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  • GreekTelepath
    GreekTelepath closed this thread because:
    New thread: http://theevilliouschronicles.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:57151
    21:28, December 5, 2017

    This is a thread for discussion on the Deadly Sins of Evil: Master of the Heavenly Yard novel. All comments, theories, and discussion of info related to this novel goes here. Please keep all replies concise, productive and civil.

    On a side note, please do not post major spoilers without context or grounded evidence, for the sake of the community's wellbeing.

    This thread has been closed. See the next iteration of this thread for further discussion.

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    • Okay to start this off, I'm posting the infomine of "Epilogue" on Pixiv here.

      Please keep in mind that this is mostly my wording from a very quick read-through that Price did.

      • The Epilogue starts with Allen on the Heavenly Yard (otherwise known as the moon; no mention of it being the Second Period *cough cough*)
      • It mentions how also in the Heavenly Yard is the Sun God; Allen (initially referred to as "the boy") wonders where the moon goddess is, thinks Sickle probably knows
      • Since Sickle probably won't tell anybody what happened, Allen had jumped down to the ground world again (I'm personally guessing this first part takes place right before Nemesis novel)
      • On the ground world he looks around, only sees fields and can hear some water far away. Punishment has destroyed everything, but it couldn't completely get rid of the large ocean.
      • It also talks about how the ocean is actually part of the destruction of the Third Period(?) like Evillious fell into the ocean?
      • Mentions how no one could escape it with an ark this time.
      • Some quoting of the song, Allen says how "you've" all been mistaken and corrects himself to "we've," laughs at himself a little.
      • Hears a voice (multiple voices?); it's one of(?) the dead souls
      • Basically the next part is recapping the stuff that happened in SCaP
      • "This is the epilogue of the Third Period but it's not yet over"
      • Nemesis is following behind Allen. She speaks up; she's out of breath because she's still alive and can get fatigued. She's also getting hungry (she's probably gonna die anyway since there's nothing to eat 8/)
      • Recaps how Nemesis is the only person left alive because of her contract.
      • She sits down, says maybe she'll like being dead. She suggests cutting off her contract, Allen says that Seth probably won't do that and Nemesis grumbles that Seth (she calls him a psychopathic bastard lol) likes to see her suffer.
      • Seth, Gumillia, and Michaela aren't with them right now so it's just Allen and Nemesis
      • Allen makes them keep going again because it's uRGENT
      • Nemesis points out that she doesn't necessarily want to save the world; although she's not HAPPY that she succeeded in destroying the world, she had wanted to do it for a long time and she doesn't really regret it.
      • Allen is like "Oh is that Nemesis talking or-" and then he kinda trails off and says he doesn't necessarily want to restore the world either (he's being vague but Price thinks he wants to rebuild the world as something different)
      • Says like "our goals aren't that different" and Nemesis is like "ugh you sound like Behemo"
      • They keep going, then they chat about Evil's Theater; they're headed there first, and then after they go there they'll head to Lucifenia so Allen can meet Riliane
      • Nemesis kinda wants to talk to her too
      • Lilith Balledold was an incarnation of Riliane (presumably before Ma turned her into Postman), so Nemesis kinda wants to thank her for saving her life technically.
      • (This isn't said in the text explicitly but Price is of the idea that Lilith was her body while Waiter could have been her soul.)
      • Notes how Nemesis only just figured this out.
      • After chatting about that a little bit more they head out again.
      • Then it talks about Nemesis' revolver, blah blah blah
      • Allen comments also about how young Nemesis looks considering her age, but he doesn't think it's Seth's doing.

      Annnnnd tldr; little revelations aside, it's just recapping what happened in previous novels and sets up for the rest of the story.

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    • So I guess that now we can confirm Banica really is motg and not in a reincarnation way, and the servants are really Hänsel and Gretel with diffrent clothes

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    • Once we find out how she got a body, yeah.

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    • So when you order from animate you get a full relationship card and i think someone should try to get a hold of it.

      Samplerelationshipcardmothy
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    • Someone on the EC discord has offered to buy it, and they routinely send me scans, so if he can get it, we'll have a wiki copy soon.

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    • Sorry to bother you, but the novel has it's own page on that novel site: http://akunotaizai.com

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    • There's a new chapter for the MOTHY novel. https://novel.pixiv.net/viewer/stories/2938

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    • Now I'm confused, has Sickle's gender ever been specified?

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    • The Heavenly Yard short story refers to him as male several times.

      It's possible this is foreshadowing the moon god being his twin sister? Like Nemesis is familiar with the sister and Allen's been talking to the brother.

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    • But Nemesis specifies "Sickle" as the woman, it's odd

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    • The moon goddess could have used the name Sickle at some point, thus leading to Nemesis remembering "Sickle" as her, not the Sickle we all know and love.

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    • I don't understand, the Heavenly short story strictly refers to him as Male, did Mothy change it just to screw with us?

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    • Remember "Luna Hazuki" from the album character index? I think we might have another twin switch situation on our hands.

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    • Yeah i suspected Luna would be involved somehow, I was just suspedting it would be relveaed to be sickle's real name

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    • I was about to bring up that Behemo refers to Sickle constantly as the gender neutral "aitsu", but looking over the Pierrot bonus story it seems his narrative also, at least at one point, refers to Sickle as 彼.

      It's puzzling, but anything's possible at this point.

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    • ...So looking it up, 彼 can actually be used by women. Seems like it's a rare thing, but if Sickle is indeed a woman that was some brilliant goddamn stealth on Mothy's part. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but everything I'm seeing says it's technically one that is used by both genders.)

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    • ...Used by women or used as referring to women?

      Like, the kanji itself can be gender neutral in certain uses (such as 彼の王, etc), but in its usage as a pronoun referring to someone other than the speaker, I have never seen anything indicating it was a gender neutral term. Would you mind quoting your source?

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    • Referring to women. I asked around because I have a couple of friends who actually are fluent and teach in Japan (tho one is just plain a translator by career), and it's apparently very obscure in that use? The main one I lean on stated that if this is being used for someone always intended to be a woman, then the author likely was trying to... Well, basically troll us for a Shocking Reveal. I can ask for a more solid source, though.

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    • I would like a more solid source, yes. Though I'm not sure what difference it would make either way--if it's that obscure in usage, it still borders on lying to the reader. Like saying "Yes I may have called this person a man, and everyone who read it would be led to assume they were male, but historically that word just meant human so technically they can still be a woman".

      Especially considering mothy has been careful not to use gendered pronouns when making reveals like that in the past (or if he did, it was always an in-character narration making the mistake).

      However. I'm not sure we need to make a big thing about it before the novel's even out. If it turns out there's some miscommunication between Allen and Nemesis (like there being twins or something), the whole conversation is moot. He's certainly drawing attention to the fact that Sickle was presented as male previously by having Allen remark that he thought he was a man.

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    • Almost forgot this point but also, "Sickle" and "Luna Hazuki" are listed separately in the album's cast list, implying they are indeed two different people.

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    • Pfff actually scratch that I just realized Hansel and Gretel are listed separate from their reincarnations too.

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    • https://novel.pixiv.net/works/1013 the third chapter is up. Apparently in the very first section Eve is narrating. Then it cuts to the royal palace and it's basically the song's 3rd chapter. Tony Ausdin also shows and I believe he refers to Riliane as Postman

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    • He never refers to Riliane as Postman. The novel explicitly states that because Postman obscured her face, Tony couldn't recognize Riliane as Postman, while she could recognize him just fine (she's regained memories of all past lives)

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    • So it seems my theory that Ma removed Riliane's soul from Lilith's body and incarnated her as Waiter seems to have been debunked. That's a shame.

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    • someone on the evillious discord server found a chinese translation of "pre-release spoilers" for MotHeavenlyY

      some chinese members infomined it, and it seems that Sickle's real name is TALOS, and he is actually a robot created by the mechanical engineer Luna Hazuki, aka the Moon Goddess

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    • Octofan
      Octofan removed this reply because:
      Huge upsetting spoiler.
      22:36, November 21, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Before everyone freaks out and all hell breaks loose on Tumblr, I'd like to remind everyone that this information is coming from Chinese users, and may not be 100% reliable. We are still waiting for Price to infomine everything, and given the nature of spoilers, we may not know what exactly the true nature of everything is. I advise everyone to stay calm and take the information Abdul posted with a grain of salt.

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    • sorry ^^;; i should never have stated that last thing

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    • Please do not post huge, provocative spoilers here free of context and derived from a translation of an infomine. Saying "HUGE SPOILER" does not actually prevent anyone from seeing the spoiler you just posted.

      Not to be an ass. If you really want to put the spoiler here, make a link to a post about it.

      In any case no updates are being made until there's a proper infomine of the whole novel.

      Edit: Sorry didn't see Greek replied

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    • again, im really really sorry ;;;;

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    • Moving on, could someone rip the main image from the novel website and upload it here? The main page needs updating since the novel's out already.

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    • aa ;w; You're fine didn't mean to gang up on you. Some fans tend to jump the gun when they hear twists is all.

      Edit: gdi I'm so slow

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    • the picture on the website seems to cut out Margarita from the back cover

      tho i found a version of the picture that has Margarita behind Gammon but uhhh it doesnt look high quality enough

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    • Master of the heavenly yard
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    • I'd rather we use the picture on the website, to be honest. It fits the slider proportions better.

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    • MOTHY akunosite rip
      Here, I ripped the image right from the site's source code. I can also download the profile images if anybody wants those?
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    • THose are allready taken care of HoA

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    • Oh ok

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    • Jessie, for a long time you've been adding posts to forums that don't really contribute anything to the conversation. We've discussed this with you time and time again, but you don't seem to be stopping. Therefore, for every thread you have three strikes before we ban you for a day. Consider the above reply to be strike one.

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    • I've been told what the Ten Minute Love fragment of the song meant in the novel by people that have access to its info and, if true... it's basically one of these "I showed you long ago" type of twists.

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    • Would anyone mind directing me to the spoilers posted earlier? Apologies.

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    • Is it true that Allen is not Master of the Heavenly Yard?

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    • There has been no reliable infomine of the book made, so we really couldn't tell you.

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    • Where will infomines be posted once they're released? Will they be publically available?

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    • pricechecktranslations would most likely start posting infomines on their blog once they get access to the novel

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    • I got a picture of the relationship chart but it's so blurry it's hard to make out most parts but I did manage to confirm some things

      It's possibly spolery but is it ok to drop it here?

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    • It's fine only if you're absolutely sure of your translation of them. For added measure, you can make them in small text so the fandom isn't immediately spoiled.

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    • So Sickle's actual name is "TALOS" and Luna is difinitely the moon goddess and their relationship is marked with "?"

      Another thing, a fan on twitter possibly confirmed that Michaela is a transwoman.

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    • No Miss their relation is marked with "創作" 

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    • Weird, perhaps the original owner of the photo attempted to edit that out

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    • I can confirm Gumillia name being Gumillia Matsumoto  

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    • Confirmed Michaela is a transwoman how?

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    • someone said "Michela 2nd was male" I assume they mean Michaela when she lived in the second period.

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    • Eve and salem had a thing appearntly?

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    • Wait Seiun do you have that chart?

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    • I'm gonna have to ask anyone giving spoilers to at least give some context to them when posting. Don't just drop provocative pieces of info without grounding them. Thanks.

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    • That doesn't necessarily mean she's a transwoman as per the real world definition of it. She is, after all, reincarnated into her female gender identity.

      Sounds like mothy does go over that in the novel then if a fan was saying it, so we'll see.

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    • My friend shared with me, i just don't know if he wants me to post here on the wiki. If is possible to talk with one of you through a private chat.

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    • Yeah, I've seen (and heard about) a lot of panic and confusion going around as a result of the novel's release and people being desperate to be the first to dig up spoilers. I won't name names, but apparently some fans have been getting very upset over it.

      So yeah, I mean. For one thing if the source isn't even reliable (aka hearsay) it probably doesn't need to be said. We can wait.

      I mean that one wasn't terribly hard to guess.

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    • Well private conversations are always possible on the live chat here

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    • How does it works?

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    • To the right far up there should be something called "Live! chat" and an option for "join the chat"

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    • If the relationship chart comes with the book, I can upload all the info tomorrow. I'm getting my copy tomorrow.

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    • it's not with the book, it comes separately only when bought from animate

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    • The animate version comes with a poster, other vers the chart is inside the book,

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    • But just the ClimbOne Crew is important, the rest is the same of Scap

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    • Since Lemmings is most likely getting his novel tomorrow, I'd like to close all discussion of the relationship chart as that would be redundant and counterproductive.

      In fact, I encourage everyone to post only information from reliable sources. Misinformation is often a problem in this fandom, and it stems from fans posting things they obtain through hearsay for the sake of getting the information out there ASAP. We really need to be careful in regulating the information that goes through here. Thanks for understanding.

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    • If you guy read the Chinese spoiler, it has.... A LOT OF informations... my mind want to go off after read half of that.

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    • I get you want to help, but translations of a Chinese translation from Japanese are not a reliable source.

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    • Due to the technical difficulties, there will be a new stream on December 2nd.

      http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv308964936

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      someone said "Michela 2nd was male" I assume they mean Michaela when she lived in the second period.

      Well, if that is a reincarnation, we do not know how that applies to gender concept of Michaela.

      In any case, if Michaela considers herself a men because her previous life, this would be mean that Michaela is a transman (not transwoman).

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    • Just to clear things up, this is our reasoning:

      • Michaela allegedly identified as male during the Second Period, going by the name "Michael".
      • Michael died and became a genderless forest spirit, taking on the name Michaela.
      • After Michaela incarnated in a biologically female body, she began identifying as a woman.

      Seems to me that "transgender" here wouldn't be an appropriate fit, although I'm no queer theorist. I'd rather we list Michaela as having multiple genders, listed out in chronological order - Male, then Genderless, then Female.

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    • This is. Kind of uncomfortable. But if Michaela now identifies as and is mostcomfortable as a woman (her Ideal Self in the end of things seems to be the woman that she was around Clarith, as far as I can see), that makes her a woman and is, technically, trans--though she may not have even realized it at the time of her previous life. At the very least, she's genderfluid, but dictating that body determines gender is very uncomfortable and this canon does have transgender fans. So this is going to have to be handled with care.

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    • I'm sorry but tbh i think the western fans are too obsessed with seeing something mothy has not put there. Eastern fans aren't debating any of this gender stuff and mothy probs doesn't either.The point of the spirits having no gender is to explain how Michael became Michaela and nothing else. Like no other spirit does this or has this change, behemo doesn't.So i feel this debate by the western fans brings nothing to the table and quite honestly is just how you wanna see it. Because mothy probably won't give an answer ppl will find satisfying on it other than what he wrote.

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    • Mothy also put in that the gender has to match the body or else magic and things like that don't work, up to and including the soul rejecting the body, IIRC. So Michaela being able to use magic indicates something is right in that combination. It's why Gallerian wasn't a valid host for one of Ma's souls, and it's why Irina can't do much magic-wise when leeching off of her male subordinate, and it's why Ma used Lilith and even talks about souls, gender and bodies there.

      So by Mothy's own rules, there's something there, unless Michaela violates these rules.

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    • I'd really say the conversation be dropped and what she is considered be dropped until the novel is actually infomined because all this is is a bunch of people arguing over something we don't even have full context or understanding of yet and it's stupid

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    • Not that I know anything since Im no expert but wouldnt micheal and michela technically be two different characters in a sense? If Michaela is a reincarnation then micheala's gender could be female but also havr a reference of her previous gender being male.

      Also being a western or eastern has nothing to do with one reacts as those aretwo different things that hold no correlation towards each other sorry i

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    • I'd argue that Michaela and Gumillia have always been women, since you can't truly change your gender

      Perhaps we've mistakenly been treating sex and gender as the same thing.

      This would help if we knew what the japanese term elluka uses when talking about "gender" because she could just be talking about them being "sexless" rather than genderless

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    • 66.139.155.126 wrote: Mothy also put in that the gender has to match the body or else magic and things like that don't work, up to and including the soul rejecting the body, IIRC. So Michaela being able to use magic indicates something is right in that combination. It's why Gallerian wasn't a valid host for one of Ma's souls, and it's why Irina can't do much magic-wise when leeching off of her male subordinate, and it's why Ma used Lilith and even talks about souls, gender and bodies there.

      So by Mothy's own rules, there's something there, unless Michaela violates these rules.

      This seem to be a different case, Michaella seems to be a reincarnartion, while the other cases was a soul possesing a body.

      In fiction, it isn't really uncommon that people reincarnate with a different sex (the gender tend to be defined by the body in these cases)

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    • I agree that this needs to be handled with care. As per the fact that the spirits are genderless, we've implemented "they" pronouns for Gumillia and Michaela for their time as spirits, and only start using feminine pronouns after they are reincarnated.

      I'd argue that no, the body does not indeed dictate the gender. The one dictating their gender is Elluka, since Elluka's all "I just imagine you guys as women" and promptly gives them female bodies.

      Let's wait for Price to give her input based on the Japanese characters Elluka uses to refer to Michaela and Gumillia. For now, I'm sticking to my suggestion that Michaela's gender goes Male -> Genderless -> Female.

      But yes, I agree with anon. Let's drop this topic until the whole "Michaela = Michael" twist is revealed and contextualized.

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    • Hello, actual trans person here. I think we should all wait for a translation before coming to conclusions about Michaela, but from what I have read I think it is most appropriate to call her a trans woman. If she was seen as a man, but is a woman, that makes her transgender. Her original body was male but her ideal appearance is female. I feel like this speaks for itself. I don't want there to be discourse over this, though. All I ask is that we wait for a translation and handle the situation with as much respect for trans people as possible. Thanks.

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    • yeah, I agree that this conversation should wait until we have our hands on the infomine for the novel at least. though I would like to say that it's not fair to say that this conversation isn't worth having at all just because other fans aren't talking about it. and I also don't think it's fair to assume that mothy himself hasn't considered it just because we're uncomfortable talking about it.

      we don't have the information to decide one way or another right now, but conversation around it shouldn't be shut down by saying that it doesn't matter

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    • On a different topic, price has just started her infomines ! (X)

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    • It's good to confirm that Postman is a reincarnation of Rilliane.

      So far, all Rin characters had a reason to have the same look, right?

      I wonder if it will be a reason for Punishment and Irregular having the same look of Allen. The other Len characters have a reason for their similarity.

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    • I have my novel, so as requested, here is all the info from the chart of Climb One members:

      - It's labeled as gods, demons, spirits (Climb One passengers)

      - Under Gods: Sickle (TALOS) (Sun God), Luna Hazuki (Moon Goddess), Behemo Barisol (Twin gods body), Levia Barisol (Twin Gods, spirit) and Held Yggdra (earth god)

      - Under Spirits: Gumillia Matsumoto (Master of Hell/Hellish Yard), Michaela (Michael Arklow) (Earth God's successor), Lich Arklow, and Eater Sabella

      - Under Demons: Rahab Barisol (Demon of Envy), Gilles Derais (Demon of Lust), Eve Moonlit (Demon of Sloth) *not a passenger, Marie Anette (Demon of Pride), Salem Dunbar (Demon of Greed), Seth Twiright (Demon of Wrath), Vlad Tuberci (Demon of Gluttony)

      Now for relationships.

      - Sickle is the work/creation of Luna.

      - Levia and Behemo are older sister and younger brother, but not related by blood (the term usually means step-siblings, but we all know what the relationship here is)

      - Held and Levia are teacher and pupil.

      - Rahab and Levia are mother and daughter. 

      - Rahab and Giles are lovers.

      - Michaela is the retainer/follower of Held

      - Gumillia and Seth are cooperating.

      - Gumillia and Michaela are the pupils to Levia's teacher/mentor.

      - Eater and Lich are friends.

      - Lich is the big brother to Michaela's little brother.

      - Eater and Vlad are cousins.

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    • Thanks, Lemmings! The chart really clarifies a lot. However, since there could always be twists in the novel, I'd like to remind everyone that we will be waiting for Price to finish her infomine of the entire novel before implementing any updates.

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    • Sickle's name refers to the Talos of Greek legend - one of the earliest mentions of robots in history. Talos is also known for The Talos Principle which can best be summarized with this quote from the game with the same name: 

      Whether it is true that Daedalus constructed the giant Talos, or as others say he was the creation of Hephaestus, what we may be certain of is that he was made of bronze, and had but one vein, within which flowed a liquid substance like blood, which some claim was quicksilver, and others assert was ichor such as flows in the veins of the gods. The loss of that liquid caused him to die, as a man dies when he loses his blood.

      May we not then say that Talos, though created as a machine or a toy, had all the essential properties of a man? He moved of his own volition. He spoke and could be spoken to, had wishes and desires. Indeed in the tale of the Argonauts, that was the cause of his downfall. If, then, a machine may have all the properties of a man, and act as a man while driven only by the ingenious plan of its construction and the interaction of its materials according to the principles of nature, then does it not follow that man may also be seen as a machine? This contradicts all the schools of metaphysics, yet even the most faithful philosopher cannot live without his blood.

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    • Gotcha, GT. If there's something you need me to look up and/or collab with Price on, let me know.

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    • For me I still Think Seth is planning something Just a Hunch :) he did say he was bored with the ground world..but does he really mean that.

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    • My own reactions:

      • I wonder if Levia is slightly older than Behemo (by like, a minute or something) just like normal twins.
      • According to Lemmings, Gumillia's surname roughly means "base of the pine tree". Fitting, since she's a forest spirit.
      • I wonder if their surnames are any indication of where they're from - Gumillia and Luna are both Japanese, Michael and Lich are both Irish, etc.
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    • So. I have a question. Has literally anything else besides a single song/album so far mentioned Behemo being Alternate Universe Levia? Because it strikes me as odd that the chart outright spoils what Sickle is and tells us in no uncertain terms that Michaela is Michael Arklow and thus the sibling Lich was teased about, but makes no mention of that point between Behemo and Levia besides calling them "step-siblings." It's not like it'd be a spoiler, and the chart obviously doesn't shy away from it, so that makes me wonder if Mothy's ever going to confirm it or if it's just... An IC story of some sort, like how "The Serpent" hasn't even really been addressed, either.

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    • Nope, I don't think so. Odd, that. I don't think it was even really addressed in Nemesis' novel (correct me if I'm wrong), which featured a lot of point-of-view for Levia.

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    • Yeah, it's odd. I'm going to come out and say something: if this novel doesn't bring it up, no, I DON'T think it's safe to keep assuming they're alternate universe counterparts. Evidence used for it was a song that's actually pretty vague, some Ichika fanart and the fact that Mothy's a fan of Bioshock, I believe, but at this point, the novels just aren't acknowledging it at all which is really damn weird. Levia herself consistently refers to Behemo as her brother, even in her Second Period flashback.

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    • So should we change Michaela to Michaela Arklow now or just keep it as simply Michaela?

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    • Um maybe add Micheala's previous surname? But has Arklow been confirmed to be her current surname in the Third period?

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    • I don't think we should. In the relationship chart, the entire name "Michael Arklow" is in parenthesis by itself, whereas Michaela is on its own. Compare Gumillia, whose surname is just affixed to her name with no parenthesis or anything. Especially considering we don't have full info from the novel, I think we should just treat them as two unconnected names at this point (like how Elluka and Levia and Nemesis don't share a name).

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    • Aren't reincarnations usually given their own page though? Shouldn't Michael Arklow be given his own page (given he has enough information for one) and have it mention he reincarnated into Michaela (especially since it seems Michaela doesn't remember being Michael)?

      Or am I misundertanding the wikia policy?

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    • that depends on if becoming a forest spirit is the same (or similar) process as being reborn, which we don't know if it is or not. that's part of the reason why we want to wait, so we can get more information about the reveal

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    • If we're doing anything, we'd be adding Michael Arklow as a redirect.

      If Michael is enough of his own character and is distinct enough from Michaela (and all that stuff Tobimisa said) yeah, he'd get his own page. But if Michael is just a backstory note for Michaela (i.e. we don't get any more information than that Michael is Lich's older brother and gets killed) it'd be simpler to keep them on the same page.

      We didn't make a separate page for Lich, Gumillia, or Eater's Second Period backstories for the same reason that we don't know if becoming a Forest Spirit is the same as becoming a completely new person like in most other reincarnations or just a matter of losing one's memories and gender I guess. That and there wasn't a lot of info to justify one.

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    • Chapter 2 is up, we get a lot of exposition. Guess that solves the "alternate world wasn't mentioned anywhere else" issue.

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    • Nice, lots of exposition. I wonder, why is Gammon not targeting Gallerian or Margarita? I mean, Gammon and Margarita are probably colluding (as seen in the cover art and character profiles) but doesn't Gammon really hate Gallerian?

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    • if I had to guess it might have something to do with gammon staying with ma in the theater for so long. he certainly didn't seem to like her in capriccio farce, and he might have learned enough about the situation to understand that gallerian's actions were all being puppeted by her. though she's already gone now thanks to her being an amalgam, so she doesn't need to be on the hit list

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    • It says pretty clearly in the infomine that Gammon is after the deadly sin contracters

      Both Gallerian and Margarita technically have nothing to do with the Demons of Sin 

      Gallerian didn't contract with the Demon of Greed and Eve isn't a real demon so he has no reason to go after either of them

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    • Ah, yeah that slipped my mind. Thanks for pointing that out, anon. I really thought Gammon had omitted them for more personal reasons.

      It says that Gumillia's current outfit is Kayo's handiwork - does that mean she made the outfit all the way back in EC 842 after she died? That's the implication I seem to be getting, since Gumillia appears in SCaP already in her cape and hood.

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    • It doesn't necessarily have to be immediately after she died, but yeah. Kayo seems to have been with Gumillia the entire time.

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    • price posted the infomine for chapter 3

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    • Reactions:

      • Glad to see that the demons are still involved, and why the Tasan Party soldiers are targeting the main characters in particular. I wonder, is Mikina the most compatible contractor for Salem?
      • The implication here seems to be that Rahab is Marie's aunt, making Marie Levia's cousin. I'm really hoping Marie is also a Rin character.
      • So Riliane is immune to Margarita's Gift? Hmm, that's hinting at something that she and Allen are special in some way. I mean, we already have Riliane repeatedly reincarnating despite not being one of the Twins of God.
        • On a side note, this may be further evidence of my theory that Arth is an incarnated forest spirit.
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    • When SCaP got out I never thought about this, but if Josephine is appearing as a "soul" (because it's not alive), that means that animals have souls. Where are all those souls when the world ends? Do they go to the heavily or the hellish yard? 

      Imagine the ground world not only with the countless souls of the humans, but fulls of the souls of ALL the animals that have ever existed XD

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    • Rilliane mentions that she lived in te theatre. This seems to confirm her as Waiter.

      Would be a relation between Postman and Waiter? They should exist in similar time.

      Also, Kyle is mentioned. In SCaP, he didn't appear.


      GreekTelepath wrote:

      • The implication here seems to be that Rahab is Marie's aunt, making Marie Levia's cousin. I'm really hoping Marie is also a Rin character.

      I really doubt this. So far, all Lin characters had a reason to their look.

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    • -I don't think Rahab is necessarily Marie's aunt. It could just be an affectionate term, like how Riliane calls Kyle "big brother". In fact I'd say that's more likely.

      -So far, the novel seems to be suggesting that Riliane's connection to the theater is her brief stay there as Postman. In that case I imagine she is either A) Not Waiter or B) her being Waiter will be a reveal of some sort (which will explain the logistics of them being in the same place at the same time).

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    • But....Kayo was the daughter of the Demon of Envy inside of the body of a human...and Kayo is not a contractor herself... So why is it that Gammon is trying to kill her?

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    • 107.77.68.88 wrote: But....Kayo was the daughter of the Demon of Envy inside of the body of a human...and Kayo is not a contractor herself... So why is it that Gammon is trying to kill her?

      Kayo is daughter of the Demon of Envy. If I'm not mistaken the demon of Envy (Rahab) took a human form, she was not possesing a human body. So Kayo is daugter of a Demon.

      This gave Kayo similar abilities of a contractor.

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    • Hoshi mew, It's likely that Josephine is nothing more than Clarith's illusion, much like Riliane's illusory palace. After all, the world is mentioned to be a barren wasteland, which, if the souls of all previously alive animals were present, probably wouldn't look like that. From another point of view, the souls are walking spirit data. Do the gods have any purpose for storing the spirit data of animals?

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    • Josephine can't just be an illusion because she was given Michaela's blessing to protect her from Gift. You wouldn't need to do that if it wasn't a seperate functioning soul.

      It's possible that the animals are all stored someplace else when they die, but Josephine was fetched for Clarith to use because 1. She's a very good horse and 2. Riliane/Rin had a special attachment to her.

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    • Rahab was possessing a human body (Kagura) when she had Kayo, however it seems that her being a demonic soul still had an influence on her--enough that she qualifies as a contractor in most respects despite never making a contract.

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    • On a different note,

      She suggests waiting, and Riliane doesn’t seem positive she wants to do that. ... [Riliane]'s sick of waiting, especially with how much Allen has done for her.

      Could be an allusion to Waiter?

      [Edit: Just fixed the formatting]

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    • Sorry Octo, can you find me the quote from the infomine that says Josephine received Michaela's blessing? I can't find it.

      [Not trying to be sarcastic www just wanted to see where it was]

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    • It's not in this book, it was in the SCaP "infomine" Servant did. This one.

      "Clarith: Please get on behind me. Josephine's soul's currently receiving Michaela's blessing. With this horse, we can get to Elphegort immediately."

      And later Clarith clarifies that she also has Michaela's blessing, ergo they both needed separate blessings.

      Assuming that Servant had basic accuracy there, Josephine is not just an illusion or at least mothy doesn't want us to have that impression.

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    • in the 2nd chapter, Price's infomine says a large man appeared by Banica's/MOTG's side who became a giant skeleton called the World Eater/Worldeater (not sure if the spacing is important or not)

      so this means Eater Sabella is the Worldeater monster, turning into it is an ability of his, and Banica met Lich and Eater (as they stuck to each other) probably sometime before Fifth Pierrot, at the very least some time before the Duel at Merrigod since that's where we've first seen Worldeater

      would that count as Eater's first appearance since he's not really turning into someone else, persay?

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    • Banica calls the Worldeater the "ultimate corpse soldier", while Lich and Eater are technically corpse soldiers but have the souls of forest spirits. Eater is also absent from the character profiles despite having a major role alongside Lich, so I find it very possible that Eater has shapeshifting powers and can turn into Worldeater.

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    • Chapter 4 has been posted (X)

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    • There is a person that still didn't appear: Where is Irina?

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    • Oh, she'll be there. Not yet though.

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    • Personally, I'm just wondering why Kyle is there at all. The song mentions Gear by name so it seems kind of odd that another Adam reincaration is just casually walking around at the same time.

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    • Kyle and Adam are two seperate people, are they not?

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    • Kyle was never explicitly said to be an Adam reincarnation, so the oddity is only a result of our assumptions

      for all we know Kyle could be the result of another Lucif twin plot development (being related to a reincarnation of Adam instead of being the reincarnation himself)

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    • Yes, that's true. If I were to speculate, I'd say that Kyle and the rest of the Marlon line draw blood from the illegitimate child Maria birthed that the Senate dumped into the river.

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    • I don't know. We'll have to see, tbh. Kyle is the only one aside from Adam himself to be called Soul of Adam, and if it were just a Marlon line thing I think we'd have seen it mentioned elsewhere if it weren't meant to be a thing. So it's not entirely our assumptions there, Mothy made a point of the parallel, so maybe it'll finally be addressed.

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    • Perhaps they're connected in some way, but wouldn't it be impossible for Kyle to be a reincarnation of Adam? As far as we know, the only people who can reincarnate are Hansel and Gretel (and Riliane and Allen, for some reason.) And if I'm correct, Adam would still be in Grim the End when Kyle is born, and he makes the contract with Clarith when Kyle is still alive. I could be wrong though, Evillious is unpredictable. :P

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    • It's certainly a question to ask, and something I've been stumped on BECAUSE we know where Adam is at the time that Kyle exists. So we don't really know how they're connected or why. Just that both Gear and Kyle are called "soul of Adam" at one point by the same person.

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    • I mean, it could be "soul of Adam" as in "You look like and are similar to Adam". That is also a possibility (though it is unlikely I think).

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    • 66.139.155.126 wrote: It's certainly a question to ask, and something I've been stumped on BECAUSE we know where Adam is at the time that Kyle exists. So we don't really know how they're connected or why. Just that both Gear and Kyle are called "soul of Adam" at one point by the same person.

      In the case of Gear, he is literally the Soul of Adam.

      However, I'm also curious about Kyle. I hope we can see an answer at some point.

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    • 2602:301:77AD:9270:D54F:BAE7:2932:FD9 wrote:
      I mean, it could be "soul of Adam" as in "You look like and are similar to Adam". That is also a possibility (though it is unlikely I think).

      Again, it only ever came up with Kyle, so I think that's what's tripping us up. Conchita never commented on Gallerian's similarity, for example.

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    • Just because it didn't happen with any other character doesn't discount what I said as a possibility. For now, we know that Adam was in the key at the same time as Kyle was around. Therefore he could not possibly be a reincarnation. Ergo, we misunderstood the term "Soul of Adam" in some way. If it was just meant to be a comment on Kyle as a person, rather than dropping hints about his "true nature", then I think "you're like Adam" makes the most sense.

      I mean, among all the Kaito characters, Kyle is the most like Adam, what with having mother issues, son of a ruler, developing an infatuation with a Miku character, doing evil before trying to atone, etc. It's possible no one said "You're the soul of Adam" to people like Gallerian because he just doesn't fit the bill like Kyle does.

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    • While it's possible, it's a noted absence of something that can far too easily be confused for something meaningful and if it was just a comment on that, I especially find it hilarious that Gallerian wasn't mentioned when he DEFINITELY fits the bill similarly (fighting injustices because of his mother's supposed fate, while not actually royalty he's definitely descended from it as a Marlon, he's obsessed with his Miku look-alike daughter, and he delves into sin and the only thing missing is the atoning), so I definitely find it odd that she would call Kyle "Soul of Adam", but not even mention it in regards to Gallerian if it's meant to be a remark on similarities.

      Also: we've mostly just left it at a vague "some kind of connection" and not just reincarnation. :V Given the presence of Spirit Data, for all we know his soul's some kind of base copy of Adam's. (Just as an example of other options for connections besides explicit reincarnation.)

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    • Next chapter is up, lots of stuff happens in this one.

      I wonder if Prim actually is a "contractor of Sloth" or if Gumillia is just going around assigning these things to people so she can put them in Hell. I mean the chapter just admits that the Sloth Demon isn't a thing. But then Prim did seem to have a thing going with the doll so 0 0

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    • I know I said I'm gonna keep silent here, but I just wanna let you know that the infomine for chapter 5 is out: http://pricechecktranslations.tumblr.com/post/167962390180/dsoe-mothy-chapter-5-blackbox

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    • It does also mention Eve is just as powerful, though, so it may count on a technicality like Kayo did.

      I wonder if that's all that's mentioned about Michaela being Michael.

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    • Yeah. I mean it's not like Gumillia is totally impartial, she did give Kayo a free pass solely because she looks like Elluka.

      It's not all that's mentioned about Michael/Michaela, but that's in a much later chapter so we'll get to it when we get to it.

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      • Hmm, I thought the EFEC novel explicitly mentioned that Eve doesn't perform contracts? Although maybe Prim's a special case.
      • Where the heck is Eve? The impression I'm getting is that Eve got out of the Doll again after Hänsel sucked her inside it in SCaP.
      • Okay, I'm glad we finally get a clear view of what happened with Arth.
      • It seems that Michael is indeed Michaela. Nice to get that confirmed.

      Now, I know the issue of being transgender is a personal topic for some people in the fandom, so I'd like to remind everyone that this wiki stands for fairness and democracy. I don't want any fights on this thread, so even if you think you're in the right, keep things civil. Octo and I monitor this thread constantly, and we aren't afraid to step in when things get too heated. Just a reminder.

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    • A little and interesting detail:

      Ma has a own soul and this still exist.

      It seems the theory that she is independent of her parts is right.

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    • 1. Ma having a soul is still up for debate, Riliane and Michaela don't exactly have perfect knowledge on this matter.

      2. I personally think anything to do with Michael and Michaela should wait until we have all the information available on the topic. Lich talks about it a little in the Re_Birthday Truth chapter.

      3. I think we should consider at some point looking into SCAP again, as there seem to be some inconsistencies (like Eve supposedly being sucked in the doll in SCAP but also not in the doll now). It's possible they're cleared up later, but it just feels strange.

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    • I'm honestly just glad to see that Prim's getting what she deserves. Although, it makes me wonder if the "contract" she preformed with Sloth actually barred her from the Heavenly Yard in the first place, or if Gumillia's just deciding on her own judgement that she's a contractor (or just as bad as one) because she tried to use Eve's power.

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    • So it's confirmed Michaela is Michael? I thought the rules said you can only reincarnate into a body if the gender matches your original genger. Isn't that the reason Ma did not use the body-swap technique on Gallerian to purge Levia?

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    • Technically speaking, "Michael"'s first reincarnation wasn't into Michaela, but into being a genderless spirit, so I'm not sure the same problem applies.

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    • It's tricky because Michaela is the only example we have. (Which, personally, speaks volumes to me but. That's just personally.)

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    • I mean, not really. Everyone who was made into a spirit became genderless, it's not unique to Michaela.

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    • Gumillia: Female -> Genderless -> Female

      Lich: Male -> Genderless -> Male

      Michaela: Male -> Genderless -> Female

      That's a pretty unique case given that none of the others transitioned from one sex to genderless to the opposite.

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    • It could have just as easily been the other way around. It was explicitly stated when Elluka was reincarnating them that they could become male too, so it could have been Gumillia going from one sex to genderless to the opposite. What they were in their Second Period incarnation has no impact on what they could reincarnate as after becoming spirits (which was the original point of this comment thread, the above anon wondering about the logistics as gender has been a reincarnation barrier in the past). The case is unique by coincendence, not design.

      What it implies or doesn't imply is a conversation for later, but this is just the point I was making.

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    • What is the japanese word mothy uses to describe "gender"? Because we might have mistranslated it it could have been sex.

      Because If we're goign with sex with could just do male -> Sexless -> female on Michaela but if it's gender it feels safer to just put down "female"

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    • Chapter 6:

      http://pricechecktranslations.tumblr.com/post/167984618825/dsoe-mothy-chapter-6-not-eve

      The isuue of Michelle/Eve is pretty interesting. Although Clockworker Doll seems to be in the theatre.

      It seems to be a relation between Prim and Eve. I wonder if Margaret could be related.


      PS: The events of SCaP are mentioned.

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    • 性別 (it can be translated as either or). But it's irrelevant to the discussion. Forest spirits are sexless (in their natural state they have no bodies) and genderless (use of gender neutral pronouns, Elluka noting her usage of gendered pronouns is inaccurate, Gumillia stating they can reincarnate as either male or female, etc). With the information that we have, her time as a spirit doesn't seem to have any bearing on her sex or gender in the Second Period or her time as a human in the Third Period.

      I'm also not sure I understand what you're suggesting we do. If the text says she was genderless you think we should remove "genderless" from her gender profile? If the text says she was sexless we should put her sex down under the gender category?

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      • I say we simply list Michaela as being Male, then Genderless, then Female. Case closed.
      • Hmm, is Michelle a contractor of Eve somehow? Or maybe she's a fragment of Eve's soul. I'm a bit confused. Also, Gallerian still seems to be evil, which is cool.
      • Sateriasis seems to be more of a gentleman now, which is some interesting character development.
      • I love Kayo. She honestly seems remorseful for her actions and genuinely wants to help.
      • Honestly Gumillia you should be doing a better job
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    • To be fair to Gumillia, she mostly just has Seth helping her > >

      Looks like Allen and Riliane are equally important for being abberations (mud hybrids). I wonder if Sickle had the same misconception Rahab did that letting them meet would be a bad thing? It is odd that he didn't zero in on Riliane like he did Allen, but maybe he didn't get the chance to.

      Also, I don't know if the wiki is doing this for everybody, but all of the anon IP addresses have become the same string of numbers for me and a few others. Would anons mind terribly signing their posts from now on? You don't have to use a real name or anything, just "the [Blank] Anon" would do. 

      That or someone tell me why this is happening plz

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    • I agree on Michela being listed as Male -> Genderless -> Female and also when it comes to subject I know that it is a hot topic for obvious reasons but the thread keeps coming back to it and going in the same circles over and over. Can we please drop it from discussion until the novel is finished being infomined and then bring it back up for discussion on what she is considered. I want the topic to be resolved but we are working with limited info and assumptions keep being made and again it's going in circles. 

      For the whole Eve/Michelle thing I'm really curious because Ma wouldn't willingly give up one of the "Demons" into Gallerian's daughter that easy. I think someone mentioned earlier here or somewhere on tumblr about copying spirit data and I wonder if Ma found a way to make copies of people like making a copy of Eve's soul and putting it in Mira's child. I think this could also explain things like Irregular. I always kind of had a theory he was a copy of Allen being made by the theater inhabitants. Anyway I'm going on a lot. Can't wait for the next chapter! 

      - Sloth Anon

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    • You make some good points, Sloth Anon. In line with this thread's objective of productive dialogue, discussion on Michaela's gender identity is hereby closed until Price finishes infomining the novel.

      And yes, personally, I do find your theory holding water. Ma probably saw some use of Eve when it came to manipulating Gallerian, but at the same time didn't want to give her up as a component of her soul, and so the logical thing would be to create a copy of spirit data.

      Edit: There's also the fact that the Doll was on the Titanis around the time that it sank. I wonder if that fact is relevant somehow.

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    • To me it seems like Michelle was more of an experiment than something Ma actually was using to manipulate Gellerian mainly because I don't remember Ma actually caring that much about Michelle dying which gives me the indication at least she wasn't important and just served to prove a theory of Ma's, which she did successfully. 

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    • RoseZephyrOcean: I find it weird that I liked Gallarian more of during the end of the Judgement of Corruption light Novel/his chapter in the Muzzle of Nemesis Light Novel in comparision to his appearance in Seven Crimes and Punishments Short Story and The Master of the Heavenly Yard Novel...Also....since when Gallarian has been a gunslinger?

      Also,does anyone have the pictures of Kyle's Demon Form(From Black Box Chapter), Gallarian Margarita Duo, and Master of The Graveyard(From Not Eve Chapter) as shown in the Master of the Heavenly Yard Novel? 



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    • Some of the picture seem to be already available in pinterest (i saw it on tumblr) and if I remember correctly, it was the one with Arth, rilliane kayo saterias, allen and rilliane, and master of the graveyard,

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    • So, does it mean the moon goddes is the one giving him order?

      At least now we know how the banica, arte, and pollo could have a body

      -Yuu

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    • So I remember awhile back that I said we couldn't assume that the Sleep Princess was Margarita/Eve because it never explicitly said it was and was shot down with, "That's to avoid spoilers for Sloth." ...I'm gonna sit over here and feel extremely vindicated. (...I have no idea what to call myself as an anon, sorry. ;w; )

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    • I don't think there's any illustration in the book that has all those characters together at the same time. Which one are you talking about?

      I don't think Moon Goddess ordered him to do anything. I think it's more implied Gallerian took the information from her somehow.

      -Tea anon

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    • Well, this chapter answer some of our doubts. Waiter was another body for Rilliane. Also, Master of the Court was Irina.

      Now, the new Adam and the new Eve. I suppose the New Adam is the Irregular in the theatre, right?

      Would the new Eve be a Rin character?

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    • I read a more clear explanation of Price about the new Adam and the new Eve:

      Clockworker Doll did not give birth to Adam and Eve. She gave birth to twins (which she named Adam and Eve). They died before they could mature, so they had no will. They were later merged with Adam and Eve’s souls.

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    • Also this means we can FINALLY put to rest the idea that Adam, against all logic to how much knowledge he has on his mother, is the child Maria threw into the river. Because the child is explicitly an Irregular and thus blond. (Unknwon Anon here.)

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    • 121.58.232.35 wrote: So I remember awhile back that I said we couldn't assume that the Sleep Princess was Margarita/Eve because it never explicitly said it was and was shot down with, "That's to avoid spoilers for Sloth." ...I'm gonna sit over here and feel extremely vindicated. (...I have no idea what to call myself as an anon, sorry. ;w; )

      In fairness to the wiki, the assumption that the “Sleep Princess” in SCaP was indeed Eve/Margarita was fair, for the following reasons:

      • The SCaP story features the seven demon contractors
      • Hänsel and Sleep Princess address each other as mother and son
      • Eve, at that point, was the only one known to be able to control Gift
      • Sleep Princess is literally shown with the appearance of Margarita

      The wiki made a fair assumption, that just so happened to be wrong. The Evillious Chronicles has a lot of twists that function based on people’s assumptions, so it’s only natural that the wiki makes the occasional mistake. If you don’t like your wild guesses being “shot down” by careful, logical discussion, then I advise you to take your theories elsewhere.

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    • Your attitude there at the end is coming off as kind of hostile, GT. I was pointing out it was kind of funny since this was brought up right after the reveal with Gumillia being the Master of the Hellish Yard after careful assumptions that it was only Nemesis and that I said it might have been safer to not assume identities after that. Kind of like how we USED to not refer to Grave as Conchita despite it feeling obvious (and yes, I've been here long enough that there was a time we DIDN'T refer to them as the same person). ESPECIALLY since this was after the wikia had already been wrong a few times on similar assumptions, like with Court's Irregular and Allen (who look almost exactly alike, right down to the clothes) not actually being the same person despite assumptions, so I questioned if we could really say for sure she WAS Eve and asked if it would instead be safer to separate until confirmation. It wasn't a theory, it was pointing out a pattern of Mothy's such that, until we got confirmation, we couldn't assume Sleep Princess was Eve. Lo and behold, she was Michelle.

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    • Wait wth is going on??? If sleep princess is michelle who is margarita?

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    • In the end: Rilliane, what did you do?

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    • Margarita is Eve. I'm not really sure if Sleep Princess was Michelle, though. Also not sure where Eve has been until now, since apparently she isn't Sleep Princess. (I haven't kept up with things the greatest and only found this thread by chance. So please correct me if I'm wrong somewhere.)

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    • The Sleep Princess we see in SCAP and MOTHY novel (who is consistently called just Sleep Princess) was revealed in the latest info mined chapters to be actually Michelle Marlon, who made a contract with Eve Moonlit. Eve's soul was merged with that of the new Eve, who is Court's child (along with a new Adam who was merged with Adam's soul). That's what's being discussed.

      MARGARITA is Eve, yes. There's basically two Sleep Princesses, it just depends where on the timeline you are.

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    • So "Irregular" is "Adam" now?

      Also does this finally mean we can merge motg and banica's pages now that we know it isn't reincarnation also maybe we should merge hänsel and gretels with the servants

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    • So the Sleep Princess has Eve's sorta-demonic powers, but Eve's soul is in a baby now? I suppose it works.

      But if Doll!Michelle's soul is actually Irina, does that mean SP is Irina's soul with Eve's powers? And she's passing as Gallerian's daughter?


      -brioche anon

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    • Mothy just uploaded a list of his songs and he points out which are lyllaby songs but an interesting thing is that he names Recollective Music Box "Clockwork Lullaby R" and Screw Gear and Pride "Clockwork Lullaby A"

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote: So "Irregular" is "Adam" now?

      Yeah.

      Although Irregular in Capriccio Farce (and probably SCaP) wasn't Adam yet. Irregular fused with Adam's soul to gain a will.

      The curious is that he has a sister (who is another Irregular and fused with Eve's soul).

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    • 132.184.131.46 wrote: But if Doll!Michelle's soul is actually Irina, does that mean SP is Irina's soul with Eve's powers? And she's passing as Gallerian's daughter?

      It doesn't seem to be the case.

      Irina was the Master of the Court, but Sleep Princess is not her.

      Sleep Princess seem to be the real Michelle, who made a contract with Eve.

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    • It's complicated because Court's Irregulars appear to ALSO bear the names Adam and Eve, as it seems she named them BEFORE the world ended if I'm reading this correctly. So we have Adam and Eve, then Adam Moonlit and Eve Moonlit. ...Hoo boy this will be confusing.

      Also, Sleep Princess is the Real Michelle, not Court/Irina, yeah. - Cat anon (figured it out)

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      • We can have minor character sections for the infant Adam and Eve somewhere, and then say they fused with the actual Adam and Eve Moonlit at some point. It seems to be the least complicated way to explain things.
      • I'm pleasantly surprised Michelle is acting as an antagonist. I always thought she'd be a one-off character made for the sake of serving as Gallerian's motivation for corruption, but it seems she's evil in her own right.
      • I propose we have Master of the Court listed as Irina's reincarnation, since Irina lost her memories and took on a new identity.
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    • GreekTelepath
      GreekTelepath removed this reply because:
      Double post
      15:08, November 29, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Another thing, in Muzzle of Nemesis, it was mentioned that the Blue Flames, which Master of the Court used, is exclusive magic of Irina (this was a big hint).

      However, there was a debate in the forum because the Marlon Spoon used Blue Flames in Story of Evil. This is confuse, but I guess Marlon Spoon used this magic for some modification of Irina (who has the spoon for some time).

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    • It seems as though Levia and Irina just can't escape being sort-of sisters. First, Levia takes on the identity of Irina's sister in law, then Irina takes on the identity of Nemesis' half sister

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    • I'm sure we'll get more expansion on Eve and Michelle's connection but that was really a nice twist with Michelle being Sleep Princess. Also I'm really starting to wonder how SCaP goes with all this because everything seems to be really messy from what we know. I mean we had Sleep Princess and Hansel which I assume Michelle was being taken over by Eve's power at the time. And also I'm wondering when Gear and Adam? became one since Adam? appears at the end of SCaP so I wonder how much time passed between SCaP and MotHY

      - Sloth Anon

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    • 2600:1700:B4C0:8D40:B1F1:96AE:EE72:C0FD wrote: And also I'm wondering when Gear and Adam? became one since Adam? appears at the end of SCaP so I wonder how much time passed between SCaP and MotHY

      - Sloth Anon

      Gear was always Adam. It isn't said directly (except when Conchita called him the Soul of Adam), but this is clear in Judgment of Corruption novel.

      Adam didn't appear in SCaP.

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    • 2600:1700:B4C0:8D40:B1F1:96AE:EE72:C0FD wrote:
      I'm sure we'll get more expansion on Eve and Michelle's connection but that was really a nice twist with Michelle being Sleep Princess. Also I'm really starting to wonder how SCaP goes with all this because everything seems to be really messy from what we know. I mean we had Sleep Princess and Hansel which I assume Michelle was being taken over by Eve's power at the time. And also I'm wondering when Gear and Adam? became one since Adam? appears at the end of SCaP so I wonder how much time passed between SCaP and MotHY

      - Sloth Anon

      The events of SCaP (Allen visiting the contractos) had been mentioned in previous chapters of this novel.

      Gear was always Adam. It isn't said directly (except when Conchita called him the Soul of Adam), but this is clear in Corruption Judgment novel.

      Adam didn't appear in SCaP.

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    • Tobimisa
      Tobimisa removed this reply because:
      it's been corrected enough :b
      17:43, November 29, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • When I say Adam I was referring to Master of the Court's child not Adam Moonlit and yes I know the events of SCaP have been mentioned in previous chapters. I was wondering how much time passed between the body of Nemesis activating Punishment and Levia returning to her body and meeting Allen because Master of the Court's child still lacks a self in SCaP which means he still hadn't become one with Adam Moonlit like he is in MotHY

      This also means that the Sleep Princess in SCaP may actually still be Eve Moonlit as if Adam Moonlit didn't become one with the child yet it's possible Eve didn't either. 

      - Sloth Anon

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    • So if Waiter really was Rilliane with a body that Arte/Gretel made, doesn't that mean she's not the witer from Lich's resturaunt?

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    • Waiter*

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    • I'm with Sloth Anon. I would buy Michelle was Sleep Princess in SCaP, but there was an entire scene dedicated to establishing that Eve in SCaP was the Sleep Princess at the time. If he was looking for a big reveal of 'Michelle is Sleep Princess' he could have written that scene entirely different. Why waste all that time?. Besides, characters sharing the same title at this point has become a running theme. 

      -Wrath Anon

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    • 2602:301:77AD:9270:65D6:1485:A2EB:97B4 wrote: I don't think there's any illustration in the book that has all those characters together at the same time. Which one are you talking about?

      -Tea anon

      Sorry I did not mean all of those characters all in one single illustration. I was referring to the illustrations of the MotHY's novel as listed from Price Check's information mine of the Black Box and Not Eve chapters. -Rose Zephyr Ocean Anon

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    • I'm just confused as to what Kyle is now, seeing how Gear is now confirmed to be Adam and Kyle had the exact same term applied to him but seems to be his own person. Was Banica just wrong when she called him the Soul of Adam or has Kyle's identity seperated from Adam in some way?

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    • GreekTelepath
      GreekTelepath removed this reply because:
      Reply is not relevant to thread; new discussion started in other thread
      20:12, November 29, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • A counterpoint to anon: perhaps Banica was mistaken when she called Kyle "this era's soul of Adam". Nobody else calls him that, so maybe Banica just made a wrong assumption. We've had characters who are in-the-know make mistakes before, such as Rahab thinking Riliane and Allen meeting would cause a catastrophe.

      Also, I just realized that our information that Eve doesn't/can't perform contracts is from Servy's "infomine" of the EFEC novel. It seems that Eve is in fact capable of making contracts, as shown with Prim and Michelle.

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    • I'm gonna go ahead and ask but what infomine is it that gave us Banica calling Kyle the "Soul of Adam" and what was the full context and meaning of the line? 

      I wasn't around for that time but if it was Servy's infomine or another untrustworthy source that also gave us that info then perhaps we should reexamine it again. If it was from a reliable infomine then let's move forward and actually discuss how Kyle could be the Soul of Adam without actually being Adam. I am so far on board with Greek's view above. Or perhaps there is a third Adam and Kyle is the reincarnation of Maria's irregular child since that's an irregular we haven't seen reincarnating. I don't actually believe that but putting more ideas out there.

      - Sloth Anon

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    • The information was directly added to the pages without an infomine being shown. Basically, the context is:

      • Kyle is dreaming
      • He wakes up inside what appears to be a large black box, Banica and Ney are there
      • Banica explains that Ney would have been born as Riliane
      • Banica takes Ney away, as part of her foundation as "Master of the Graveyard"
      • Kyle pleas for them to stay; Banica bids him goodbye and calls him "this era's soul of Adam"

      Of course, Servy could be getting a lot of things wrong, since he has no proficiency in Japanese. Perhaps now would be a good time to discuss this issue, so we can fully understand the situation with Kyle.

      My personal addition to the discussion is this: in the EFEC novel, Banica calls Gallerian "the gear who fell into the trap". This brings up parallels with Gear (who's later revealed to be Adam); Banica in Capriccio Farce calls him "the soul of Adam who fell into the trap". Banica could just be likening Gallerian to Adam (they do have parallels) so maybe in Praefacio, Banica is doing the same: comparing Kyle to Adam.

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    • New anon here, who is just here for one small message : about the "Eve can't perform contracts". GreekTelepath, you mentionned that it comes from the infomines of EFEC. If I remember well, the infomine only said that the "Sloth Demon" at the time wasn't making contracts, or rather it wasn't its habit. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm remembering that as "the Sloth demon doesn't like/doesn't have an habit to make contracts" and not "the Sloth demon can't make contract". Since, you know, it's the "sloth" demon and so ...

      And then, with the revelation of the Sloth demon being Eve, we (or maybe it was Elluka in her narration of Gift ?) assumed that if she wasn't making contracts it was because she was a human, and not a real demon. 


      Well, like I said maybe all of that is wrong (sorry but I don't have the time to check the original EFEC infomines). It's just the way I remembered it


      - New anon 

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    • Ah, yes I think you're correct anon. Once the Gift novel revealed that the Demon of Sloth was Eve, we assumed that the reason she didn't make contracts was that she couldn't. However, we know from the JoC novel that human souls can make demon contracts, as with the case with the contract between Adam and Gallerian. Thanks for pointing out the flaw in our logic.

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    • Keep in mind that the main source we have for SCaP Infomine is Servy. However, given that we directly connect the events in the Lucifenia Palace here with what happened in SCaP, I don't think that much time passed? Riliane talks about how everyone had just collapsed recently or something? Nevermind then we have to figure out how Sleep Princess went from being in the doll to being in Eve 2.0.

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    • Reactions:

      • So Ma pulled an Elluka and harbored her soul within Riliane.
      • I honestly wonder why Michelle is the most "compatible" contractor for Sloth. I wish we saw more of her evil side in the JoC novel.
      • Ma appears to have the powers of the demons (and Eve) at her disposal - Kayo has fish scales, while Eve has lightning.
      • Adam seems to have a power with his heart; he did this in Heartbeat Clocktower and seems to be gearing (no pun intended) to do it again.
      • Behemo seems to be somewhere in the wasteland. I'm honestly just glad he's okay.
      • Rahab appears to also have Purple Dream. Hmm, I wonder if the Loop Octopus Clan are inheritors of Rahab.

      Regarding the whole Sleep Princess ordeal, this is my understanding:

      • Michelle contracted with Eve, took on the guise of Margarita and did everything she did in SCaP all while channeling Eve's personality.
      • Michelle got sealed within the Doll, but go out again soon after, leading to her actions in this novel.
      • While all this is happening, the real Eve merged with the female twin birthed by Irina.
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    • That was pretty good. I'm excited to see the image of young Eve and Adam as price said they aren't represented by Rin and Len (thank god). Also I'm assuming the boy at the end of the chapter is Behemo. It'd be nice to finally see what he's been up to and where he is. 

      - Sloth

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    • An interesting detail of Price:

      http://pricechecktranslations.tumblr.com/post/168023900050/so-are-kid-adam-and-eve-represented-by-rin-and

      The new Adam and the new Eve aren't Len and Rin characters. They look like tiny kids version of original Adam and Eve.

      Price theorize that their looks may change when their souls fused.

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    • --Just a clarification, Ma has no soul. She's more like a consciousness. I don't know what we'd call what she is, but that's explored in more depth next chapter.

      -Tea anon

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    • Did Price say she thinks they'd be a smaller Kaito and Miku, or is it implied/said in the text?

      It seems to me it's just her guess. Personally, I'd prefer a tiny Kaito and Miku over another Rin and Len but as the image is in b/w, we can't really tell.

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    • Scarletta Agni wrote: Did Price say she thinks they'd be a smaller Kaito and Miku, or is it implied/said in the text?

      It seems to me it's just her guess. Personally, I'd prefer a tiny Kaito and Miku over another Rin and Len but as the image is in b/w, we can't really tell.

      There is a picture of the New Adam and Eve in the novel.

      Price seems totally secure, so they really should look similar (including hairstyles).

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    • The only thing price seems to be unsure about is whether they are blonde or not

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    • 132.184.128.174 wrote:

      Scarletta Agni wrote: Did Price say she thinks they'd be a smaller Kaito and Miku, or is it implied/said in the text?

      It seems to me it's just her guess. Personally, I'd prefer a tiny Kaito and Miku over another Rin and Len but as the image is in b/w, we can't really tell.

      There is a picture of the New Adam and Eve in the novel.

      Price seems totally secure, so they really should look similar (including hairstyles).

      That's not what I'm saying. I'm talking exclusively in hair color, not hairstyle.

      So yeah, Price said she's unsure if they're blond or not.

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    • That's not what I'm saying. I'm talking exclusively in hair color, not hairstyle.

      So yeah, Price said she's unsure if they're blond or not.

      It's true, we can be sure about the hair.

      In any case, new Adam and new Eve can be a blond Kaito and a blond Miku. After all, we have a blond Luka in Elluka original body.

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    • I can't really comment meaningfully on the hair thing, but as for eve being able to make contracts I think it's worth pointing out that adam couldn't make contracts on his own before but gained the ability to do so by the time the greed novel rolled around. so there's a posibility that the same is true for eve

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    • Considering Irina was able to give Eve the ability to conjure the Court I wouldn't be surprised if she was able to give her the ability to make demon contracts.

      Also Chapter 9  is up

      http://pricechecktranslations.tumblr.com/post/168026429835/dsoe-mothy-chapter-9-the-pure-evil

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      • I never expected Ma to be so sympathetic. I always thought of her "survive at all costs" goal to be more of selfish, but thanks to the chapter, it's made me realize: Ma is nothing, and she just wants to be something.
      • The "Re_birthday" seems to be a great event, most probably a reformatting of souls. I'm led to believe that Re_birthday is, in fact, Allen inside Black Box after everything is over, being purified to meet with Riliane.
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    • I'm not so sure, GT, let's see what's going to happen before you assume something. I'm not even sure how purifying would even help as it would wipe him away to nothing--he wouldn't be ALLEN anymore. It's a factory reset, basically. Allen would disappear and a new person would exist in his place, because Allen would be wiped to a completely blank slate.

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    • I'm trying not to assume things - that's why I worded my post very carefully, anon. I acknowledge that there's a flaw in my reasoning; indeed, let's wait this out and see what happens.

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    • Keep in mind, reformatting could work different for those who are Irregular-- they are outside the rules of the third period; the rules of the gods.

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    • I'm really liking how mothy went with writing Ma. He could have simply wrote her as a fusion of the three and nothing more but he went with making her something that seems beyond human comprehension y'know? She herself is like an irregularity and something that shouldn't exist.

      Anyway I don't think Allen's form of Re_Birthday is gonna be a reformatting because the whole reformatting seems to be the goal of the Court Ending since everyone would be judged and reset and I'd assume this is gonna be going along to whatever the Heavenly Ending would be. 

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    • I've always wondered about Chirclatia being blonde. Think it might be relevant given the sudden importance of being blonde?

      I kinda spitballed the idea that maybe she was that virgin birth left to drown in the river but idk

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    • The virgin who gave birth by the river is Maria Moonlit, rather explicitly.

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    • I'm pretty sure scarletta is speculating that that chirclatia is the child that resulted from the virgin birth, not the person who had the virgin birth.

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    • Ah. It's possible. That would make her Adam's sister. Huh.

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    • This might be a strange theory but what if Allen is Maria's first child? Sickle focused more on Allen most of the time rather than Riliane and it'd make sense with the parallels Allen has to Jesus and stuff and it could be completely possible the baby died when he was thrown into the river and thus Allen wouldn't remember it or be able to take on that form as the baby never formed an ego of his own in that life. 

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    • Idk I was just thinking really hard but is it possible that maybe Ma stuck Eve's soul into Michelle's body or something which would allow Eve to influence the way that Michelle's apperance took form while still allowing Michelle to have her own soul/ego? Esentially, I'm asking if it;s possible that Ma could influence something to happen similar to how Eve influenced the apperance of Mikulia by acting as a leech on the body/soul of the dominant person back in Veno's era?

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    • If the Chirclatia could be considerwd as a possible child that resulted from the virgin birth, then the Li can be considered as another possibility since Ly Li is blonde too and their family hold a rather large influence in magic kingdom

      -Yuu

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    • Or that baby could possibly be being taken by Seth and is the 'boy' that was sealed in Lunaca Labora Matcha anon

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    • Considering it's an already preexisting family with parents and siblings I highly doubt it.

      But we know almost nothing about Elluka Chirclatia's family life outside the Clockworkers. We have zero info about any Chirclatia relatives, actually.

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    • Irina's soul is the theatre, right?

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    • I doubt Allen is the reborn child, especially since a newborn thrown into a river reminds me way too much of Moses with all the other religious connections--meaning someone took the child in, most likely. Especially since the bit about it ends in, "But..." and then actually moves on to Act II characters with the first one being Elluka Chirclatia. Elluka, meanwhile, has no past beyond a birthday, following the MA project led by Adam Moonlit, and becoming a priestess. No known family, and it's possible she was even raised by the church.

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    • I feel like it doesn't really do anything to speculate about who Maria Moonlit's firstborn child might be, if it's important to the plot I bet it will be covered more later. But I don't really see it being Elluka Chirclatia, or really Allen.

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    • Tobimisa wrote:
      I can't really comment meaningfully on the hair thing, but as for eve being able to make contracts I think it's worth pointing out that adam couldn't make contracts on his own before but gained the ability to do so by the time the greed novel rolled around. so there's a posibility that the same is true for eve

      Okay my memory is probably really horrible but didnt Adam also make a contract with Clarith? (with the help of Seth)

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    • Adam acted as a third party borrowing Seth's power when he made the contract with Clarith. This is similar to how a contract was forged between Banica and Lemy through Gretel. Both Adam and Gretel are listed as users on the Demon Contracts page.

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    • What if Michele was a reincarnation of the lives that had been replaced by Eve, like the true Margarita, Mikulia? And also a reincarnation of Miku Miroku. It's still unknow how she react to Venomania and Kayo Sudou.

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    • Can't be because not just anyone can reincarnate.

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    • http://pricechecktranslations.tumblr.com/post/168049518755/dsoe-mothy-chapter-10-the-boys-choice the new infomine!

      So we finally found the reason why Allen is locked inside the black box. If all Irregular come as a twin, then does it mean Maria Moonlit child can't be considered as Irregular since it was only one?

      Matcha anon

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    • Just a comment on the "Waiter" "Graveyard Waiter" thing (which has fallen by the wayside a little), since Waiter is Postman and thus it's unlikely she was the Graveyard waiter, I want to bring up the possibility that the Graveyard waiter was Arte, and that's why there's reports of her being seen in the forest with Ma. They are identical, after all.

      -Tea anon

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    • My only qualm with that is that in the JoC novel, Lich claims to not know Waiter personally - this would be impossible if the Waiter is Arte, since she and Lich would obviously know each other due to being within the Glass.

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    • I don't think ALL of them come in twins, that wouldn't make sense. I think Allen is just saying that Ma doesn't have one like him.

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    • Yeah--not all Irregulars are twins (Ma is an Irregular) but only twin Irregulars can do a Re_birthday. Or at least, that's Allen's theory.

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    • Mask06
      Mask06 removed this reply because:
      Question answered + Not the subject of the thread
      21:23, November 30, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • the incident with maria that we're talking about wasn't that vague mask06. it was specifically said to happen to maria, that it was one child born from a virgin birth, that the senate threw said child in the river, and that this all took place before project ma.

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    • We don't seem to be getting anywhere with the "who is Maria's illegitimate child" discussion, so I suggest we hold off on that conversation until we get more information.

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    • Maria is a witch because she uses magic. Meta also wasn't a virgin, IIRC, as she was Pale's mistress.

      Adam isn't blond. Irregulars are blond, as stated in canon. Adam wasn't taken away, his mother was used as a puppet. Meanwhile, Adam uses Moonlit as his last name, knows who his mother is, and was allowed a lot of power which wouldn't make sense for someone the Senate didn't even want to exist in the first place. If he was tossed into a river as an infant, he shouldn't have known who Maria Moonlit even was, or that it was his own last name. So let this theory, which is now pretty dang likely untrue, die.

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    • Double post and I'm sorry for that, but a good source on the virgin birth: (source)

      Which is rather explicit that the child is Maria Moonlit's and not Meta's, and that there was only one. Since Maria Moonlit is Alice Merry-Go-Round and all.

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    • Mask06
      Mask06 removed this reply because:
      Was always meant to be a temporary message
      21:40, November 30, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • I wasn't going to ask you to delete the posts, but I won't stop you from doing so, anon. This forum thread is meant to clarify and discuss things, as well as keep everyone on the same page in line with the changes we'll be implementing.

      Something I'd like to bring up: is everyone okay with assuming Michelle is the "Sleep Princess" appearing in SCaP? Because it appears that, at that point, Eve is already fused with the female twin birthed by MotC.

      Also, something to nibble on: Price is of the opinion that Michelle's form resembling Margarita in the novel is her "demonic" transformation.

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    • Does the wiki need high-quality scans of the new novel's illustrations still? Or are digital images going to be uploaded on pixiv eventually or something like that?

      I've scanned all the main illustrations in the novel with my printer and they're all looking good if anyone needs them.

      -G.

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    • I don't think we have any except the few on Pixiv and there's not really precedent for any chapters not the first few being uploaded there.

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    • Yeah I don't believe that we've had any other ways to get the illustrations. If you'd like to upload them that'd be appreciated

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    • I believe my copy of the novel will be arriving tomorow, so I'll probably have the illustrations scanned and posted on my Tumblr by tomorow night -Redladydeath

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    • Part 1 of Chapter 11  I sort of wish that we heard all of the Vocaloids singing the CL in the song. So MA is finally dead it seems and Levia is in the doll.

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    • I'm thinking that the Clockwork Lullaby is gonna need to have a variants section as well with what we're hearing. Although it'd be nice if we knew what all twelve versions did.

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    • Since someone just went through the hastle of uploading their own images of the illustrations (and since I'm not good at editing, myself--) I'm just going to post a link here for you all to see:

      https://graves-p.tumblr.com/post/168071860271/new-evillious-novel-illustration-scans

      If you feel like these scans will suffice you can use them.

      -G.

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    • I'm going to make a suggestion. Since Postman and Waiter are likely to be merged, I suggest doing it under the article name of Lilith Balledold. They're all three the same person, and Lilith is her real name. As well, it would encompass all three stages of her life.

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    • that'd make sense tbh, and it'd be a lot less sticky

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    • Going back a little to what GT said about assuming SCaP Sleep Princess is Michelle I'm still not really sure. Since Michelle is the sloth contracter and can be taken over by Eve's ego it seems I think it's a good guess but I don't think Eve already having fused with Court's child to be good evidence since based on the ending of SCaP not even Adam was fused with Court's child yet since her son was wandering the Grave Yard. 

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    • Also I apologize for the double post but I wanted to put forward changing Master of the Court's page name to Doll Director since that seems to be the name she uses and Master of the Court just being her title like Waiter and Master of the Graveyard just being titles for Lilith and Banica

      - Sloth

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    • I'm new to this blog. If Lilith truly is Waiter, then how come she can speak and looks as if she has free will?

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    • It was explained in the infomines. Arte and Lilith got along and so Arte gave her body to Lilith because her body was messed up. Arte then had Lich make her another body.

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    • I still think she's Michelle, Sloth. Given that Eve has no reason to appear as Margarita instead of herself and the text refers to her only as Sleep Princess when Mothy wasn't really shy about posting other spoilers in said novel (the thing with Kayo recognizing Allen, the thing whre it's commented that Ma is the reason Kayo, Gallerian and Nemesis are as they are), I think if she were meant to be Eve he'd have written that.

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    • Yeah, if I'm remembering correctly it's revealed that Gammon's group had tried putting people to sleep for their purposes. I think the chain of events was that Michelle used her contract with Eve to produce Gift and then went a little Eve-crazy while spreading it to everybody, hence her behavior in SCaP.

      It's also not unreasonable that the Eve twin was merged with Eve's soul way before Adam was, since the Theater would have had Eve immediately on hand after the world ended. (In fact that would also explain why the Eve twin wasn't around in SCaP where the Adam twin was)

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    • If everyone else agrees then I agree as well. I forgot that was part of Gammon's thing so it'd only ,make sense for it to be Michelle anyway. 

      - Sloth

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    • what I find interesting, is that in the earlier chapters (3 think?) Tony refers to her as the killer of Toragay

      so it seems he and likely most/all of the Tasan army are under the impression she's Margarita, and why shouldn't they think so? Michelle is wearing her dress, looks just like her with the same voice, aligns with Gammon's (working together, Gammon's likely shared this with them) theories on her (in fact that's where we got some erroneous info on her before her novel dropped), and basically no one would know Eve is Margarita and that technically the latter doesn't exist

      nothing... revelating but I like this consistency

      did that make any sense? I'm killing the English language singlehandedly i swear

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    • I like that because it's not the only time Tony has mistaken somebody for someone else in this novel. Clarith

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    • So Punishment being Len characters is because they are based on the "boy".

      Now, I wonder who is the "boy". Maybe he is the son of Maria. He is an irregular an

      Also, Hansel and Gretel are irregulars, but they don't have so much power, because they are copies of Levia and Behemo.

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    • I wonder what the final chapter will hold tbh.

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    • Curiously, all male irregulars seem to be (at least originally) Len charactes.

      However, not all female irregulars seem to be Rin characters (for example, Ney).

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    • 66.139.155.126 wrote:
      I wonder what the final chapter will hold tbh.

      The four endings

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    • I'm assuming it'll hold just one ending. :V

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    • Whatever it is, I will need a drink for the wild ride. Last chapter had me in shambles. Also will we need a list of Irregulars? Just so we definitely know who's one or not.

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    • List of Irregulars:

      - The "boy": He was created by Seth, but he haven't a twin.

      - Hansel: Not so powerful Irregular, because he is a copy of Behemo.

      - Gretel: Not so powerful Irregular, because she is a copy of Levia. (Ney is an interesting case, because she is a reincarnation, but she is daughter of a mud doll too)

      - Allen: Son of a mud doll

      - Rilliane: Daughter of a mud doll

      - MA

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    • Don't forget the Doll Director's children.

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    • I'm still reeling from the chapter, too. I had to read the infomine several times just to get it all and comprehend what was going on. I was not expecting things to go the way it did with the Second Period. It explains the 'spirit data' terminology, though. I really like how it seems (to me, at least) that the Second Period 'avatars' became real in their own right. Though I have to admit that I'm a little disappointed that Sickle as a robot wasn't a little more humanoid. I also have to admit I was hoping for more with the moon goddess. I am, however, very excited about the fact that Behemo is the real Master of the Heavenly Yard.

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    • 47.187.210.179 wrote:
      Don't forget the Doll Director's children.

      True I forgot them.

      List of Irregulars:

      - The "boy": He was created by Seth, but he haven't a twin.

      - Hansel: Not so powerful Irregular, because he is a copy of Behemo.

      - Gretel: Not so powerful Irregular, because she is a copy of Levia. (Ney is an interesting case, because she is a reincarnation, but she is daughter of a mud doll too)

      - Allen: Son of a mud doll

      - Rilliane: Daughter of a mud doll

      - MA

      - Adam Irregular: Doll Director's son

      - Eve Irregular: Doll Director's daughter

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    • Maria's child is an irregular too, but we still don't know what exactly happened to it. It wasn't in a twin set, so it likely wasn't too powerful.

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    • Admin announcements:

      • I know these last few chapters have been a wild ride, and everyone's high on emotion right now, but I'd like to remind everyone to keep the discussion productive. Feel free to share your reactions as long as they contribute something meaningful to the discussion as well.
      • It seems we're going to be having a page describing Irregulars: their appearance, what they do. Glad we finally know what they are.
      • I know everyone's confused right now, but it would be great if you could all post your questions here instead of directing them at Price; I don't want her to get swamped. Thank you all for your understanding.

      Personal reactions:

      • I'm just... wow. I thought the reveal in Muzzle that the Second Period was Earth was already wild.
      • I'm of the opinion that all the Climb One Crew are nerds.
      • Behemo is the Master of the Heavenly Yard! I'm so happy he's in a position of such great relevance to the plot. He's always seemed overshadowed by Levia up until this point.
      • I was hoping Luna was more significant somehow. Ever since the "moon goddess" was teased in the SCaP Bonus Episode, I was hoping that we'd have some earth-shattering reveal about her.
      • This scene reminds me of that part in The Matrix where Neo talks to The Architect. Just saying.
      • I really can't wait for the last chapter. I want to see how mothy wraps all of this up.
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    • I am confused about one point when it comes to Sickle's body...didn't he appear as a human soul in one of the short stories or was that just a bunch of wrong info that is still on the wiki?

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    • We learn a lot about Irregulars in this novel. Allen & Rilliane, Hansel & Gretel (as incomplete Irregulars), and Adam & Eve (the Director Doll's twins). Also, Ma being an Irregular missing her twin.

      (Sorry about all the "&"s, I'm just trying to put the pairs together)

      But really nothing to clarify Maria's virgin birth, it can't be Adam because Irregulars have golden hair. The only other "normal" person who stands out from the rest is Elluka Chirclatia, with her ability to cure HER. Do you think she could be the virgin birth, or was that just a lie told to put someone on the throne?

      I mean, I think its possible.

      The mystery still is if there was an original Master of the Graveyard. Or are we not going to know the answer in this novel?

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    • I think Sickle just has both a human and a bat form is all that it is.

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    • 2600:1700:B290:C810:88B0:6ADF:9597:F015 wrote: I am confused about one point when it comes to Sickle's body...didn't he appear as a human soul in one of the short stories or was that just a bunch of wrong info that is still on the wiki?

      Since Sickle has a bat form, it's not out of the question for him to have a humanoid form as well. Of course, none of these are his "true form" as TALOS.

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    • Wait, I read the infomine and I don't remember it say Behemo was the Master of the Heavenly Yard. Where does it say that?

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    • I have the theory that the "boy" created by Seth could be the Maria's son.

      Maybe Seth has some relation with the pregnancy of Maria.

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    • TomboyJessie13 wrote: Wait, I read the infomine and I don't remember it say Behemo was the Master of the Heavenly Yard. Where does it say that?

      It was said in this part:

      "He (Sickle) says that now “he” will talk to him–the true Master of the Heavenly Yard, who appears in a flash of light beside Luna. It’s Behemo. He’s still wearing his maid outfit. He explains that the Heavenly Yard he’s a master of is slightly different from the one that Allen knows. It’s not the one on the moon. It’s the First Period. Behemo summons some chairs so they can sit while he explains."

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    • I personally am not really understanding people's obsession with Maria's irregular child. imo Elluka's ability to cure HERs doesn't really stand out to me at all. She was from Levianta and I'd believe more she is an heirover her having the ability because she is Maria's irregular child. 

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    • That's a valid theory, anon. We still have the inheritor mechanic introduced in the Twin Cursed Blades short story. I personally think that Irina is an inheritor of Salem, since they both use blue flames.

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    • I can very much see that. The only issue I have with my own theory of Elluka just inheriting the ability is we don't know who it could come from. We know now the Purple Dream came from Rahab and blue flames most likely from Salem.

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    • It's because it's something that makes sense, especially since the closest we'd have is maybe that Elluka could hypnotize it into suppression or something akin to Grim The End's ability to "cut the malice" of the sinners in the novel, and even that latter one doesn't seem to correspond to a demon so much as an object.

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    • PsychoticSilverRose
      PsychoticSilverRose removed this reply because:
      Someone already posted the link I shared before I noticed
      06:21, December 2, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • I know this may not be a productive post, but I just have to say this... Really? Social network, 'Evillious group chat'? I can't be the only one laughing at that...

      At least we seem to know all the possible endings. Although I am confused by the fact that both Heavenly and Hellish are combined.

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    • What just happened? I mean the three endings and 10-Minute Love?

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    • The three endings all happened concurrently to the three different factions in the story. Ten Minute Love is part of the final ending it looks like.

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    • I'm honestly kind of left wanting more and majorly disappointed that, yet again, most of the sinners got the shaft in the end tbh. I've asked this on Tumblr, but mostly just... Where is everyone else? Where's Michaela, Clarith, Venomania, hell WHERE'S GAMMON? He's not mentioned in the Court ending at all despite being trapped in the theater when it began formatting the souls within. There's just... A lot I feel was left unaddressed in the ending, namely the other characters.

      I can only hope that Mothy DOES address them eventually, because it's very disappointing if your favorites AREN'T Irina/Banica/Allen/Riliane.

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    • So the similarity between Alice Merry-Go-Round and the Doll Director (both not knowing what to do and reaching for parents for advice) are there for a reason...

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    • Maybe ask him on twitter? Or maybe watch a livestream?

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    • I dunno, do you know Japanese, Jessie? Most of us don't and are left to the mercy of others.

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    • Admin things:

      • I've received word that a livestream is coming up. Hopefully mothy will bring new things to light there.

      Personal reactions:

      • I like how mothy tied everything back to the very beginning! Ten Minutes' Love is a personal favorite. I wonder if "Rin" here is Riliane.
      • SNS is a reference to the real-life website SNS. Levia, Behemo, Held and Sickle all appear to be the members of the group chat. Hopefully with this ending, it's opened up to other non-canon works such as South North Story.
      • Hmm, so in the end, all the endings were obtained. The Court ending appears to be a time loop: Irina is reset and becomes Maria Moonlit. Interesting stuff.
      • I agree in part with anon; I hope we get to see whatever happened to our beloved cast.
      • Looking over Unlock City's summary, it appears to take place in this new universe. Nice.
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    • Honestly, I probably just found the chat thing funnier than it really was. And I probably won't have any more to say at this point unless I have a question because the most I could come up with to contribute was getting the chance to post links to a few infomines.

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    • I'm a bit confused. Is the last chapter detailing the endings individually and leaving it up to us to decide which one happens? Or is it saying that all of them happened, which doesn't seem to make much sense given that the court ending is a time loop and there would be no way for the new world in the heavenly ending to be created. 

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    • assuming the court ending makes a perfect loop (which lets be honest mothy could ration that out any way he wants as he usually does) then it would eventually make it back to the story we've been following

      if I had to guess I'd say it probably lends to the the many worlds theory with different versions of the loop being different universes (like how there's another world where kayo did everything she did without any self awareness) but since all of these timelines technically did happen it would still count as it looping many times over

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    • I'm not sure how to handle 10 minute love being canon

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      I'm not sure how to handle 10 minute love being canon

      I'm actually wondering why it's in the Hellish ending.

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    • the stream is up

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    • I think it's both Heavenly/Hellish ending as a point of, "The world isn't perfect and it doesn't need to be perfect for it to be happy or okay." It's not either ending, fully. It's not a utopia, so it can't really be called Heavenly, and it's not all horrible, so it can't be called Hellish.

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    • (as the host dubs it) Revenge of the live stream

      • mothy is handosme
      • Fans tell wether they've read it or not almost half haven't so they can't spoil
      • mothy gets sleepy
      • Mothy says he isn't really "satified" and says that a original sin novel series isn't impossible, either way more will come
      • Claims the entire themem of the entire story is "love"(I think)
      • He admits he might have antagonized KAITO characters too much. THat might have played into why he made gallerian more sympathetic and Kyle a hero in the end.
      • He pities Conchita, she got played
      • fans call kyle "bakairu (dumbass Kyle)" I'm reminded of mothy nickname of him, "useless man"
      • Messages from fans
      • Fans thank them both for all
      • Fans assure that they'll always admire them both and wait for more from them
      • Q&A
      • Fans ask if he will write about gods A: Perhaps
      • Ichika is asked which acharacters are easy Riliane and Allen is easy to draw, Elluka is harder( I might have gotten these mixed up)
      • Asks if it's hard to design original characters that aren't vocaloids (like Lich and Bruno), mothy says they're al original characters technically, but he and Ichika are good at communicating so it's not that hard so design non-vocaloid characters
      • Host points out his psuedonym is in the title and asks if mothy's a narcisist, he replies "Maybe I am"
      • Perhaps he'll write a story about the events in Capriccio
      • Perhaps he'll write about the other "gods"
      • Feng Li is based on "Fenrir" of the norse myth (as a scandinavian I am ashamed i did not notice that) Fenrir was Loki's son who was born in the form of a beast (he was a wolf) along with his siblings Hel (half dead) and Jormungandr (snake) (I propose once again we change "Hale" to "Hel") Fenrir still had a (for lack of a better term) "human" mind and got married and sired two children

      Stream Part 2

      • More Q&A
      • Names of Nemesis friends are based or greek figures(but we knew that)
      • Eld was married and had a kid(the kid may have died it isn't clear)
      • Ron really cared about Banica's child
      • In the end of judgment Sickle revealed that the doll wasn't Michelle.(I think I might ahve heard wrong)
      • Rajih is pure
      • He says the reason he makes punny names is because he think even if EC can get depressing we (the readers) deserve to have a laugh
      • Rin chan is just named the way she is for the reason you expect, to quote mothy "People who love Kagamine Rin tend to call her Rin-Chan"
      • His favorite novel is Gift
      • Lich is the bird that attacked Michaela in Wiegenlied
      • Is Held the BLUEBIRD in Desert BLUEBIRD? "Occationally" is mothy's reply. I dont' know what to make of that.
      • Carlos and Vlad got eaten by Conchita but they aren't truly dead, they are in a way alive in Conchita and that's why they don't appear.
      • Favorite Characters, mothy: 1.Allen 2.Elluka (he doesn't specify wether he means Clockworker or Chirclatia)
      • He talks about "Akuyurin" the name came from him (the "Aku") uniMemo the ("yu") and Rin (the "rin" ofcourse)
      • He promises he will finish the clockwork lullaby series
      • He feels bad for all american fans who have to go through so much to find things out
      • He admits it's be nice to have an anime
      • He trash talks Caspar, saying he won't dedicate a song to a sleeze like him (he calls him "aitsu" which is really rude)
      • A "full album" will come, not sure what that means I think it's an album with 12 tracks.
      • PV for mothy is comming soon (before the end of the month) Ichika will do it and he feels so bad about it because he feels he's put alot of pressure on her, but she says she doesn't mind it

      I'm gonna watch the stream a couple of times more and correct mistakes and update things i missed

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    • I wonder if the more to come will mean that we get the H ending more clarified for other characters at any point. TBH that's the thing I care about most of all, because as someone not a major fan of the ones who did get mentioned in the endings I'm... Largely dissatisfied in the ending. >.>

      The bit about Feng is interesting.

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    • What he said about chimidoro switch????

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    • Regarding, Irina being Merry Go Round. She is chaste and she has twins.

      I suppose this twins are Adam and Eve. Maybe they aren't blonds, because reincarnation.

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    • Seiun wrote:
      What he said about chimidoro switch????

      Like I said, I will watch it again sometimes and I might be able to fill in on some things, it's hard for me to catch everything the first time

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    • Im kinda sure he said it was levia...

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    • 181.66.27.38 wrote:
      Regarding, Irina being Merry Go Round. She is chaste and she has twins.

      I suppose this twins are Adam and Eve. Maybe they aren't blonds, because reincarnation.

      i too thought of that but Eve is younger than Adam... Meta was born in the same year as Adam but she is Apparently a Ghoul child and has no parents..... (its possible that seth is able to create ghoul children witha pre-existing soul, which would explain Alice being reborn as Irina, or the female twin being meta, but that is just my pure speculation).

      i hope that mothy will elaborate on the unclear OSS plot points, since he said that theres more to come and that he wasnt really satisfied with oss

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    • Adam's too old to be the Irregular child. I doubt they'd let an ELEVEN-YEAR-OLD run a project, which is how old he'd have to be around Project MA by the timeline given. Most likely, I feel Adam was made at this point, probably before she had the kids she ran with.

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    • Announcement: Since Price is officially done infomining the novel, I'd like all willing and able users to sign up for jobs with the novel updates. I've detailed the list of pages that need to be edited with regards to the new information. Hopefully everyone is on board with this.

      For those who want to contribute but don't know how, feel free to contact either me or Octo. Thanks.


      Special acknowledgement to Price. Thank you for all your hard work and dedication. You are an invaluable resource to this fandom, and the EC Wiki would like to thank you for that.

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