminder, anon.

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    • I've done all that can be done for the album page right now. Also can i suggest we call 11 something else like the karma of evil is unending or The karma of evil will never end. "Not" just seems like such a weak word.

      On another note I managed to get some lyrics of the new lullabies from the crossfade

      10

      映画館

      空を進め目指すものはまだ見ぬ新たな悪食


      さあこの舌に未知なる刺激を

      探究せよまだ見ぬ地

      喰らい尽くせこの世の全て

      これこそが私のコンチェルト


      --theater

      Whilst crossing the sky, I aim for the new evil food I can't yet see


      Now let's search this unseen land

      For pleasures unknown to my tongue

      Completely devour everything in this world

      This is my Concerto

      11

      全て終わり、そして始まり

      早すぎた Re_birthday

      嗚呼だけど悪の因果は終わらない


      Everything ends, and begins

      The rushed Re_birthday

      Aah, however, the karma of evil never ends

      12


      胸の中高鳴る鼓動 僕らのぜんまいは止まらない


      るりらるりらるりらるりらこの唄声が

      るりらるりらるりらるりら響く限り

      眠りは覚め夢はきっと現実になる

      開く明日への扉


      桜舞う中、大地踏みしめ


      The beating of our hearts in our chests, our Clockwork, will never end.


      Lu li la lu li la, lu li la lu li la, as long as this singing voice

      Lu li la lu li la, lu li la lu li la, keeps on resounding

      The dreams we awaken from will surely be granted

      Let's open the gates to tomorrow


      Amongst a flurry of cherry blossoms, we walk on the ground


      In 11, there's Kaito and a higher pitched Miku singing back up, no doubt that's irregular Adam and Eve.

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote: Also can i suggest we call 11 something else like the karma of evil is unending or The karma of evil will never end. "Not" just seems like such a weak word.

      You're going to need a more solid basis for your suggestion than that. We all agreed in the Names Retranslation thread that we're not changing translations based on what "feels better".

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    • So I think I've finished the album page and I've also finally finished the characters sections for the SGaP characters. Should I hold off posting the album page until tomorrow and only post the characters?

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    • Go ahead with the Screws, Gears and Pride characters - just add them to the Clockwork Lullaby minor characters list. As for the album, it's best to post it tomorrow when it's actually released.

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    • I’m not sure where to ask this, but is there a way to buy this album overseas somehow?

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    • Pick a proxy service and have them order the album from Toranoana for you. I use Whiterabbitexpress personally, but there are lots of other Japanese proxy services.

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    • So can I post the album page?

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    • Go ahead.

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    • Ok some someone posted a piece of "Karma of Evil" on twitter.



      In the ending of the song Irregular Adam and Eve are singing something unintelligeble with distorted music but when reversed it becomes Prophet merry go round with the twins saying, "Alice, Irina, I.R. AB-CIR, Abyss, Julia, doll". And when the beginning is reversed it becomes the intro of project ma.

      It seems atleast to me like Irina is stuck in an eternal loop, cursed to be forever reborn into herself, locked out of the afterlife for all eternity.

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    • So where lonk to the album?

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    • > link

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    • I don't think maria being reborn as irina matches up with the timeline? irina was created in BT 4, while maria first started hearing levia and behemo in BT 5

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    • It’s a pretty farfetched theory but it could’ve been possible that Irina was made using Maria/Alice cells.

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    • That’s not impossible, seeing how Seth was involved in taking Maria away and making her a puppet ruler, not to mention Irina can’t be fully made from Seth’s cells.

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    • If Irina was made with Maria's cells, then Irina would be a clone of Maria, not Maria reborn. Which means that Irina reincarnated into someone different from herself and would theoretically pass on into the Fourth Period as Maria.

      It's too soon to say what that part of the song means, especially when as Tobimisa pointed out the timeline doesn't add up. No matter how you fudge it, Maria and Irina exist at the same time.

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    • Personal thought is that it could be a list of Irina's incarnations, with Maria being placed before Irina because if this is a stable time loop, then Maria is simply older than Irina. And it might not necessarily mean Maria proceeded to become Irina.

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    • Yeah. I don't think it's been established as a rule that two instances of the same spirit data cannot coexist, so for all we know, it's a-okay for Irina and Maria to coexist despite having the same spirit data.

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    • Well since Maria was most likely disposed of after she had the prophecy I don't see why Seth couldn't use her to make Irina one year later. Tobi I think you forgot that BT is counted in reverse.

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    • Yeah, BT is reversed and while it's said Maria instated the calendar, I don't recall anything saying anyone actually saw her and it could very well be that the Senate made it seem like she hadn't disappeared at all because that could cause a lot of problems. And I think honestly that's the biggest thing for why a lot of people are saying that Maria couldn't have incarnated into Irina?

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    • Tobimisa wrote:
      I don't think maria being reborn as irina matches up with the timeline?

      irina was created in BT 4, while maria first started hearing levia and behemo in BT 5

      The BT is counted in reverse. 

      Alice Merry-Go-Round predicted the destruction of Levianta (and Project MA is established) in BT 5, this is one year before Irina's birth (BT 4). 

      Taking into account that Project MA offers the position of queen, Maria probably has disappeared (or was disposed) shortly after her prophecy

      We don't know how much time need Seth to create a new incarnation for Maria (as Iria), but it's likelyvhe had enough time. 

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    • Please look at my attempt to descipher the Key Of Word PV.


      Kowpvattempt
      MGG-CL (light blue) - They both talk bout being in a miniture garden, that's on relation I could come up with now

      CL-RB (yellow) - They are meant to mirror each other, that much i understand with their pvs. (in RB the boy mentiones that new lyrics will be added to the song he hears maybe those new lyrics are the ones in key of word)

      MGG-HC (dark blue) - Adam Moonlit has to keep the Master of the Court alive

      CL-CS (orange) - Not sure here, but my best guess is has to do the Gear with the numbers in the end of CS' PV

      CS-SCaP (violet) - CS is about the start of the sins and SCaP is about the end of their story.

      CS-SaOoTB (beige) - Elluka songs.

      BC-CF (brown) - focuses on the theater but features Banica after having become MotG. The rebuilt theater was later used by her in the new world.

      BC-SCaP (vine red) - SCaP talk about Banica's gluttonous ambition and in BC it's finally come true.

      TSiHS-MGG (pink) - Irina is the soul inside the doll.

      TSIHS-TKoEwNE (lime) - Irina's future, or would that be past?

      SaOoTB-SoTP (jean blue) - All I could think of was that one is a song set in the pride era and the other is lead by a characters from that story arc.

      RB-SoTP-IV (white) - I've heard some people talking about it ebing Allen in the box but I can't confirm that it's so. But if it is, Re_birthday and Song of Third Period are about moving on to the fourth period. It's no utopia, but it's way better than the current world.

      BC-III' (red) - Banica gets her grave yard ending realized and she gets to go on an adventure search for food with Hänsel and Gretel, two "HER"s.

      TKoEwnE-III-2 (green) The court ending and Maria's life.

      Purple - Gear and the theater play important parts in the ending, and now there are no gods as they've moved on the the fourth period.



      There's also another interesting thing about the reveal of two gears, 07 first come in a seven small gears that meld together to form 07 (SCaP), a nice little nod to how in HeartC the sinners are represented by gears, but now they're all together so the seventh gear is included.

      08 tries to connect to 05 but ends up connecting to 02 instead, no doubt this is meant to symbolize Irina attempting to posses Elluka but ending up in the doll in the end.

      I couldn't notice any similarity between the discolored gears' songs right now but if anyone has a theory feel free to lay it out.

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    • The point still stands, Anon. Maria established the EC calendar well after Irina was born.

      Edit: Didn't see the other anon; oh well I guess. We'll see what the song actually says.

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    • She supposedly did so well after Irina was born--which I already addressed, Octo. :V (It's early, I won't fault you.) Again: this is the Senate that allowed a couple of non-virgins in their project when that was supposedly a Big Thing they needed to create a successful MA, allowed Ly Li in despite not meeting requirements, allowed in a sixteen-year-old with HERS, allowed in a few members of a terrorist group that directly opposed the project, and controlled Maria like a puppet on a string. The set-up is there for her to be disposed of and them to credit her with the calendar after she's already dead to make it seem there's nothing amiss. Or she could even have declared at her vision's decree that a new calendar would be made on the successful birth of the twins.

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    • Yeah. Like I said, I didn't see your reply.

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    • @Mistress Regarding the connection between "Clockwork Lullaby" and "Re_Birthday", there's also these lyrics:

      Clockwork Lullaby: "Lu li la, lu li la, the sound of this lullaby/Does it heal your heart?"

      Re_Birthday: "The only thing that can heal my heart now/Is the lullaby I hear in the dark"

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    • Swear an Oath on that Bridge and Song of the Third Period is also a Friendship song, so thematically they fit together too judging by the opening of the latter. Although I don't recall if Levia/Nemesis was involved in the singing of that Clockwork Lullaby specifically.

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    • CJCroen you seem to have blended together a few different lines in the song lol

      The point still stands but it's more like "Only this singing voice/That I hear from somewhere heals me"

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    • Ah, thank you for the correction ^_^

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    • Is anyone gonna here gonna be able to get hold of the album?

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    • I've ordered one. Toranoana says it'll be shipping the albums sometimes this week and after that the international shipping usually takes a few days, so hopefully I'll have it by the weekend/next week. I'll do the usual scanning and will upload the songs somewhere.

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    • I had heard toranoana had some problems with shipping that album in particular, not sure why but hopefully it won't be too bad.

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    • Appearently people who have the album are discussing the things they've read and one of them seem to imply Kiril is the creator of the current lullaby (meaning the lu li la as oppsed to lan la lu)

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    • Ok some posted some major stuff about the album

      It is about Kiril and Elluka

      Kiril became "the drifter of time" and traveled to a place known as Angolmois (I assume this is in the Heavenly yard) (This is the name of a country Nostradamus predicted would become the birth place of "the great king of terror")

      There he met the real Elluka and Kiril then sends a mail to TALOS saying he will be continuing to travel, bringing his wife along with him, meaning the two finally married.

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    • This is all interesting Misstress, but until we actually have a source we can verify ourselves there's not a lot we can do with this information.

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    • Ok but did we take not of mothy's statement that the bookelt would include a stories about people who relate to the songs, written in parallel to the lyrics? Because he's absolutely said that.

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    • You mean Kiril FINALLY gets his happy ending? :D

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    • Can you provide a link to mothy's statement, Mistress?

      I'd like it if everyone gave links (or at least screenshots) of the information they share on here.

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    • It's on his twitter https://twitter.com/mothy_akuno/status/1022001922801377280

      According to Price, he says that he wrote a story, presumably in segments, about one person (not persons plural), in conjunction with the songs in the booklet. (Wording mine)

      It's probably Kiril, yeah.

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    • Well one japanese twitter user says that she thinks the 13th story is about Gammon. Or maybe there a character called "the 13th" and I misunderstood

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    • Again, can you provide a link or a screenshot at least?

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    • Screen shot and link https://fusetter.com/tw/ddOBn#all

      13thgammon



      Btw appearenly there's a Daughter of Evil fanfiction contest going on. The prize is merch and a review by mothy. I'm not sure if there's a promise that the story will become canon if it's good enough.

      http://blog.piapro.net/2018/08/f1808161-1.html https://piapro.jp/pages/official_collabo/harper01/detail

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    • It looks to me like she's asking if Gammon's in it, not saying he is. But then the sentence is the slightest bit difficult to parse. What context is this in?

      As for the second thing, it calls it a collaboration but I don't see any mention of the short story that wins becoming canon or not.

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    • I'm not even sure what context it is.

      I got some good and bad news.

      Good news, found the booklet transcribed

      Bad news, it's chinese

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    • ...That's a translation, not a transcription.

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    • Yeah yeah but anyway, I have a cousin who has studied chinese and she helped me to atleast make out that the series isn't over.

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    • the booklet seems to start with a message from Sickle to Kiril, then for every song we have Kiril's thoughts on it, and at the end there's a reply from Kiril to Sickle 

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    • What's weird is that they use "Year" instead of "EC". TALOS sends his message to Kiril "Year 1001"

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    • It's good to have this info, but having scans of the original Japanese booklet (and not a fan-translated Chinese translation) to verify this, or access to the songs, would be really great. As it is now, this is not stuff we can put up on the articles.

      I know Toranoa had some shipping issues so that might be why it doesn't seem people have access to the album yet. Hopefully whatever it was got resolved or will be soon.

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    • I don't think it's that weird to call it Year 1001. Evillious is gone why would they continue to denote time using the Evillious Calender?

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    • Maybe it's like how BC and AD have been switched to BCE and CE in most history circles but they're basically still the same dates. > >

      Either way, I like the implication that the Fourth Period Re_Birthday took a little while if Kiril and Elluka, at least, are bopping around a year after the world ended (and that the years haven't reset entirely yet.)

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    • Mistress, would it be possible to post pictures of the booklet online somewhere? I don’t have a wikia account, but I can read Chinese, so I am interested in seeing said translation.

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    • You misunderstand--assuming she's referring to the one on baidu (this one), this is a fan translation uploaded online. The original booklet would still be in Japanese.

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    • I know it’s not the original, but I just wanted to see out of curiosity. Thanks for the link, though.

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    • It is the original. That's what I'm saying. There is no Chinese booklet. The actual booklet itself, the booklet you were asking for pictures of, is in Japanese. The translation is solely online on that forum.

      It's not a big deal I just wanted to clarify what I was saying.

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    • While I did google translate it from the Chinese translations the starting message from TALOS said that some people decided to stay in the 3rd period after the Re_Brithday  so it makes sense that there still using the EC calendar. (again I did machine translate this don’t take this info to seriously)

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    • That is a repost of the original translation but yes that is the one i was talking about

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    • What I meant earlier by that the series isn't over is that Kiril calls Talos a liar becuase he realizes that there aren't just 12 songs (this must be where Wordplay, Screw, Gear, and Pride, and Recollective Musicbox comes in.)

      Also they use the word "VOCALOID" in-universe now, not sure what context though. I wonder if the whole "reborn as vocaloid" theory is becoming valid.

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    • About Rin character next to Hansel (on the the postcard), could she be Gretel? Their pose are mirror to each other, and Gretel used to use this body before gave it to Lilith. 

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    • According to how they're arranged and the order the lullabies are in, unless I'm mistaken her place in the shot is about Capriccio Farce. The person wearing that outfit in Capriccio Farce is Waiter (and it seems unlikely Gretel dressed like that when she had the body). His is about Seven Crimes and Punishments. The person wearing that outfit in Seven Crimes and Punishments is Hansel.

      Seems clear cut to me that it's Hansel and Waiter, not Hansel and Gretel.

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    • I know machine translation isn't reliable, but it seems Irina is Eve's mother (not only Adam's mother). I guess thus this has sense.

      Also, I remember that Irregular Eve called Irina her mother in Mater of Heavenly Yard novel. I wonder if this was just because she was the mother of her Irregular's body or she had memories.

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    • irina, at that point, was inhabiting the theater itself, I don't think eve would have been able to recognize her like that :b

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    • Tobimisa wrote: irina, at that point, was inhabiting the theater itself, I don't think eve would have been able to recognize her like that :b

      It's possible that Irregular Eve call her mother just because Irina is the mother of her new identity (also, she and Irregular Adam have little memories of their past).

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    • ...In Pierrot's novel... I remember that Eve called Irina "mother". Not real Eve, but Elluka trying to be part of Pere Noel.

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    • She was saying that in the sense that Irina created the Clockworker's Doll, not that she's Eve's mother.

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    • Yeah, I know it, but it's weird to call her mother by that.

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    • You can say that but it's not evidence that Irina is Eve's mother, is the point, it is, in context, about how she's the one who made the Clockworker's doll. Either Irina herself is Eve's mother (which doesn't work from the timeline) or Maria (who, in this theory, later becomes Irina) is her mother, and how would Eve recognize her from that?

      Let's not quibble over theories that come from a Google translation, though. It sounds like some people are finally starting to get their copies of the album, so we should have some sources soon.

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    • Actually, I think that Maria is Eve's mother, yeah, but I don't believe that she becomes Irina. But I said that about Pierrot's novel because ir can work xD.

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    • I don't think Maria is Eve's mother either (if you meant Eve Moonlit and not Irregular Eve.) Eve is an Elphe from a well-known clan with the inherited abilities of that clan. To say that Maria is her mother is to throw all of that out and make the Zvezda connection to Held a worthless trivia point.

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    • If the translation in the Baidu is correct, Kiril seems to state that Irina (as Alice) was the mother of Adam and Eve,

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    • Question: Is it possible to translate the japanese characters of "The Karma of Evil Will Not End" as "The Neverending Karma of Evil"? If not, why? (I just want to ask.)

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    • judging from translations based on both the chinese translation and the spanish translation the line that drops the title is "but this karma of evil will not end."

      your suggestion wouldn't make sense grammatically in the context of the song. though it could be tweaked to fit I suppose, but at that point it'd be just as wordy as the current title :b

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    • Not sure if anyone has already caught this, but someone seems to have uploaded The Karma of Evil Will Not End.



      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WYDnTPwWm4

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    • I seem to have underestimated how creepy this song would be. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it stated that Maria had twins and one of the were drowned in a river? Maria could've tried to flee with Adam and Eve but Eve got drowned and became reborn as Eve Zvezda, as she's a year younger than Adam.

      I managed to get the lyrics down and have done a page for the song, would it be ok to post it or does it need work?

      Another thing I'm thinking about is, should Maria, MotC, and Irina all be seen as the same person? In the song, "Maria" states that she has seen it all with "her own eyes" and in the judgement novel, MotC knows that her true identity is Irina.

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    • I don't think we should post the page until price's translation comes out

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    • Especially since you filled the lyrics with typos.

      But also, no. MotC may know a few things like her name and fire ability but clearly does not know much else given her extreme naivety and drastic change in behavior (she didn't recognize Sickle, for instance, even though as Irina she up and glared at him.) She is likened to a child and Heavenly describes MotC as "being a doll from the moment she was born," meaning that the novels consider her different from Irina as well.

      We don't know the nature of the loop and so we cannot say if Maria was always this way or not, and just because she shows awareness in a vague song does not mean that this carries over to her actual character (for example, Venomania seemed to remember his ugly face in the song but this was clearly retconned in the novel.)

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    • Someone uploaded Banica Concerto!! Notable are the callbacks to both EFEC and Master of the Graveyard. There are lines from Kiyoteru (who I’m guessing represents Lich) and, for some reason, Miku.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYV20NzFv3w

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    • I'm hearing deep voices too, you think that's Eater???

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    • That Miku might be the "HER" in the text of Key of Word.  And "Him" is obviously Seth already.

      Part of me thinking it might be Gumillia, but that voice is still more like Miku than GUMI.

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    • And there is also Song of the Third Period

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    • I never intended to use my own translation, i just kept it as a note to myself while describing the plot. I've already started on pages for the other two songs aswell. I figured Eve could use a page aswell.

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    • So do you think once the articles come out for CL 10-12 should we put them chronologically between Heavenly Yard and Ten Minute.

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    • That would probably only work for Song of Third Period

      Since Banica's song takes place in another world there wouldn't be another after unless another song about her is released.

      I put Queen of the glass after Karma of Evil since it's about time repeating itself.

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    • Yeah, that makes sense, anon. But let's wait until Price translates the lyrics so we can make an informed decision.

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    • im like, 90% sure i also hear a Mikuo voice in Banica Concerto after the Hai part i think that might be Lich

      tho there's also another vocaloid with their GEN setting way too high (making them sing much deeper than their actual pitch) to the point that i cant recognize it anymore and i think that might be Eater

      im not sure where Kiyoteru comes in and im pretty sure mothy doesnt state the names of the vocaloids used in the album booklet

      Kiyoteru has a very distinct accent that makes him very easily recognizable (unless he might be the heavily edited Eater voice but im not sure abt that) 

      another edit: hhhh im so sorry for editing this way too much im not used to wikia so things keep ending up weirdly spaced with me bc its weird when showing things on my phone

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    • The Miku is likely the ship's onboard computer or something, given what she says and the kind of  vocal distortion she has.

      Misstress, don't put Queen of the Glass after Karma of Evil. We don't really know how the loops work--it's possible that Glass takes place in the first loop, before Irina is in the reset world. And even if it doesn't, it still takes place chronologically at the beginning of the series.

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    • Ok.

      It would make sense for Michaela's brother to be voiced by a Mikuo.

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    • In The Song Of Third Period, I'm about 99% sure Luka and Gumi are singing together at one point. Could it be Elluka and Gumillia?

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    • Probably not, since Elluka is Nemesis at the point the song is taking place. (Or when I assume it's taking place < <)

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    • if it's Luka and Gumi it's probably Lukana and Gumina

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    • It seems Banica's "Karma Houdini" status didn't last as long as I assumed. I'm not 100% on the details, but it seems like the Neo Black Box exploded, possibly killing Arte, Pollo, Lich and Eater in the process, while Banica survives and ends up stranded in another world.

      Also, I'm convinced that the point where Gumi and Gakupo are singing together in "Song of the Fourth Period" is supposed to be Nemesis and Nyoze and no one can tell me otherwise.

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    • I don't think it's implied that the others died, since the line immediately after the one where the ship is breaking down is "We've found the target; Full speed ahead!" and the last verse has a line that's like "Together with our friends and also with 'him'"

      granted it's translated from either the chinese or spanish translation so I wouldn't use it as an outright translation on the wikia, but I don't think this could be mistranslated so badly that it'd imply that the rest are still alive when they aren't

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    • If you're just going by the lyrics no, it didn't explode. We know from the book that it survives the maiden voyage. That was the whole part in the epilogue where they end up in a new world and prepare to cook some giants. Besides, the last stanza kind of makes a point to say that Banica's alongside her friends at the end.

      Edit: Tobimisa got to it first > >

      Yeah Price has a tentative (romaji-based) translation that's pretty similar to that.

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    • i edited some parts in Banica Concerto to figure out the edited singers https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kHvJzDnpcYF8XAWSpV2K6LEbzSdTf_HP/view?usp=drivesdk looks like both Lich and Eater are voiced by Meiko

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    • Will Lich and Eater just have Meiko added as their vocaloid on their pages? We have a precedent with Levia and Behemo being added even though they are only vocally represented by Rin and Len and Mothy hasn't assigned Lich and Eater actual deravatives they represent.

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    • We had this discussion already when the characters and their corresponding Vocaloids were leaked for Song of the Third Period and very few people seemed interested so it got dropped. (And Levia and Behemo are not the only oddities that should be considered.)

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    • would it be possible to add a voiced by part to the character boxes? i think that would be best for these newly voiced characters

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    • I think trivia points will be enough.

      As for Nyoze though, I think it's safe to say he actually is a Gackpo. He's noted as once being identical to Gammon, and is voiced by Gackpo for the Song of the Third Period.

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    • @Octo and Tobi Thank you so much for clarifying! I'm gonna be honest, all I was able to gather was from the Spanish subbed version and I was able to make out fragments that included things like Pollo shouting "Panic is triplefold! Escape is impossible!" and the ship's computer(?) saying "impending disaster", so I ended up thinking something bad must've happened.

      Well now I'm glad, since Banica getting off more or less scot-free was one of my favorite aspects of he Chronicles' ending XD

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    • The Karma of Evil Will not End's title sounds interesting to me because I've never heard anyone using the word "karma" in its original religious meaning. For most folks in the western world, it just means "good deeds are rewarded, bad deeds are punished", and thus I'm pretty sure most people I know would think of it as something that can "end".

      I mean, it makes sense because Mothy's Japanese (duh) but still, I find it curious.

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    • Should we classify Lich and Eater as Meitos then or just ignore them?

      I think we can have Hel as a Luka since Luka hasn't exactly been consistent with keeping her image.

      If the Miku in Concerto is the black box, could the gastly voice in re_birthday be the black box itself talking to the boy?

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    • That depends. Do you think we should change Ann's classification to Rin or Mariam's classification to Mayu? I feel like even Hel should probably just merit a trivia point in context, but I do admit you have a point about Luka's image

      But then, all of the different Lukas were Luka to establish a connection to another Luka: Elluka, who becomes Elluka Chirclatia, who swaps into Lukana, whom Kayo is a descendant of (and who "Elluka" also swaps into.)

      Also I never considered that for the black box but possibly 0 0

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    • I feel like a good criteria for determining a character's representative Vocaloid is whether or not the narrative acknowledges it - for example, Behemo is a Len because he's noted as looking like Allen in both the Pierrot short story and the Tailor novel.

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    • I don't think that's a good example because Behemo and Levia were referred to as not being Vocaloid characters by mothy, and Behemo is not noted as looking exactly identical to Allen. They are noted as looking similar, but all of Levia and Behemo's copies are referred to as being slightly different from the originals.

      The thing about the Black Box is completely unverifiable at this stage, imo. Interesting theory but no proof (I mean, the box has also spoken with a Len voice before too in MoTHY).

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    • Just throwing this in as a random thought here (probably mentioned already, probably not, probably dismissed, probably what?)

      Has anyone considered that Clockwork Lullaby's Rin as the "Music Box/Clockwork Lullaby "itself? Hear me out on this, please.  Considering "Key of Word"'s extra verse "In the end, I of the Miniature garden wasn't anyone" and the verse: 

      "Lu li la lu li la, this singing voice
      Is the clockwork lullaby
      If you don’t turn me
      I’ll stop forever"

      I'm pretty sure even that may have hit someone in face as an idea before (or not) with the old one. However when you make a music box - the only way it learns is by giving it gears (words), and it turns it into a song! Looking at Playing With Words: how many words listed to have been learned? 12 words (12 songs). Not in particular order (I think) to what we have but it can still be classed as gears fitted into the music box, just like the PV. Of course word play is changing words so changing gears into different sounds, turning to good, and turning to bad (looming Full Moon Lab / Song I Heard Somewhere maybe). In all honestty, Full Moon is very Irina like, however the Music Box cannot control what's going on (experimentation).

      ANYWAY: It is was a thought. Thank you for reading even if you don't agree :)

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    • 2602:306:CE03:5BC0:C822:297D:979F:9021 wrote: I don't think that's a good example because Behemo and Levia were referred to as not being Vocaloid characters by mothy, and Behemo is not noted as looking exactly identical to Allen. They are noted as looking similar, but all of Levia and Behemo's copies are referred to as being slightly different from the originals.

      Ah, that's true. I guess a better example would be Arth being a Len, since Ichika stated his design is based on an adult Len. Inukichi and Hel have nothing in their appearance tying them to the Vocaloids they're voiced by, so I don't think that's grounds to consider them.

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    • I have a question: were the leaked characters for SoTP all the characters in the song? I thought I heard Yukina, but I might be mistaken. It would have been nice if Kirill appeared in a song too, considering his role in this album.

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      That would probably only work for Song of Third Period

      Since Banica's song takes place in another world there wouldn't be another after unless another song about her is released.

      I put Queen of the glass after Karma of Evil since it's about time repeating itself.

      With regards to this, is it fine to place Karma of Evil both at the end of Master of the Heavenly Yard, occurring alongside Banica Concerto!! and Ten Minutes Love, as well as before Queen of the Glass to further emphasize the loop in Court Ending?

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    • Ah, that's true. I guess a better example would be Arth being a Len, since Ichika stated his design is based on an adult Len. Inukichi and Hel have nothing in their appearance tying them to the Vocaloids they're voiced by, so I don't think that's grounds to consider them.

      Arth design is based in Adult Len, but I don't know if he can be considere a Len character.

      After all, Mothy say that Levia and Behemo aren't Rin and Len characters, although their "clones" (Hansel and Gretel) are. So, Arth shoudn't be a Len character either.

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    • He uses Rin and Mayu only because Miriam and Sweet-Ann can't be purchased, he'd get in trouble if he tried to pirate them.

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    • Btw can I post pages for Karma of Evil and Irregular Eve?

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    • I do find it funny that Levia and Behemo are supposedly not Rin and Len characters when Behemo looks like he could be Rin himself. But that's neither here nor there.

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    • 2A02:C7F:9250:5600:4908:7DB9:83BC:3ACE wrote:
      Just throwing this in as a random thought here (probably mentioned already, probably not, probably dismissed, probably what?)

      Has anyone considered that Clockwork Lullaby's Rin as the "Music Box/Clockwork Lullaby "itself? Hear me out on this, please.  Considering "Key of Word"'s extra verse "In the end, I of the Miniature garden wasn't anyone" and the verse: 

      "Lu li la lu li la, this singing voice
      Is the clockwork lullaby
      If you don’t turn me
      I’ll stop forever"

      I'm pretty sure even that may have hit someone in face as an idea before (or not) with the old one. However when you make a music box - the only way it learns is by giving it gears (words), and it turns it into a song! Looking at Playing With Words: how many words listed to have been learned? 12 words (12 songs). Not in particular order (I think) to what we have but it can still be classed as gears fitted into the music box, just like the PV. Of course word play is changing words so changing gears into different sounds, turning to good, and turning to bad (looming Full Moon Lab / Song I Heard Somewhere maybe). In all honestty, Full Moon is very Irina like, however the Music Box cannot control what's going on (experimentation).

      ANYWAY: It is was a thought. Thank you for reading even if you don't agree :)

      I've been thinking about this and I think it's a really cool theory. I actually tried to match words from Wordplay to Clockwork Lullaby songs, but unfortunately I couldn't make it make any sense.

      The words learned in Wordplay are: mother, father, wind, water, together, dreams, love, lies, pain, crime, punishment and evil. If we assume that each word corresponds to one Clockwork Lullaby song... well, I'm quite sure that "mother" is Heartbeat Clocktower and "father" is Miniature Garden Girl, but other tthan that there seems to be no obvious ones. "Evil" might be The Karma Of Evil Will Not End and Seven Crimes And Punishments could be either "crime" or "punishment". Maybe someone else can come up with the remaining pairs.

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    • I'm pretty sure it's already been said the wiki is waiting on price's translation with regards to Karma, Misstress.

      Don't agree with the theory, but already said my piece on what has been moved to a different thread.

      And no, anon, it ws already pointed out that Queen of the Glass is chronologically at the beginning, it should not be put after Karma of Evil because we don't know how the loops work.

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    • CJCroen1393 who is currently on mobile and thus not logged in: on the Mariam queen Ann thing; I think another reason is that Miriam and Sweet Ann are English Vocaloids and he doesn’t speak English, so even if he could get his hands on them it’d be a pain to try and make them sing Japanese.

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    • Arth has been voiced by Len in his image song in addition to being loosely based on his design so idk why you're saying he shouldn't be a Len character.

      By contrast Levia and Behemo, save for hair and eye color, have no confirmed design relation to Rin and Len and that's why the debate has been ongoing despite them being listed as Rin and Len because of the Barisol song.

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    • Let's wait until the booklet is properly translated and we can discuss Eve. I don't want her article posted.

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    • My album has finally arrived at my proxy's warehouse, so sometime next week I should be able to scan it (unless something else goes wrong orz)

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    • Hello everybody! It's MoonlightAbsol all the way back from the Heavenly release.

      I've just been informed that my copy of the album has arrived! I'm out with my cousin right now, but I'll be able to scan the lyrics and such when I get back home a bit later this evening, or maybe tomorrow morning as well :)

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    • Sorry for the double post, but I was finally able to log in! I apologize for the booklet scans being slightly crooked, but they're still legible so I hope it's okay. Feel free to download to your hearts content lol

      [Tumblr post with pictures of cover/CD]

      [Dropbox link to booklet scans

      I did scan the front of the album, but the colors are a little off. I don't know if you all planned on using it for anything since there's already a suitable picture on the wiki, but I digress.

      Anyway, that's about it! Have a nice day :)

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    • Oh, Ichika posted a digital version of the postcard! https://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=70248482

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    • Hi guys, do we need the booklet contents typed out? If so, I can start doing that in a few hours.

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    • Lemmings has pointed out that the Song of the Third Period sounds like a graduation song, given its slow tempo and the fact that everyone is singing; here's an example.

      I'd also like to point out that, aside from having a theme of moving forward, the lyrics mention the souls being gathered "under the third moon". My interpretation of this is that the song takes place in March, which also happens to be the time when graduations usually take place in Japan. To add to this, the twelfth word appearing at the end of the album crossfade is "graduation".

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    • Do old songs in the album sound any different than the original ones?

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    • I know Capriccio Farce was updated but I’m not sure about others

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    • RadiantHope36 wrote:
      Do old songs in the album sound any different than the original ones?

      Capriccio Farce has an entirely redone instrumental, and Heartbeat Clocktower has a new instrumental and vocals as well. The others are the same, from what I can tell. Re_birthday does sound different, but I can't say if it's the same as SCaP or not, because the only version I've managed to hear of the SCaP one isn't the best of quality.

      Miniature Garden Girl is also lacking the talking in the beginning that it had in SCaP, but other than that, not much

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    • That's disappointing. I was very exited for Chrono Story, Seven Crimes and Punishments and Miniature Garden Girl to be different.

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    • GreekTelepath wrote:
       

      I'd also like to point out that, aside from having a theme of moving forward, the lyrics mention the souls being gathered "under the third moon". My interpretation of this is that the song takes place in March, which also happens to be the time when graduations usually take place in Japan. To add to this, the twelfth word appearing at the end of the album crossfade is "graduation".

      I know you're right about it being a graduation thing and it probably does take place in March but my thought by Third Moon was that it referred to it as the Third Moon because it's the moon of the Third Period

      > > or maybe it's supposed to reference both.

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    • Normally I don't want to upload album exclusive songs, but I had a ridiculous number of asks on tumblr to upload Capriccio, and uh.... I kinda caved in

      so here you are

      [capriccio]

      i guess i can do heartbeat if anyone wants as well

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    • In regards to Karma of evil

      "The day where I forgive you Will not come I will forever hate you And I will forever love you"

      I wonder if she's referring to Elluka here (both Chirclatia and Clockworker)

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    • Thank you MoonlightAbsol!

      If you could upload Heartbeat Clocktower too it'd be great ^_^

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    • 2602:306:CE03:5BC0:C822:297D:979F:9021 wrote:
      I'm pretty sure it's already been said the wiki is waiting on price's translation with regards to Karma, Misstress.

      Don't agree with the theory, but already said my piece on what has been moved to a different thread.

      And no, anon, it ws already pointed out that Queen of the Glass is chronologically at the beginning, it should not be put after Karma of Evil because we don't know how the loops work.

      The loop thing can be as straight forward as Karma of Evil runs along side Queen of Glass but in a reverse view (as noted in the Prophet Merry go Round and Project Ma hiding there). I would personally set Karma of Evil as EC1000/@#!!Queen of Glass Year, with thoguht of the weird spike in between the Lu Li La at the end, but not noticeable in reversed form. (I cannot find the old calendar timeline to give you that number specically). 

      QofG S >>>>>>>> E

      KoE   E <<<<<<<< S

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    • 2A02:C7F:9250:5600:48D2:8252:E339:AD61 wrote:
      2602:306:CE03:5BC0:C822:297D:979F:9021 wrote:
      I'm pretty sure it's already been said the wiki is waiting on price's translation with regards to Karma, Misstress.

      Don't agree with the theory, but already said my piece on what has been moved to a different thread.

      And no, anon, it ws already pointed out that Queen of the Glass is chronologically at the beginning, it should not be put after Karma of Evil because we don't know how the loops work.

      The loop thing can be as straight forward as Karma of Evil runs along side Queen of Glass but in a reverse view (as noted in the Prophet Merry go Round and Project Ma hiding there). I would personally set Karma of Evil as EC1000/@#!!Queen of Glass Year, with thoguht of the weird spike in between the Lu Li La at the end, but not noticeable in reversed form. (I cannot find the old calendar timeline to give you that number specically). 

      QofG S >>>>>>>> E

      KoE   E <<<<<<<< S

      Makes me wonder: I did some testing with Karma of Evil by "speeding it up in tempo" and "slowing down Queen of Glass", then looked at an Off Vocal of QofG. Can't quite confirm if its a match on the QofG verse due to the different instruments used. No chorus lines included.

      If anyone has a better program/better knowledge that can adjust tempo and other sound levels to try themselves, that would be great. (Warning though: QofG sounds just as unbearable as Karma of Evil when slowed down)

      This is only a hunch; I can only go so far with what I got as a result.

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    • So I guess this puts to rest the mystery of the baby in the river in a way I really didn't expect in the goddamn least. I knew it wasn't Adam, nothing there added up. I did not expect the implication that the baby was Eve, apparently, as that's the only way to make sense of everything.

      It also looks like I was right about Adam being so helpful to Irina because he recognized her as Maria, his mother.

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    • The timeline still doesn't add up though with Adam and Eve were the irregular twins of Alice because we have the fact that all irregulars sans Ma are blonde. Also Adam and Eve were born in BT 22 and BT 21 respectively while info from the wiki says her twins were born around BT 15. If Eve was the baby in the river we need explanation on how she turned Elphe and aged several years because I think it would be a little difficult to fake a 6 year age gap. 

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    • It is the only conclusion available, but it also still doesn't make sense.

      Eve Zvezda is a green-haired Elphe from the Zvezda clan who is a year younger than Adam, not a gold-haired Irregular twin child. Misstress posited the idea that the Eve twin drowned and reincarnated as Eve Zvezda (or something like that,) which makes sense but I don't know as that's something we can actually put on the pages since the booklet doesn't even suggest it.

      (Technically, though, it didn't say "Irina will once more become Adam and Eve Moonlit's mother" it only said Eve, so there's the potential that he meant the Irregular twins.)

      Not sure how we handle it on the wiki without making undue assumptions.

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    • A note to Eneight, the birth of her twins is not given a clear date. It's only noted that "ten-odd years" pass between her having them and having her "prophecy" in BT 005, so there is wiggle room.

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    • Eve and Adam were both able to bodyswap, keep in mind, and it seems that you can force other things to swap around if you're powerful enough was how I was thinking it. But there aren't too many ways I feel that can be read at present, given he's talking about the cycles and the continuation of the cycle. Since he seems to be talking about Irina becoming Alice, who will then become Adam's mother... As well as Eve's, I'm not sure he's talking about the end of the cycle. And given the way things seem to be set up it felt like the Eve thing was meant to be a revelation which it wouldn't be if we're talking about the twins at the end.

      IDK, it's confusing and this raises more questions than anything else.

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    • Reincarnation I don't think is a viable explanation either because again Eve Zvezda would already have to have been born by the time the Irregular twin was born. 

      With handling it on the wiki I don't think we should make any assumptions about the two being the Irregular twins for now. 

      EDIT: Sorry I just saw ur latest comment Octo. I feel the wiggle room of 5-6 years is still quite a lot for mothy to not just write it as 15 odd years instead of 10 imo.

      EDIT 2: It could be possible if Alice created the bodies of them in BT 22 and BT 21 and then swapped the souls of her twins into those bodies when they were born years later but idk about that.

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    • There's a number of things that could have occurred, from bodyswapping to a reincarnation ritual or something, and 10-odd can still reach 15 or so even if it's a stretch.

      Like I said there's wiggle room, even if it means mothy can't do math but for now it would be better to not say things that the album booklet does not actually say, yeah.

      For now it's probably just best to say that Alice is Adam and Eve's mom and make a trivia saying we don't know how this works. At least that's my vote.

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    • I have a theory, but I'm not posting it here as it's got no way of being confirmed.

      But honestly, this series thrives on unreliable narration and "ten-odd years" was likely just someone trying to in-universe peg it off the top of their head.

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    • The Ossce booklet never mentions that Alice gave birth to twins and the fact that Kiri,Irina, and the Key of Word PV say there are no gods in this third period makes me think that this different from the original 3rd period but is most likely to follow the same sort of events.

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    • OSSCE also was very vague on that detail from what I recall, so just because it didn't mention twins doesn't mean there weren't any. It just mentions she was pregnant and insisted she was a virgin and a child was thrown in the river.

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    • I always thought mothy was just retconning by saying Maria had twins instead of an only child, but maybe you're right, anon - maybe Maria 2 had twins. I honestly don't get how the "no gods" thing works though, since the Heavenly novel mentions Levia-Behemo and the "Twins of God" being born in Third Period 2.

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    • I don't think NO GOD is meant to be taken as there are literally no gods in the repeat timeline. I think it means Third Period 2 was abandoned and that no gods passed into it. It was a timeline brought into existence by the people of the Third Period without Gods.

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    • Kiril's pretty straightforward about it in the album booklet, though. He says, "And now, in that world... There are no gods."

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    • Could be that now they don't exist but everyone still thinks they do or something. Don't know about the situation with Elluka Clockworker and co. though.

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    • Honestly, the only way this makes sense is if all the characters are still in play just as mere shadows or echoes. You can't really have the world going on with only, like, four people.

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    • A bit off-topic to the discussion that's going on right now, but I have uploaded Heartbeat Clocktower as well.

      [link]

      All the other songs seem to be the same, so that'll be all from me for a little while. Hope you all enjoy :)

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    • Speaking of Heartbeat do you think someone should edit in that the realization Adam had was that Irina/Court was related to his mother in the Evil Theater section.

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    • about the "no gods" thing maybe it's in reference to the timeline no longer following the rules that were established in the first timeline?

      like, around gallerian's time it was said that the god's rules were slipping, which was causing unexpected things to happen. like the creation of feng, or zombies raising from the dead without conchita doing it. so it could mean that the world that irina and co created will have unexpected changes compared to the original?

      with one of those changes possibly being the shift in eve and adam's relationship from lovers to siblings

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    • mothy mothied things again with the cycle.

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    • Bumping.

      For now I think it's just best to make as little assumptions about how the cycle works as possible. It feels like a lot of this album is teasing a new release so hopefully it won't stay that way forever.

      Also for Banica Concerto, is it possible that the line "The fuel’s exploding!! Survival is hopeless!!" was sung by a pitched Kiyoteru? Or something > > The fact that he's listed is odd, since if Lich and Eater are pitched Meikos that makes him an unaccounted for character (I mean he's probably Seth but.) Was it the booklet that listed him, or the user who uploaded the video making an assumption?

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    • Listening closely, I can hear Kiyoteru in one speaker whispering under the Miku line "kekka shippai" (delivered in the other); you can hear a weird rasping in the line. The line from right before, "kinkyuu shuuri" sounds like Seth whispering underneath Eater's line judging by the rasping, but it's much harder to hear.

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    • I think the user who uploaded the video was just making an assumption about Kiyoteru. What I assume are Lich's lines sound a lot like Kiyoteru, even though it's just pitched Meiko.

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    • For clarity, can we all agree on the following points?

      • The Court ending created another Third Period, this time with no gods
      • Some things went the same way this time around, such as Project 'Ma' and the vessels of sin being released
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    • I'm not so sure we can take the comment about there being "no gods" literally just yet. especially since it wouldn't be the first time a character has something along those lines despite the actual gods existing.

      To be frank, a universe without the god's influence could not reach the same point that evillious came to at the end of the heavenly novel, which would mean that there couldn't be a cycle. evillious as we know it would not happen in that senario. there wouldn't be levia, who was a strong influence in much of the series as elluka, one of the main coponents in the creation of ma, and, well, everything in the wrath novel.

      and honestly, if there weren't any gods at all, not just familiar faces in the main timeline, then could the characters from the second period exist at all? seth twiright would at least have to not exist, since he was the catylist for the second period making contact with the first and what ultimately allowed them to become gods in the first place. which in turn would elimate meta. and without meta there likely wouldn't have been hansel and gretel. successful candidates sure, but those exact souls with their exact personalities who go through those exact circumstances? probably not. and without hansel and gretel there would be no riliane and allen (or ney for that matter) as they wouldn't be destined to be reborn.

      I'm not sure the demons of sin could even exist at all, and if they were there'd be nothing to break them out. unless either irina or eve did so. but then would eve still become the demon of sloth? would adam still be in the key? would adam have to be the only character in the key? Who'd be there to make the key, and if it couldn't be made then would the sin of wrath be able to exist?

      and well, I think that's enough to get my point across.

      I'm not saying that mothy couldn't or won't go in this direction, but I am saying that I don't think we should assume that that is what's happening here from that comment alone, especially with mothy's track record of contradicting album booklets when he sees fit

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    • That makes a lot of points, and i think the general idea is absolutely right : Without characters as important as the gods, a lot of events won't occur, or in a different way than what we know, and so the world can't go in the same direction as the original 3rd period.

      But I can't forget the four endings thing. It is possible that even if the gods are no longer here, their rules still apply. Those rules are a matter of fate, no one controls it, it is almost like a prophecy

      "The Third Period was created to allegedly last for roughly one thousand years;[7] due to the makeup of its rules, it was destined to end in one of four ways.[8] "

      If these rules are indeed transfered to the new world, it doesn't matter how the story goes, it will always end with one or more of the four endings, and that is what the loop is about : Irina fighting fate to reach her own utopia, the court ending. And so she will try, and fail, and restart the story any number of times, trying different ways to avoid the Graveyard, Hellish and Heavenly endings.

      What I see is much like the plot of Kagerou Days , in the "lose and retry against fate" thing.

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    • I'm not so sure the rules would keep the story completely the same, considering how many characters who are aware of the rules are surprised by the turns that history takes.

      I think that the rules only determine loose things--like how Kiril's musings imply that he knew someone would destroy the world, but he only supposed it was going to be Levia. There has to be a champion for each ending, but it might not be set in stone who will usher the ending in or which ending will be the main one.

      And I think that's what you meant too, but the weird thing is that all implications of the loop are that it's pretty much the same, at least in ways that it shouldn't be if the "no gods" thing is literal (Project Ma still happens, and Irina seems to go through all of her incarnations from the chronicles proper.) So it's confusing.

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    • Octofan wrote:

      the weird thing is that all implications of the loop are that it's pretty much the same, at least in ways that it shouldn't be if the "no gods" thing is literal (Project Ma still happens, and Irina seems to go through all of her incarnations from the chronicles proper.) So it's confusing.


      Well for the whole incarnations thing, if you're talking about the end of the Karma of Evil Will Not End, we just hear the names backward from the last to the first. To me it refers to the second line of the song "Time turns back", she seems to go through all her lives back to the begining but it doesn't mean she will follow this way again..

      And about [Project MA], I don't get why it couldn't happend without gods.. What I understand of these following lines is that she will make a false prophecy again. Not exactly the same that the one that started everything but an 'equivalent', that will push things toward her goal

      What I saw with my own eyes And what I heard, all of it I shall convey as a prophecy The gods are gone now

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    • I don't think Octo is talking about the song--in the album Kiril outright says that the Court ending loop will just go through all of the same things over again.

      Project Ma is a result of Levia and Behemo trying to get bodies to escape Climb One with. Levia is the reason why Kiril took Elluka's body to the ark in the first place, which caused it to blow up. It seems unlikely things could go this way without Levia and Behemo present.

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    • Yeah; while I can see Project Ma starting via a false prophecy (it's never clarified how important Levia and Behemo themselves are to the process, if they're the source of the Divine Seed or what,) Kiril's comments in the booklet make it sound like even beyond that things will stay the same.

      I was actually just talking about the names in the song though so you got me there dfgksdk

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    • I reread the album booklet while listening to the album, because the first time I was not 100% into it and missed a lot of things, but this time I think I got a good grasp on what is said in it

      "The gear’s power is not enough. With this the karma of evil will not end. It’ll just repeat the same things again. And now, in that world…There are no gods. Everything will probably be reduced To a farce."

      So this is the part we're talking about.

      While the "no gods" seems really straightforward to me, I have the feeling that "It'll just repeat the same thing again" could be only about the fate of each world, and not specifically about every events in the story.. But really this is a part where interpretation can say whatever we want so.. it doesn't prove anything.

      Something else that got my attention though is all the references to the Key of Word Machine

      Through all the text, every song is caracterised by the place of it's gear in the KoWM and it seems to really exist in the lore, regarding how Kiril talks about it... I talk about it because I think I understood the red-ish tone of gears 6, 10 and 12 in the PV

      Each one of these gears (Capriccio Farce, Banica Concerto!! and Song of Third Period) are in direct contact with one of the three Black Boxes, and while there are other songs in this case (4 and 3), they are the first of the list where it is said that they are in contact of said BB.

      <Turns clockwise–connected by 04 through the Alice BB>

      <Connects further to the big gear through the Seth BB>

      <Turns counter-clockwise–connects by 09 and 03 through the Sickle BB>

      This is because it is when Kiril added each gear that he added the BBs

      "I was able to proceed with the compactification of the BB system, which was a long-pending problem, at once."

      And so it is only mentionned for the Capriccio Farce box, but I think that the different color of these three is a reaction to the BBs

      "Due to the insertion of the Alice BB, the sixth music box has started to play a different tone than I had initially expected."

      I don't think this is something that will matter for the following of the series, but still i'll like to know what you think of it. This whole kiril thing is very obscure so if we can at least agree on the more accessible things, it will be easyer when we'll have to solve bigger things like the "VOCALOID" apearance, or what the KoWM is..

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    • I think the anon might be onto something with the "things going differently without Levia and Behemo" thing. Remember in the Enbizaka novel where there was that line about how maybe in an alternate universe Kayo really was just crazy? Maybe that's the Court Ending, where Levia and Behemo aren't present and without them things regarding them play out under different circumstances.

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    • Mayhaps it's a "you can't fight fate" sort of thing?

      Like, even without Levia, Elluka and Irina would have gained immortality somehow and continued a feud with each other, Literally Who (also known as Ma) would still exist and try to mess everything up just to keep existing, Nemesis would still be born and become the Wrath sinner, etc.

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    • That just doesn't make sense though. Irina becomes immortal because she kills Elluka. If Elluka dies then that is it for her. It's been established I believe that it's impossible to bring someone back from the dead in Evillious if their soul has passed on to the Heavenly Yard. When someone is dead they are dead and without Levia, Elluka will never be "revived" 

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    • Alright, so we can agree that we can't assume there literally are no gods in Third Period 2. Given how limited our information is regarding the Court ending, I don't think we can really put anything about it other than vague statements and trivia points on the pages.

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    • Why's the last three clockwork lullaby pages are not still up??

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    • because they haven't been made yet. if you think they aren't being made fast enough then you can volunteer to do it yourself

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    • I've done Karma of evil and started on Concerto

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    • 112.200.17.195 wrote:
      Why's the last three clockwork lullaby pages are not still up??

      ^^same anon: I merely asked

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    • and I merely answered

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    • Pro tip most people tend to read double question marks as a more aggressive tone than merely asking.

      If Karma of Evil is done then I will post it. However, I will be making a few changes to the summary as it makes assumptions that we cannot at this time make

      For example saying that Maria will now base her prophecies on what she experienced as Irina; in the song she only says she will convey "what she has heard and seen", which is vague enough to mean anything, and while I did think that the implication there was that she remembers her experiences, the Heavenly Novel states outright that she doesn't. So it's better to stay vague in the summary.

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    • I can get started on Song of third period after i've finished concerto. But can Irregular Eve's page get posted? I can remove the stuff about her being Alice's child. Also the Zero family page has been sitting in my sandbox for quite some time.

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    • One thing I saw in the Concerto lyrics is that she's says "Guratoronomiii" I think this is meant to translate as "Gulatronomy"  rather than Gluttonomy. (like how astronomy comes from the latin word "astra" meaning "stars")

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    • Both "Gluttony" and "Gula" start with "gura" so I'm not sure how to establish which interpretation is correct, short of asking mothy. "Gulatronomy" does sound better though.

      The issue here is just that the suffix is wrong for what mothy is using it for. It's "onomy", not "tronomy", and neither Gula nor Gluttony have a "tr" sound in them (even if mothy clearly intended for one to be there).

      If the wiki wants to go with a direct reading of the katakana, perhaps "Gulatronomy" would be the better option. If the wiki wants a "translation" of the kanji and katakana together that (imo) works better in English, I think "Gluttonomy" is better, because at least then it keeps in the "t" (and Gulaonomy is a little awkward).

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    • No preference between Gulatronomy and Gluttonomy (Actually that's a lie I'd prefer Gluttonomy or Gluttronomy especially as "Gula" is an in-universe disease and Banica isn't researching that) but yes Misstress you can post Eve's page--but keep everything after Heavenly extremely vague. I think for now it's safe to say that Eve becomes Eve Zvezda (somehow, at some point...) but all that stuff about her being Alice's child, drowning, and then reincarnating into Eve Zvezda should be removed, as you said. 

      Also note, Loop!Irina is repeatedly referred to as "Alice" in the narrative, not Maria Moonlit. It probably doesn't mean anything but try to refer to her as mostly Alice for consistency.

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    • Octofan wrote: Arth has been voiced by Len in his image song in addition to being loosely based on his design so idk why you're saying he shouldn't be a Len character.

      Arth isn't voiced by Len in his song character. The story of Arth is sing by Len, but this doesn't mean Arth is a Len character.

      After all, Meiko sing the story of Leonhart, but he isn't a Meiko character.

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    • Arth's design is based on Len though.

      I'll finish up concerto as fast as possible and try my best to get the plot of SoTP down.

      I personally think Gulatronomy sounds more academic, but "Gluttonomy" is not an option because there isn't an R in it.

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    • Then I guess his name is Arren and her name is Ririane. :V

      Misstress, you're doing that thing again where you're ignoring things because you want things done your way. You seem to largely be going off of romaji and not precedent if what I'm reading is correctly, where the suffix used is, with established precedent, -onomy not -tronomy.

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    • The issue here is that mothy clearly intended for it to be "tronomy" but he also clearly intended the word to be translated in a way where the "r" sound at least is completely superfluous and muddles the meaning. Misstress is not wrong that "Gluttonomy" is not really a strictly accurate reading of the katakana, but--well, I have already stated my reasons for why I think it's a forgiveable liberty. It's not an issue of translation precedent, it's an issue of that's just how the suffix is.

      And, as Octo said, Misstress, Gulatronomy might sound more sophisticated, but we do already have an in-universe disease called Gula, which might confuse people.

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      Arth's design is based on Len though.


      Ichika said that his design is based on a adult version of Len. This is probably because he wanted to do Arth similar to Allen. However, Arth shouldn't be identical to Allen (since Arth's his father). So, I don't think we can assure that Arth is a Len character.

      Behemo and Levia aren't Len and Rin characters, even although they have their voices.

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    • Arth was based on an adult version of Len.

      His song is sung by a (slightly pitched down) Len (I know that you have a point with the Meiko singing Leonhart's song, but this is to be taken in addition to the point above)

      We have had cases of a Vocaloid portraying both one character and their father (Kaidor and Kaspar) so the argument that he "shouldn't" be identical because he's Allen's father is invalid. Plotwise, it makes sense he would be a Len as Arth was descended from an Irregular. Plotwise, it makes sense that Allen looks like his father.

      For the time being, he's a Len character. Maybe mothy will at one point make a comment that Arth is "not a Vocaloid character" but until that day, this is more nitpicking than anything.

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    • About that, I've been wondering where Kaidor is confirmed to be a Kaito character? I thought the only way to glean if a character is played by a Vocaloid is if they get to sing or have a facial illustration, and Kaidor hasn't done either.

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    • Kaidor is identical to Kaspar, that's confirmed in the narrative as it's the reason why he had his face changed. That's in addition to the "Kai" name

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    • All I can say about this subject is that I both fondly remember and miss the days when we thought that Arth was played by Big Al.

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    • Redladydeath wrote: About that, I've been wondering where Kaidor is confirmed to be a Kaito character? I thought the only way to glean if a character is played by a Vocaloid is if they get to sing or have a facial illustration, and Kaidor hasn't done either.

      However, the novels don't mention that Allen was identical to a young Arth.

      So, the only reason is that Ichika based Arth's design in an Adult Len. I don't think that's enough to say he is a Len character.

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    • Honestly the only reason I brought up Kaidor was to say that your claim that Arth couldn't be identical to Allen because he's Allen's dad had no basis in the series.

      The novels (as far as we know from the translated text) don't say Arth is identical to Allen, but they don't say that they aren't identical either. And while Kaidor was determined to be a Kaito due to his stated resemblance to Kaspar, this fact was in lieu of having an actual design to reference. Arth does have a design to reference.

      Again, Arth is considered a Len character for a combination of plot, song, and design factors that I have already gone over above, as well as there being no statement from mothy that he is not a Vocaloid character (a statement from mothy being the only reason we've had any debates at all about Levia and Behemo being Rin and Len.) It is not for any one factor.

      Meanwhile, the argument you have repeatedly made is that "The only reason is that Ichika based his design on adult Len, but we can't say he's represented by Len." 

      Again, this is nitpicking. It is no longer a productive discussion.

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    • Imo it's kind of silly to say "We may have explicit confirmation that Ichika made him an adult Len character, but I don't think that's enough to say he's a Len character". Like, does being an adult somehow make him not a Len anymore? Would you consider a grown up Yukina to no longer be a "Yuki Kaina" character?

      Like, the point of saying "X is a VOCALOID character" is to say who they are modeled after (and for the in-universe plot reasons of being identical/related to other characters, of course). If we have explicit confirmation Arth is modeled off of Len in some form, I don't...see why we wouldn't say that he is?

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    • When the thread of Clockwork Lullaby Album shifted to Arth being a Len...

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    • "Gula" the illness is romanized as "Guura" while the word banica uses is "Guratoronomy". The correct romanization for the latin word "Gula" is "Gura"

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    • If the Gula plague is romanized as "Guura" and the word Banica uses starts with "Gura", then isn't that all the more reason to make a distinction between the two?

      The long and short of it is, it's a made-up word and the two proposed translations are both tied to Gluttony anyway, so I don't think it makes sense to discuss it extensively. Unless Price's translation is blatantly wrong, I say we follow it.

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    • Yes, Misstress. It's clear what your preference is but you haven't actually made a single conclusive argument as to why it needs to be "gulatronomy" over "gluttronomy" or "gluttonomy". Gluttony is romanized as "guratonii". The research field Banica says is "guratoronomi". The only reason one could argue strongly for "gula" being the intended translation of that is because it's Latin, but we've already established there's a conflict with that and our translation of "Gula" (which isn't changed by what the original romaji is because most people won't see that, unless you're trying to argue we should change Gula despite having already discussed that in the past and decided against it iirc).

      Unless you're going to go talk to mothy and ask him what he intended with the word (which you're welcome to do), it's a pointless aesthetic argument.

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    • I say we just change it to Gluttronomy (Gluttoronomy?)

      It's the study of gluttony. It's got most of the word "glutton" in there. The "r" doesn't belong anywhere in the word. There's an r in things like "gastronomy" and "astronomy" but that's because the words attached to the suffixes are "gastro" and "astro". Whether it's Gulatronomy or Gluttronomy, the r is an out and out mistake on mothy's end.

      However, we have generally legitimized mothy's mistakes on this wiki when it comes to poor English ("Welcome to Conchita Dining Room", "Evils Theater" etc.) unless the mistakes seriously impair the intended meaning and we have other translation precedent to go on ("The Fifth Clown vs Fifth Pierrot")

      So. It's really just a matter of do you think translating it with the r will impair the intended pun? I don't really care either way, but Gulatronomy is not going to be an option for the reasons outlined above.

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    • I tried searching for those words but it won't appear to be an actual word. Gluttonomy is an agency in Florida and the rest is actually nothing..

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    • ...We know that already. These are made-up words, that was kind of clear from the beginning.

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    • 112.201.62.52 wrote:
      I tried searching for those words but it won't appear to be an actual word. Gluttonomy is an agency in Florida and the rest is actually nothing..

      ^^Same anon

      I thought I'm the only one.. Well, won't Gulatronomy be more exact than Gluttronomy? Gluttronomy would be Guruutoronomii in japanese (or so I think) while Gulatronomy will share the same transliteration or whatsoever.

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    • ...No.

      As has been stated previously in this conversation (maybe you should read back a little because it seems like you're missing some things), Gluttony is written in romaji as "Guratonii". So "Guratoronomii" could very easily be "Gluttronomy" over "Gulatronomy".

      What you're describing sounds like it would be written more as "Gluetronomy" or something.

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    • Since this issue seems to be a mostly cosmetic one, let's put it to a vote.

      Gluttronomy or Gluttonomy?

      I vote for Gluttronomy, although I do still hold that the r is probably a mistake.

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    • I vote for Gluttonomy, it rolls off the tongue easier, relatively makes more sense as the R feels misplaced

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    • Gluttonomy

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    • Gluttronomy, i don't think we can take too many liberties with this one. Like no offense but wether something "rolls of the tongue better" isn't really that relevant, as I have been told before.

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    • I go for gluttronomy.. I feel something lacks gluttonomy.

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    • I'm for Gluttonomy.

      And, as I have said before, in my opinion it's not simply an issue of which one sounds better, so please don't mischaracterize that argument, Misstress.

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    • Gluttonomy 

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    • Gluttonomy.

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    • Gluttronomy

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    • Gluttonomy.

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    • Gluttonomy just is easier to say, quite frankly.

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    • If we're still voting, Gluttonomy.

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    • Gluttronomy.. That it may be akin to gastronomy.

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    • Alright, so far I have 5 votes for Gluttronomy and 8 for Gluttonomy.

      That's a bit close, so I'm going to give this another day before calling it.

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    • Gluttronomy for me.

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    • Gluttronomy!

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    • ...You can't vote twice, anon 112.200.24.100

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    • Well, disqualifying the anon who thought they could vote twice without anybody seeing their IP address, that's still 5 for Gluttronomy and 8 for Gluttonomy. I'm calling this; the discussion is over.

      The kanji makes it clear that Gluttonomy (the study of gluttony) was mothy's intention. It's a pun which the r muddies up. And might I add, it's one pun in one song that we're in all likelihood never going to see again. We're going to use this spelling for the forseeable future. But there will be a trivia point about the r being in the romaji.

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    • 112.200.24.100 wrote:
      Gluttronomy!

      ^^same anon: never thought that replying twice won't count as one.. it rather got disqualified.

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    • Why would you reply twice?

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    • 112.201.62.52 wrote:
      112.200.24.100 wrote:
      Gluttronomy!
      ^^same anon: never thought that replying twice won't count as one.. it rather got disqualified.

      ^^same anon: It's a positive way to cheer my vote.. like in the basketball where you'll repeatedly say your team..

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    • Well, in context it looked like you were voting twice, because this is a forum, and not a chatroom or basketball stadium. Each post you make increases the size of the thread, and thus how long it takes to load, and so most people try to keep what they want to say concise and to the point.

      Even including your 1 vote, it's not enough to tip the scales in favor of Gluttronomy, so it's not really important, but please keep that in mind if you vote in the future and don't reply needlessly multiple times just to show your enthusiasm.

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    • Honestly it's enough that I counted the very first vote you made way back up there before you replied twice.

      Anyway this discussion, as I said, is closed. More to business we still need Song of the Third Period and Banica Concerto to get pages.

      Also, although Banica Concerto is 10 in the song list, it seems to take place after Song of the Third Period, since mothy's Vocaloid tweet confirmed Hänsel and Gretel are still there to sing with the rest of the cast in Song of the Third Period.

      I mean Karma of Evil technically takes place before both of them going by Heavenly events

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