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  • Servant of Evillious
    Servant of Evillious closed this thread because:
    Post count. A newer thread has been made: http://theevilliouschronicles.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:49108
    03:39, May 5, 2016

    NOTE: This thread is a repost of the original thread closed on August 21, 2015. Please see the first iteration to view past discussions.

    This thread is for the discussion of the above named album and its previous Act 1 and Act 2 iterations.

    Changes to the wiki related to these albums should be first brought forward, debated, and decided upon here. Feel free to also use this to discuss theories, give praises, or vent frustrations about the albums or their contents.

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    • I don't think the song has anything to do with the First Period and takes place in the Second Period because from what I've read on the wiki and stuff is that there wasn't a cause for the First Period ending it just did. The Second Period ended because of the Malice that seemed to infect both Levia and Behemo in each of their universes. 

      I bring up my idea again that Levia and Behemo both came over from the First Period but reincarnated or that Barisol came from the First Period but Levia and Behemo weren't born until the Second Period.

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    • tbh I don't see why Levia and Behemo couldn't have come from the first period in their respective universes and then connected while they were in the second period. Though my memory isn't fantastic so who knows

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    • The problem here (though I think that the reincarnation theory is plausible) is that Behemo is apparently stated to have been born on Gudonechia, which is part of the First Period. (Then again, it was also stated that Levia and Behemo were twins, which may also not be the case if Barisol's Child is about them.)

      The articles on Levia and Behemo themselves seem to imply that both gods were adults at the time that the First Period ended, too - they knew each other and Sickle, so the timelines seem fuzzy.

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    • Yes, it's not like mothy tried jamming in Seth telling Irina about his apparent specialty in [technobabble] and [magical technobabble] for The Song I Heard Somewhere. We can't look at a song and consider it the complete picture of everything that happened for these characters. If these characters are Levia and Behemo, there is some leeway no different from mothy's past expansions on other characters in unexpected ways.

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    • It isn't stated Gudonechia is in the First Period, just that it's where Behemo was born. There's also an indication that their human forms are from the Second Period, while they could have been something else in the First Period and reincarnated.

      I'm also going to state that sometimes we word things on the wiki a certain way even if the text itself does not, because plot twists were not taken into account. There's a lot of leeway for this song.

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    • I was going to say something about QotG seemingly confirming that Levia and Behemo are Rin and Len characters, but then I remembered there's a precedent for them mimicking other people's voices (Elluka)... I don't think they would have had a reason to do so while speaking to Maria, and the fact that Allen apparently looks exactly like a young Behemo sort of heavily implies that they're Rin and Len characters, but you never know. It wouldn't be the first time something seemingly obvious wasn't the case.

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    • Octo you've said twice now that Gudonechia may not be in the First Period and if that is true shouldn't the wiki be changed to reflect that because it very clearly states on the Periods page that Gudonechia is the First Period.

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    • Yeah we might want to change that.

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    • In addition, on Levia and Behemo's pages, Gudonechia links directly to the First Period.

      Without it being stated as to which period Gudonechia was a part of, I would have assumed it was the First just because Levia and Behemo were apparently born on it. But now that I think about it, I don't remember seeing it written anywhere that Levia and Behemo were on the ark that escaped into the Second Period. Is there anything to solidly indicate they weren't born in the Second Period?

      We haven't seen much of Levia and Behemo themselves, so I don't think they've mentioned anything about the First Period. If they're descended from First Period beings and Gudonechia is part of the Second Period, if Barisol's Child is about them everything about the song and outside info (Behemo being described as a 'First Period being' specifically) would line up.

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    • Olivemeister wrote:
      I was going to say something about QotG seemingly confirming that Levia and Behemo are Rin and Len characters, but then I remembered there's a precedent for them mimicking other people's voices (Elluka)... I don't think they would have had a reason to do so while speaking to Maria, and the fact that Allen apparently looks exactly like a young Behemo sort of heavily implies that they're Rin and Len characters, but you never know. It wouldn't be the first time something seemingly obvious wasn't the case.

      I thought it was already confirmed that they are indeed represented by the Kagamines?

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    • I think at this point they pretty much are 100% represented by the Kagamines but apparently mothy said they aren't and are based on the Kagamines but technically aren't Kagamines so 

      ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    • PrincessAcedia wrote:
      Octo you've said twice now that Gudonechia may not be in the First Period and if that is true shouldn't the wiki be changed to reflect that because it very clearly states on the Periods page that Gudonechia is the First Period.

      It probably should, because the wiki is not reflecting the amount of info available. (Or unavailable.) The assumption was made that the planet was in the First Period because Behemo was born there, but Barisol's song has to take place in the Second Period because the crew was 72 people, while the ark from the First Period has hundreds of gods on it.

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    • I was definitely under the impression that "Levia and Behemo are Rin and Len characters" was one of those "we're just waiting on confirmation" things.

      At the same time, Held doesn't seem to have a Vocaloid representative despite having a described humanoid form, and neither does Sickle (as far as we know, I guess), so it wouldn't have been strange to me if Levia and Behemo followed this apparent pattern. Watch that be completely wrong and Held turns out to be Mikuo, though. There's a precedent for derivatives.

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    • I feel like Held and Sickle will have their own unique appearances and considering I kind of doubt they will ever sing we may never get Vocaloid Reps for them. 

      Levia and Behemo at this point like they sing using Rin and Len but mothy still says they just look like Rin and Len and that's it so it's really weird

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    • PrincessAcedia wrote:
      I think at this point they pretty much are 100% represented by the Kagamines but apparently mothy said they aren't and are based on the Kagamines but technically aren't Kagamines so ===¯\_(ツ)_/¯===

      If we're going under the assumption they are portrayed by Kagamines in the song(s), they undoubtedly should be reflected as such in the infoboxes again. mothy's statement was reflecting the lack of Vocaloids on the actual cover of the album, which may refer to the designs themselves or the characters overall. It's hard to say how he meant that one phrase alone, much like Arth and other characters where the lines aren't drawn very distinctly (see Rin Chan or Mayrana). I think we can all consider singers as hard proof though.

      As for the world situation:

      Born and raised on the now nonexistent planet of Gudonechia, the only place left that could be said to be a home for Behemo was [the Heavenly Yard].

      The Heavenly Yard is the Second Period. Gudonechia is apparently so gone that Behemo can't even call it home or go to it. There's more leeway with the other line where you can interpret it as either the narrator saying Behemo+co. are First Period beings or comparing their situation as being like the First Period beings'.

      We still don't know much about god culture or events in the First or Second Period so that point could remain vague for a while on explaining the history. I said it before, but the song may just not be mentioning the changing worlds as it wasn't relevant enough to the songs' plot. It could also be misinterpretation of the existing info.

      It definitely might be better to be more vague for now.

      Olivemeister wrote:
      Watch that be completely wrong and Held turns out to be Mikuo, though. There's a precedent for derivatives.

      I'd want to see that but I don't know if I could take the young-looking "old man" seriously.

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    • What, Servy, aren't you Held then?

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    • Also, I vote for considering L&B Kagamine's.

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    • Olivemeister wrote:
      I was definitely under the impression that "Levia and Behemo are Rin and Len characters" was one of those "we're just waiting on confirmation" things.

      At the same time, Held doesn't seem to have a Vocaloid representative despite having a described humanoid form, and neither does Sickle (as far as we know, I guess), so it wouldn't have been strange to me if Levia and Behemo followed this apparent pattern. Watch that be completely wrong and Held turns out to be Mikuo, though. There's a precedent for derivatives.

      I've always imagined Held as Mikuo, since he's described as green-haired and I don't know any other male Vocaloid with green hair.

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    • I am gonna say that for a while I've begun considering the "Represented by X Vocaloid" distinction increasingly arbitrary in this series for the borderline reasons Servy laid out, and only existing as a shorthand for who looks like/sounds like who.

      With that in mind, them being represented by the Kagamines in a song should be enough. Although don't forget Levia could, at least, imitate Luka.

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    • QueenCeline wrote:

      Olivemeister wrote:
      I was definitely under the impression that "Levia and Behemo are Rin and Len characters" was one of those "we're just waiting on confirmation" things.

      At the same time, Held doesn't seem to have a Vocaloid representative despite having a described humanoid form, and neither does Sickle (as far as we know, I guess), so it wouldn't have been strange to me if Levia and Behemo followed this apparent pattern. Watch that be completely wrong and Held turns out to be Mikuo, though. There's a precedent for derivatives.

      I've always imagined Held as Mikuo, since he's described as green-haired and I don't know any other male Vocaloid with green hair.

      What, you don't remember Ryuto? XP

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    • Never heard of him

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    • When it comes to the Gudonechia I'm just gonna theorize right now at least that Gudonechia was Behemo's world and Levia's world became the Heavenly Yard that we know. It makes sense to me at least. 

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    • ^ Good idea.

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    • Malice Twiright wrote:
      http://vocaloid.wikia.com/wiki/Ryuto

      This guy.

      Aw, he's so cute! ^^ too cute to imagine as Held.

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    • Um.... question?


      Is the person who brought Irina's Cat body Seth or Adam? The reason I thought it was Adam was because of the burn marks (you know, from Eve being burned and Hansel "killing him") or is it Seth, since that's what the other peeps in the thread mentioned?


      I'm honestly confused.

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    • P.S. I meant put Irina in her Cat body.

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    • Seth. OSS Act 2 and the Pierrot novel explicitly name him as being the one who approaches the mortally wounded Irina and putting her into her cat body during the full moon following the catastrophe. Seth himself was apparently mortally injured too (severely burned) and saved her for whatever reason before going off and dying somewhere.

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    • @Servant of Evillious

      Thank you.

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    • So, do we declare Levia and Behemo Rin and Len or not?

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    • Mangoshakekouhai wrote:
      P.S. I meant put Irina in her Cat body.


      It's confirmed that Seth brought the red cat to Irina. There's no way the burned scientist is Adam because Levianta Catastrophe precedes Adam being dead.

      Edit: I'm late. Didn't see Servy's reply.

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    • So what are the thoughts on the child dumped in the river?

      I'm personally not comfortable saying it's Adam until something explicitly states as much. Thre's some big plot holes with that at the moment (namely his name and the fact that if the Senate tried to bury his existence I can't see them putting a kid named Adam Moonlit in charge of Project MA which was publicized, IIRC--it would afford him an opportunity to screw them over if he had proof of his origins, not to mention how would Adam even know his history).

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    • I agree that until more information arrives we should leave that child a mysterious person rather than Adam. Who knows if the child was drowned dead in the water while Adam is another thing entirely.

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    • Was there info that said that the Senate knew about Maria's real name? I was guessing that Adam was the only other person who knew about her mother's real identity so he took up the surname and got allowed to work with the government and secretly have revenge.

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    • How about we wait for when get the full booklet that we make descions like that, 'kay?

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    • Triuberit wrote:
      Was there info that said that the Senate knew about Maria's real name? I was guessing that Adam was the only other person who knew about her mother's real identity so he took up the surname and got allowed to work with the government and secretly have revenge.

      The problem with that is the child was abandoned at infancy. How would he know her name was Maria Moonlit in the case of being dumped in a river as a newborn?

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    • Malice Twiright wrote:
      How about we wait for when get the full booklet that we make descions like that, 'kay?

      I sure do hope the booklet's got a lot of info. Mothy's got a lot of explaining to do despite calling this album the "Complete Edition" (i.e. Who's Barisol?, Are Maria and Adam humans?, etc.)

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    • There are many reasons that could work.

      Seriously, this is Nyoze all over again.

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    • Malice Twiright wrote:
      There are many reasons that could work.

      Seriously, this is Nyoze all over again.

      Nyoze was a bit different as the explanation was simple: Gallerian didn't have him executed after the trial, he had him imprisoned. All we knew until SCaP was that Nyoze was dead and Gammon blamed Gallerian.

      I can't think of many reasons this could work right now without it being that the Senate is made of complete morons while Adam magically knew his heritage somehow despite being abandoned as a newborn.

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    • I also vote on L&B being stated as "represented by the Kagamines" because of the songs, their appearance is a little inspired by them (Hair/eye color) and that the kagamines H&G are their imperfect copies.

      I think that the fact that Levia can change her voice doesnt change anything. It just shows off her "Cause I'm a God" power.

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    • 67.66.95.102 wrote:

      I can't think of many reasons this could work right now without it being that the Senate is made of complete morons while Adam magically knew his heritage somehow despite being abandoned as a newborn.

      I'm betting on this to be what mothy has in his head right now but is figuring/figured out how to somehow dramaticize it by using supernatural powers or new characters.

      Heck, I thought Riliane being picked as queen at 14 would be impossible until Abyss IR came along.

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    • Triuberit wrote:
      I sure do hope the booklet's got a lot of info. Mothy's got a lot of explaining to do despite calling this album the "Complete Edition" (i.e. Who's Barisol?, Are Maria and Adam humans?, etc.)

      Also, how do Gods kill Gods?, How does Malice act?, How can gods become HER? Parallel universes?! And the most important of all:

      Is Barisol a male or a female?!

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    • Triuberit wrote:
      I'm betting on this to be what mothy has in his head right now but is figuring/figured out how to somehow dramaticize it by using supernatural powers or new characters.

      Heck, I thought Riliane being picked as queen at 14 would be impossible until Abyss IR came along.

      Historically, there have been young queens tho. Mary, Queen of Scots, ruled at sixteen. There's a Chinese emperor who began ruling at twelve. There's precedent in history.

      I'm more betting that Adam's got an older sibling elsewhere that leads to the Crim line. It makes more sense with the current information.

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    • Maybe Barizol is a last name

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    • Riliane was a princess. She refused to be appointed queen until she became an adult.

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    • I know we stopped talking about this a while ago but-

      Isn't Held's true identity obvious?

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    • Danytaly wrote:
      Triuberit wrote:
      I sure do hope the booklet's got a lot of info. Mothy's got a lot of explaining to do despite calling this album the "Complete Edition" (i.e. Who's Barisol?, Are Maria and Adam humans?, etc.)
      Also, how do Gods kill Gods?, How does Malice act?, How can gods become HER? Parallel universes?! And the most important of all:

      Is Barisol a male or a female?!

      To answer most of your questions:

      ✧・゚: *✧・゚:*MAGIC✧・゚: *✧・゚:*
      And I get the feeling "Barisol" was picked because it's gender neutral. Levia's Barisol and Behemo's Barisol could be gender-swapped without much fuss that way. If we're dealing with parallel universes that is (considering a scientist in Barisol's Child was described as a researcher of such, it's likely).

      Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      Maybe Barizol is a last name

      That's also possible.

      Danytaly wrote:

      I also vote on L&B being stated as "represented by the Kagamines" because of the songs, their appearance is a little inspired by them (Hair/eye color) and that the kagamines H&G are their imperfect copies.

      I think that the fact that Levia can change her voice doesnt change anything. It just shows off her "Cause I'm a God" power.

      I also vote for Levia and Behemo being represented by Kagamines, that explanation pretty much covered all my reasons as well.

      108.20.252.11 wrote:
      I know we stopped talking about this a while ago but-

      Isn't Held's true identity obvious?

      Confirmed.

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    • Triuberit wrote:

      I sure do hope the booklet's got a lot of info. Mothy's got a lot of explaining to do despite calling this album the "Complete Edition" (i.e. Who's Barisol?, Are Maria and Adam humans?, etc.)

      Even assuming this album is truly the "complete edition" and there will be no more songs under the OSS label, when have songs or booklets ever given much of a complete picture? It's always the light novels released afterward, and this case would be no different.

      67.66.95.102 wrote:
      The problem with that is the child was abandoned at infancy. How would he know her name was Maria Moonlit in the case of being dumped in a river as a newborn?

      A tag or note swaddled in the babes' clothes? A close friend who picked him up? An information broker with inside knowledge? Much like Nemesis, there are a lot of holes in the early life to explain the hows, whens, wheres [x] character learned what about their parent or whether that person even is their parent.

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    • I still don't buy it, personally. He ws thrown in a river, which would destroyed any note, and a close friend would have to be fast to pick him up depending on how fast the river is. And information broker would need there to be information there to begin with, and most adults won't accept, "lol You're the queen's kid" without proof that may or may not exist. And that still doesn't explain the Senate allowing him on Project MA in that case.

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    • I agree, there isn't any sufficient explanation to all the problem surrounding the scenario until mothy elaborates more about it. If the boy isn't the same Adam, then there's still an oddity of a scientist who just so happens to also be "Adam Moonlit" have a grudge against the senate (+Seth) for taking his mother away from him. If he is, how and when he came by with all this knowledge isn't readily apparent.

      mothy's tweets confirm Adam gets a profile in the booklet, but if there isn't anything coorelating to the rest of it, it may be a while before we get any further elaboration on it.

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    • For now we should keep Adam and the infant separate, I feel, until we get his profile.

      TBH I figured Adam's feelings were that he wasn't acknowledged as a prince and lived outside and away from his mother most of the time, and then was cut off. Like Maria having a private life separate from her life as a prophet, and then with the reaction received from the big Sin prophecy she was forbidden from leaving and allowed no or few visitors. At least that's how I figured it. But we'll have to wait and see.

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    • 67.66.95.102 wrote:
      For now we should keep Adam and the infant separate, I feel, until we get his profile.

      TBH I figured Adam's feelings were that he wasn't acknowledged as a prince and lived outside and away from his mother most of the time, and then was cut off. Like Maria having a private life separate from her life as a prophet, and then with the reaction received from the big Sin prophecy she was forbidden from leaving and allowed no or few visitors. At least that's how I figured it. But we'll have to wait and see.

      Before the Complete Collection came out, I had two theories about Adam and Maria being seperated. The first was that when Maria became queen, the Senate forced her to leave Adam behind so she could focus on her duties and Adam never saw her again. The second is that when Maria made the prophecy, the Senate exiled her or had her impriosned to make room for Mem Aleph as queen, and so Adam felt he was robbed of both his mother and his source of power. Now, with the whole seperate identities going on, I'm leaning more towards the first theory; maybe the senate wanted her to make a complete break from her former life and that including her child.

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    • At this juncture, even if we don't get a full explanation, the booklet does have those lines at the end: "[The baby's] existence was buried in the darkness. But......" They may be a segway to the next page, which could be some profiles or song lyrics or such that would indicate Adam. The profiles for H&G and Seth do provide at least a little bit of new info so we should hopefully get something that would support or deny the notion of him being the baby there.

      There's also one of the lines of the crossfade in coorelation to Adam ("the scientist who lived/living scientist") which could refer to him escaping Levianta before the catastrophe or maybe regarding the baby believed to be lost.

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    • There's also the fact that Maria's baby is said to have been born without a father, just like H&G according to Salmhofer, and Queen of The Glass mentions Levia and Behemo telling her to create vessels "The same way you created Adam". That should count for something, unless Adam was named after the drowned baby.

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    • 157.253.216.189 wrote:
      There's also the fact that Maria's baby is said to have been born without a father, just like H&G according to Salmhofer, and Queen of The Glass mentions Levia and Behemo telling her to create vessels "The same way you created Adam". That should count for something, unless Adam was named after the drowned baby.

      Not necessarily. It just said she had no husband, not that the baby had no father, and she attempted to claim that it was a virgin conception. Whether this is true or not has yet to be seen.

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    • Well with Adam's profile, the very first line states he's the son of Queen Merry-Go-Round; that settles that. He resents the senate who manipulated his mother as a doll (can also mean "puppet") and secretly wanted revenge against them.

      Eve's profile is a bit more interesting, claiming the Zvezda family inherits the blood of Held though who/where that claim comes from isn't clear. Her amazing magical ability to affect the mind and body and conjure forth powerful lightning is apparently sealed away usually in accordance to Nemu village's laws.

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    • Well I think we know how she killed Meta now.

      So does this mean he probably has a sibling?

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote:
      Well with Adam's profile, the very first line states he's the son of Queen Merry-Go-Round; that settles that. He resents the senate who manipulated his mother as a doll (can also mean "puppet") and secretly wanted revenge against them.

      Eve's profile is a bit more interesting, claiming the Zvezda family inherits the blood of Held though who/where that claim comes from isn't clear. Her amazing magical ability to affect the mind and body and conjure forth powerful lightning is apparently sealed away usually in accordance to Nemu village's laws.

      So, Eve is a descendant of Held and her hypnosis power is a magical ability? I'd always wondered if she had it in life or she developed it after becoming a spirit.

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    • That might also explain why she confused Meta for a bear and Hänsel and Gretel for apples.

      I also vote for the gods being Kagamines, but how are we listing their relationship as?

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    • Alexiel Lucifen wrote:

      I also vote for the gods being Kagamines, but how are we listing their relationship as?

      Complicated.

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    • I said this before, but "twins" from across parallel worlds isn't a new concept. Besides the different sexes, the characters typically have the same genes and would be, for all intents and purposes, fraternal twins, they just weren't actually born in the same realities. A fond example in recent memory is the Lutece twins who also consider each other as twin brother and sister despite the scientists coming from separate worlds.

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    • Well bioshock is popular in japan and mothy is a gamer, wouldn't surprise me if they are refrensing tghem

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    • Sorry for changing the topic, but do we all agree that it looks like the girl in "Full moon laboratory" is Irina, thus placing that song (finally) in the timeline of evillious, or someone has another idea?

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    • 83.40.250.6 wrote:
      Sorry for changing the topic, but do we all agree that it looks like the girl in "Full moon laboratory" is Irina, thus placing that song (finally) in the timeline of evillious, or someone has another idea?

      It could be a callback, honestly. Personally, I think it's meant to say "It's Irina singing FML" but I also feel like there's room for doubt.

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    • Olivemeister wrote:

      It could be a callback, honestly. Personally, I think it's meant to say "It's Irina singing FML" but I also feel like there's room for doubt.

      My position is similar. We already have a "Re_birthday" callback thrown in as well. I'm personally not willing to assume the character is Irina without some more information connecting the two.

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    • Another bit of doubt is that the lyrics are slightly altered from in FML, but that could be easily chalked up to "mothy changed his mind about some details of the story".

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    • I also had a thought about Levia and Behemo speaking to Maria in QotG - could "the way you created Adam" just be a way of saying "giving birth"? Presumably she gave birth to him, though with Evillious there's always room for doubt as to how a baby came about. I don't think it's that simple, frankly.

      It seems like Levia and Behemo are implying that Adam was at the very least an artificial insemination, if not a ghoul child outright. Maria's definitely in a situation where Seth could have been experimenting with her... possibly without her knowledge, if her claim in the booklet of immaculate conception isn't an outright lie.

      Do we know that Seth's ghoul children didn't require a womb to incubate in?

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    • I figured it was a way of just saying "give birth to" more than anything else. As I said, it at most may imply artificial insemination.

      My bick stickler on the ghoul children thing is that they're genetic clines--it's commented that Kiril and Pale both have the exact same eyesight problems as Seth on top of looking like him. While they may require a womb, we have yet to see anyone who Maria's children could be clones of.

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    • A tree had 62 children on his own, i don't think we should assume how adam was born quite yet.

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    • 67.66.95.102 wrote:
      My bick stickler on the ghoul children thing is that they're genetic clines--it's commented that Kiril and Pale both have the exact same eyesight problems as Seth on top of looking like him. While they may require a womb, we have yet to see anyone who Maria's children could be clones of.

      Meta and Irina buck this trend, though - Seth created them as well, and while Meta resembles Seth a lot, Irina definitely doesn't. Isn't he explicitly said to have started altering their genetic makeup after Pale and Kiril, since three identical people is suspicious as hell?

      It's definitely possible that Adam is one of Seth's ghoul children. His dedication towards his mother could be a call forward to Hansel and Gretel's fanatic devotion to their own mother (figures), even. 

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    • No, he started using other bases, IIRC, so it wouldn't be suspicious.

      I don't think Adam is a ghoul child. That would make 90% of the main characters from OSS ghoul children, and I'm not sure even Mothy would go that far.

      As well, dedication to a mother figure hardly means someone is a ghoul child unless you're going to say that Kyle is one, now, too. :V Even if he didn't like Prim, he still did whatever she asked.

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    • Also, I don't know if Behemo would be so angry about ghoul children if they were just clones - they'd still be human beings, since Seth was incarnated as a human when he was making them. Though I guess the sticking point for Behemo is that it's Seth making them; I wonder if he still would have been as mad if it had been solely a product of human science.

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    • 67.66.95.102 wrote:

      As well, dedication to a mother figure hardly means someone is a ghoul child unless you're going to say that Kyle is one, now, too. :V Even if he didn't like Prim, he still did whatever she asked.

      Well, that's not entirely what I was trying to say - it wasn't "fanatical devotion to a mother = ghoul child", it was "if Adam is a ghoul child, it's an interesting parallel to some of the other ghoul children we know".

      Obviously, being dedicated to a mother figure isn't an inherent ghoul child trait, or Pale, Kiril, Meta, and Irina would probably be very different.

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    • Clearly, "everyone is a ghoul child" is the new "everyone is Eve".

      Though honestly, I feel like this is a case of "until now we had no reason to question Adam's humanity/origins but now there's a tiny bit of doubt" similar to "we had no reason to question the idea of Levia and Behemo being born in the First Period".

      I do agree that it seems like it'd be too much if so many members of the OSS cast were ghoul children. I'd be sort of annoyed if Adam turned out to be a ghoul child, honestly.

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    • Ghoul children is just a name for Seth's artificial humans he created to make more HERs. His third ghoul child was created as a completely different person and gender entirely, hence Meta. Whether her genetic makeup comes from another MEIKO character or Seth just synthesized her isn't clear.

      Behemo's problem with them is (to him) they are inferior copies of his own works (ie, the human body). Whether there's actually any real distinction between a ghoul child and a regular human or HER isn't clarified.

      I'm more curious whether or not Levia and Behemo are technically HERs or not with the talk about malice; even if they're described as actually being "evil gods" who want to destroy the world in the booklet, it's not clarified whether or not the twins cleansed themselves of the condition before boarding the ark.

      Edit: And please don't double, triple post if possible. I don't want to have to close this thread by the end of today.

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    • Yeah, that's another thing. All ghoul children so far have had HERS, but Adam's apparently HER-free so far. So I doubt he's a ghoul child, personally. Artificial insemination, I don't doubt. But ghoul child? Not really, personally.

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      A tree had 62 children on his own, i don't think we should assume how adam was born quite yet.

      I thought those were his kin, not his children

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    • I can't imagine them being allowed on the ark if they were infected with it still, but Seth slipped past so who knows. I thought HER was something that's sort of genetic; have we seen a case where someone who wasn't born with the condition manifested it later? We know that the Venom sword is able to infect someone with something similar to HER, but as far as I recall it's not exactly the same thing.

      I think it's more likely that Levia and Behemo somehow were able to shed the contagion, though it begs the question of how they did so. Given Levia's words about how her killing Behemo would be the way Malice would enter the new world, she clearly doesn't think she's capable of spreading Malice despite being affected by it.

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    • QueenCeline wrote:
      Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      A tree had 62 children on his own, i don't think we should assume how adam was born quite yet.
      I thought those were his kin, not his children


      He calls them his children and they call him father

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    • Levia didn't say that killing Behemo would release malice into the new world. She said "That would be the entrance to malice". Towards it.

      She was saying that she wouldn't be infected until she gave invto the impulse to commit murder. The scientist had tricked her into thinking killing Behemo would get rid of the Malice in her, when it was really the opposite. That is the implication the line is giving off.

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      He calls them his children and they call him father

      That doesn't make them actually his children. I call a lot of people my siblings, but they're not actually my siblings, and I'm adopted on top of that. He raised them in the forest after they were reborn there.

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    • 23.122.217.39 wrote:
      Levia didn't say that killing Behemo would release malice into the new world. She said "That would be the entrance to malice". Towards it.

      She was saying that she wouldn't be infected until she gave invto the impulse to commit murder. The scientist had tricked her into thinking killing Behemo would get rid of the Malice in her, when it was really the opposite. That is the implication the line is giving off.

      Her next lines wording it as "the fallen me" being replaced by the scientist makes it clear enough that she realizes her actions would have made her, personally, unworthy to go on the Ark, but that she would be still if she didn't do it.

      As for her having the impulses in the first place, maybe it was a typical psychology student's symptoms of feeling what they're studying? She began her research at a young impressionable age and we don't know how Malice works with gods anyway.

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    • Well, the song says she was already being "violated" (according to the translation I saw, not sure what other possible translations the word had) by Malice, so it seems like Levia was already sort of already... infected by Malice. 

      She certainly believes it's something she has to be cleansed of, or else she wouldn't have gone to Seth in the first place to get rid of it. Not that I think her having a psychosomatic manifestation of traits associated with Malice is impossible, but it seems more likely that she's actively infected.

      On the other hand, I wonder if Behemo's world actually had Malice in the first place? It seems to be a pretty intuitive logical leap to say that Behemo's apparent murders are a result of him being infected. But on his side of the song, there's no mention of Malice. Then again, unlike Levia who was a scientist, he had no reason to be aware of Malice enough to connect his behavior with it (assuming, as I interpreted the lyrics, that he killed his girlfriend).

      Is there more to the booklet besides the information we already have translated?

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    • SO he killed her and stole her dress,

      Kayo you need to come up with something more original

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    • Consider all of the other HER/Malice infectees in the series. All of them were triggered by murders. Irina went full blown after killing Elluka, Lemy started falling after he killed Ton Corpa. Keel, on the flip side, allegedy has HER but never exhibits symptoms and never commits a murder. It's possible that Malice only really takes hold in someone after giving in to the desire to kill. Levia did not--thus she overcame it. Perhaps, if we think of it like a real disease, Malice is the HIV stage, whereas HER is AIDS. One is the stage of infection where the immune system attempts to fight it off, and the other is where the person has been irrevocably infected. Levia may have been initially infected, but she may have realized how to avoid retaining the disease by not comitting murder.

      There's also no confirmation that the line about the doll(s) legitimately featured Behemo murdering anyone, and I would rather we not discuss the matter as though it did. There could be many reasons why the dolls were scattered about and warm the way they were. Even if the "dolls" were people, we don't know necessarily it was Behemo that did it.

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    • That's precisely why I said "as I interpreted" - without any other confirmation of it, it's nothing more than a theory and I don't want to give the impression that it's anything besides what I felt like the lyrics were getting at. Sorry if that was unclear!

      The idea of Malice and HER being sort of two stages of the same thing is interesting and could definitely be the case. It seems like you can't have HER without Malice, but the reverse is not necessarily true in the same way that a banana is a fruit but not all fruits are bananas.

      However, Kiril was said to have manifested HER symptoms, and we don't have a solid link that he'd ever killed as far as I know.

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    • 0O0/ Actually, Kiril was stated to resist his fate as an HER, and then is said to be cured by Elluka. That could mean that he was refusing to give in to his murderous impulses. Although that would also indicate that Levia would have needed to be cured, but again it may be different for gods.

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    • There is a subtitled version of Queen of the Glass on Youtube here. It is from the same translator and channel as Barisol's Child. Should the page's Youtube Link be changed?

      Edit: It does,however, appear that the editor is using Eve's picture as if she were the singer and not Maria.

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    • I know other people are working on subtitled versions; I'd prefer it if we use a video that makes the least assumptions.

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    • It may also just be they're using Eve's picture for lack of any picture of Maria and not wanting to use the Madam Merry-Go-Round pic since that's Court.

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    • Personally, I'd say it's ideal if we can find one that just uses the Album Cover as the picture.


      On the other hand, if there really aren't any other subbed vids we can find, that will do. 

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    • I was subbing it earlier but my internet started hating me. I finally finished Queen of the Glass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ecJk2kgEZI (I only used the album cover).

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    • Great, now all we need is a subbed version of Song I Heard Somewhere

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    • Has anyone translated the profiles of Meta, Elluka and Irina; and the text on the Act2 cover?

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    • Danytaly wrote: Has anyone translated the profiles of Meta, Elluka and Irina; and the text on the Act2 cover?

      I have. You can read the translation on my blog post.

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    • "He attempts to make the children born between himself and Eve become the ‘god twins’."

      Wait, what? Am I reading this wrong? Because from this translation it seems that Adam was the one that god Eve pregnant, without the God's seeds. 

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    • MAybe he said something like "Eve we have to have sex and then you will get pregnant with god children" and she just rolled with it.

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      1. venombrainwashingdrug
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    • It may not be literal, because he was already setting himself up as her future husband. Thus he viewed the children as his.

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    • He's the lead of the project and she's his test subject. There's a relationship going between them to make babies happen, even if it's not the conventional (natural) means of conceiving those children.

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    • What I meant was that I don't think they had sex, and instead were within the guidelines and used the god seed. xD; Not his sperm. They still count as his because of their relationship.

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    • 67.66.95.102 wrote:
      What I meant was that I don't think they had sex, and instead were within the guidelines and used the god seed. xD; Not his sperm. They still count as his because of their relationship.

      My post wasn't in response to you, specifically, just my commentary on the topic. XD Apologies, should've quoted. I'm actually in agreement with you.

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    • Couldn't tell who you were talking to. o> But yeah, my thoughts pretty much, except better worded. We have a previous album book, I believe, that even outright states he views the twins Eve was carrying as his own children, even if they weren't his genetically, right?

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    • Adam refers to the children in Moonlit Bear as "our" so it's pretty clear he views Cain and Abel as if they were his own, or at least keeps up that facade for Eve's sake.

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    • If anyone's interested, I'm working on a subbed version of Song I Heard Somewhere. Once it's finished, I'll upload and post the link.

      Edit:

      https://youtu.be/1_RrX2nlVhc

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    • Pardon, but what translation did you use? It has several mistakes in it.

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    • 23.122.217.39 wrote:
      Pardon, but what translation did you use? It has several mistakes in it.

      One that I found on DeviantArt. What mistakes?

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    • In general, misunderstanding verb tense, particles, certain grammatical forms, omitted subjects, cutting out at least one line altogether, misusing attributive form, cutting out phrases, etc.

      I don't want to list them all out on here because there really are quite a few, but here are some specific examples:

      -The line "From here on you will be reborn" is cut entirely from the translation (the line right before "Today is your Re_birthday").

      -"He said, his arms covered up in burns, 'what is the thing I was?'"--> this line is supposed to read more like, "With his arms covered in burns, he touched 'the thing that used to be me'"

      -"And there was this song"--> this is supposed to read more like "Yes, this was formerly such a song".

      -"Also the purpose changes with a new body" --> this is supposed to read more like "If my body changes then my purpose changes as well"

      -"I was created by that person" -->this line is continued on in the next one, it is supposed to read "Just like that person created me"

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    • It took me four hours to create that video and it's apparently wrong? FML

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    • Anon, are the correct lyrics written down somewhere?

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    • I'm not anon but this translation seems to be rather accurate X

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    • Thanks, Tobimasa. Here's the fixed version: https://youtu.be/s3z7gfeJw0g

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    • No problem man ^^ And you did a wonderful job on the video!

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    • Could you please credit the translator or link to where you got the translation in your video?

      Your annotations also appear to leave out some of the lyrics or change them a little from what the linked translation says. Which is at your discretion of course as it's your video but it does make it somewhat different than what the lyrics are supposed to be.

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    • I know I'm late, but is Eve a demigoddess now, considering her family's relation with Held?

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    • Technically being descended from Held is only a rumor in their world that may or may not be true so she could have God blood in her. Considering her extremely powerful magic it does seem plausible. I just wonder how and when. Like Held incarnated as a tree so I wonder how his blood got into the Zvezda family.

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    • If the rumor is true, it's possibly connected to Held being used as the model for the Elphes. For all we know, the Zvezdas are the progenitor or original prototype bodies Behemo made for them and had used Held's own genes for them.

      It's also notable that we got slight elaboration on Eve's abilities. It's not just lightning, but other powers like possibly hypnosis that are "forbidden" and apparently sealed away. How and why those powers developed and if they share any connection to the prior rumor might end up rearing its head with future Eve appearances.

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    • Wouldn't that explain how many of the Elphe characters in series are noted to have magic potential, then? If the connection to the Elphe people and Held is tied to genetics to some degree. Though the Zvezda's being specifically descended is curious.

      Also, it's additionally curious how Eve and Maria are both Miku. Makes me wonder what the connection is, and if Maria might be the answer to Miroku Miku and Michelle (possibly Margaret as well).

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    • What Elphes have strong magical power besides Eve? Both Michaela and Gumillia were originally forest spirits with said power prior to reincarnation. I don't recall any others who were notably talented with magic.

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    • Hard to say, all the Hatsune characters are either Eve, forest spirits are have nothing to do with being an Elphe.

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    • Okay, shifting topics...how are we going to handle Barisol? Because, from I stand, there isn't much debate on it being Levia and Behemo. Unless, of course, you want to argue that's there's another pair of twins, one of whom a crossdresser, who was on an ark that left Second Period, who also did research that contributed to the creation of mankind.

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    • We said that about Nemesis being Master of the Hellish Yard (as in the only one).

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    • It'd be a hell of a stretch if it was somehow another pair and I feel like there's... no room for reasonable doubt, honestly. But since the song and booklet didn't explicitly name Levia and Behemo as the subjects of the song... I feel like the best course of action is to say that Barisol "appears to be about Levia and Behemo prior to the creation of the Third Period" or something like that.

      It seems pretty obvious that it's about them, but assuming the obvious has backfired before (Allen and Irregular always comes to mind) so it's probably safer to not use definitive language.

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    • in Malice's defense, Barisol is a lot more explicit.

      It was more than an inference or connection with lyrics and phrases. The song straight up describes Levia and Behemo's story (plus parts we didn't know), the crossdressing, girlfriend maid; Behemo's maid dress... entering a university; Levia's labcoat, Malice destroying the world, the mention of "twins", riding the ark across a "black sea", 72 people on board

      If it's not about Levia and Behemo, then it might as well be about no one, because no one else fits the bill.

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    • I think people, when they bring up the connection with Nemesis, forget that the Hellish song was about Nemesis. We were right in assuming that. And how could we know that there was another Hellish running around?

      To add onto that, there is nothing to prove that Seth is the individual Nemesis contracted with. Seth is stuck in hell and there is nothing to say he specifically is the one who did the contract or that he could possibly do that. Yet our articles say it's Seth anyway because, well, who could it be currently?

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    • I'm almost certain Barisol is about the god twins, but with Mothy, you just never know; it seems impossible for it to be about anyone else, but Mothy always finds a way to make impossible things seem more likely.

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    • As Celine said. Yes, it sounds like them, but. Again, we thought there was only one Hellish and that the Hellish in all cases was Nemesis. But we were proven wrong, even though it appeared to match up rather neatly. The debate wasn't JUST over the song, but all appearances of Hellish, keep in mind.

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    • But in this case, we're only talking about Levia & Behemo's appearance on Barisol's Child is an Only Child, not all of Levia and Behemo's appearances ; in which case, we could always revert it if mothy does another plot twist like it again.

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    • We could, but I agree with Olivemeister's suggestion: stating that it appears to be about Levia and Behemo but there is currently no explicit confirmation. Anyone in this fandom will know that this means, "We're pretty sure this is what's true but Mothy's burned us before with other 'obvious' things."

      And agan, see the Allen = Irregular example. We were dead wrong about that, despite the mountain of evidence and how obvious it was that they were the same person, they obviously are not.

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    • The song itself is a bit more explicit than other songs we've been more vague with interpreting. Taking the booklet into account, the snake being the researcher of parallel worlds as well as an assistant in the creation, kin of the dragon(s), a mad scientist, and later a demon pegs Seth there.

      A brother with knowledge of bodies and a sister with knowledge of minds escaping a world consumed by malice on an ark with 72 passengers including themselves crossing a black see to a new paradise where they would likely make a new mankind narrows it down to only one event. The track title originally in Barisol's spot being "Dragon Gods Levia-Behemo" strengthens the case.

      67.65.248.113 wrote:
      [Snip] there is currently no explicit confirmation. [Snip]

      Explicit conformation is subjective. See Elluka and Mikulia. Is it wrong to assume Allen in SCP and Allen in Cloture are the same Allen's until mothy says otherwise? It's also seemingly obvious but could be changed within the span of a short story.

      The Hellish song's events merging with Nemesis' ended up being correct. SCP brought along a firm confirmation of a secondary Hellish character which required separating a few Appearances but otherwise purely adding new information provided in SCP and later Pierrot to the new character article created; nothing changed regarding Nemesis' article's information. This was the same process done with Elluka Clockworker/Elluka Chirclatia and Mikulia Greeonio/Mikulia Calgaround, though in that case new information did get added/changed in the original articles to accommodate the new information.

      These types of twists will occur regardless of our decisions so long as mothy wills them to be done, and have the potential to cover any and all characters. It's a matter of using context and indication of the current information to draw lines for organizing said info for this wiki. Otherwise, we might as well not have anything but media articles.

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    • Again, there's the Irregular case. Allen was considered to be safely grounded in canon as the Irregular in all cases and this was backed up by other characters calling him such multiple times at multiple points. This was proven to not be accurate with SCaP, which proved the existence of another.

      I guess what I'm advocating is a policy of providing leeway in the writing of articles somehow? :|a Mothy HAS used non-explicit things to screw with us before even if it was, as with Irregular, a seemingly sure thing.

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    • Ok, one: Can we say 'mindscrew' here? Two: Mothy's actually being a little clearer in interpretation on something?!?!? Gods help, it's the end of the world!!!

      Now that that's all done with, it seems I'm not the only one, after seeing the translation of Barisol, who thinks the scientist is Seth. Though as I'm quite one-hundred percent certain I've been wrong before, I could be wrong again, here, on it actually being Seth. So I'm just going to wait and formulate ideas in my mind until Mothy comes up with new information and more plot twists for us to enjoy.

      ............Yep, it's going to be a loooong night... for the umteenth time in these last few years since I got into this series.

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    • In response to people using Irregular...

      That's not really true.

      Irregular was not a "safe" option. Indeed, the only connection Re_birthday had to Allen were the SoE and a vague line near the end. Absolutely nothing bar a single visual cue tied Irregular to it, and it in fact created contradictions. And the first time Allen was called irregular, it was given context.

      There is a LOT more evidence with Barisol being about the Twin Gods.

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    • I'm happy to know that I wasn't the only one who thought that the parrarel world scientist was Seth. But he was able to cross over to the new period without needing the death of Levia, right? Why would she even think that Seth wanted her place in the ark if he still get's a spot anyways? Wait, he was a mask right? Did he just swith host bodies or something?

      It's intresting though to know that Seth has knowledge about parralel universes. If we find out that the other Lens aside from Hansel who seem to have a connection to the end of the world (Allen, Court!Irregular, Punishment) Originally existed in a parrarel world where the end they represent existed, I would not be surprised.

      Putting that aside, I'm more interested in the Song I Heard Somewhere and just how many similsrities and differrences there are with the lyrics of Laboratory Under a Moonlit Night . Aside from the chorus part and how someone told them that "I can't return here anymore, You must continue with your experiment,", both songs talked about how "Two have become One," with Rin saying "It doesn't mean their worth twice as much," and Irina saying "They cannot become double," (I was under the impression that they were talking about Levia and Behamo being merged and becomming Elluka then)

      But aside from that? I still can't put it in my mind that Irina is the singer of LUAMN. The singer in the Lab song seemed to have wanted to 'create' a particular person, while Irina wanted to make everyone 'evil'. Another thing, the singer seemed certain that "She will always be here", the reason Irina continues to live is because she has a purpose, to make everyone 'evil' and get revenge, but the mysterious singer sounded as if she knew that know matter what happens, she will still be there.

      Basically, their songs seem to diverge in meanings a bit after their instrumentals. But that's just my opinion.

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    • Irina says the song (Clockwork Lullaby) changes each era. WP/FML uses "la la la lu lu lu", while Irina in ASIHS uses "lu li la" (this variation is used throughout EC, the Third Period)

      The connection is very clear, but I don't think it's safe to assume the Rin in FML is Irina. If only we could get a PV for ASIHS... perhaps including that mysterious Rin...

      my thought is that the Rin from WP/FML is a young Levia (according to Barisol, she went to college at a young age and studied why war and hate happens)

      but that doesn't explain the connection of Irina and FML... and if we assume the Rin from CL 1 is the one from WP/FML, it doesn't explain why she uses lu li la then...

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    • There is very, VERY little to think it is Levia in FML save for the fact that she is a scientist and Rin character. Literally nothing she does in FML squares with what we know about Levia's actions. She was not attempting to create anyone during her college days, and if we are assuming she is the girl in Barisol we know that she wasn't created, she was given birth to. There's also the fact that she acknowledges that if she killed Behemo, she would be infected/permanently altered with Malice--for any value of what that means, it suggests that she hasn't killed anyone yet. FML mentions her coat getting stained with blood, which suggests she has.

      Rin character is not studying war. She's experimenting with life.

      FML also mentions playing with someone and "always being here". I don't know about the first one, but I doubt she would have planned to always be in college.

      I'm not saying it's 100% Irina, because there are issues with linking the songs up. But there's more to suggest it's Irina than suggesting it's Levia.

      As for Barisol's Child, what we can say with more certainty is that even if it's not Levia and Behemo, mothy has left enough explicit clues in the song that he wants us to make that assumption. Pretty much every single person who saw the whole song assumed it was about Levia and Behemo--Even me, and I originally refused to believe it was until it was finished. This isn't a case of us jumping the gun on vague information like Allen and Irregular (where there were a few vague hints but nothing that, say, described Irregular as "a boy who died in a revolution to save his princess sister"). Mothy is giving us a sign pointing at what conclusion we should draw about it. Might he put in a plot twist at a later point? Perhaps.

      Considering everything going on in the song it sounds highly unlikely that it could be referring to any other set of twins, especially considering how it answers one very nagging and persistent question for those of us who care about how twin genetics work--how could Levia and Behemo--and by extension, all the other Kagamine twins--be identical but opposite sexes? It seems at first like mothy's just rolling with how the Kagamines are designed in Vocaloid canon. But now we know. It's because they're not twins like we thought they were.

      --Not to act like that's legitimate proof but to pull the rug out from under us and say "Haha it's actually another set of twins altogether!" after putting in so much evidence that it's Levia and Behemo would be just making a twist for twist's sake, rather than elaborating on vague information in a way we didn't expect.

      It's not like we haven't done this in the past. Think of Blink and And Then the Girl Went Mad--we assumed they were about Riliane and Nemesis without album confirmation of their names, despite the fact that neither song (or album, unless I'm remembering wrong) explicitly gave them. Because we knew based on context that it was highly unlikely to be anyone else.

      I'm not saying putting in a qualifier to suggest we're not certain would be the worst thing in the world when writing the article, but it just seems unnecessary to me.

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    • Barisol definitely acts as a teaser for the next material in line. I think we can safely assume that it's Levia and Behemo in Barisol. The reason it doesn't explicitly state that the song is about them is that he doesn't want to put too much information in an album.

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    • I agree here with Emuei-san. Mothy's only being a bit more clear about this to leave us on the edge of our seats to find out what happens next with this. Even if no information is updated immediately, it still seems obvious. And if we're getting this, it's obvious it'll lead to something even bigger. The only question is what... But we could speculate that all day and still probably not be prepared for what we do get.

      Is there any new information that we have at this point?

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    • But if Levia and Behemo were Barisol's children, wouldn't that mean that Gudonechia was destroyed by Malice and that 72 passengers were present on the Ark while it escaped from Gudonechia and then, even after a thousand years and Levia's knowledge of the cause and prevention of Malice, the Second Period was destroyed the same way and the same number of passengers were present on the ark while escaping the Second Period? It's stated that the twins had come to bad terms before the destruction of Gudonechia, so they had to have met before the Second Period, but it isn't stated at any point that the gods were reincarnated or split after they created the Second Period so that they could meet again. However, the processes that happened after the creation of the Second Period are unknown to me.

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    • Maybe I'm repeating someone somewhere (given that there's a lot of responses in this and the last thread for this, it's possible), but just because it's not stated things happened the same exact way, it doesn't mean it didn't have an eerily similar result, right? I mean, if we (gods forbid!) use a little real life logic, doesn't history tend to flow in patterns? This is all just my speculation, but maybe the same applies here, and both periods met similar ends. It's Mothy--I wouldn't be at all surprised.

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    • 23.122.217.39 wrote:

      Rin character is not studying war. She's experimenting with life.

      I was referring to Wordplay.

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    • Can we have a rule to not use "it's mothy" as a legitimate argument in debates because it really doesn't mean anything anymore.

      We know how the Third Period ends, and it's not this. We also know how the First Period ends in that we know hundreds of gods got on the Ark, not 72. It is referring to the end of the Second Period, plain and simple. To use "real life logic," history tends to occasionally flow in vague patterns, not specific "all of these variables will be exactly the same" patterns. 

      But to address Guardian588, nothing confirmed Gudonechia is the First Period and no, there was nothing stating Levia and Behemo got on bad terms before the destruction of Gudonechia. (They could very well have gotten on bad terms during the creation of the Third Period.) There is nothing stating Levia and Behemo were even alive in the First Period.

      For all we know, the Second Period consisted of more than one planet and Gudonechia was one of them. Or Behemo was born on Gudonechia, if it's the First Period, and grew up in the Second Period. 

      Or, since Behemo in this would be from another universe, Behemo is just referring to the fact that his homeworld is in a different dimension and also met its end. Gudonechia could be the Second Period of Behemo's world. I don't know why I spaced on that, but Gudonechia does not necessarily have to be from the Universe that we typically see in Evillious (presumably Levia's universe.) In fact, it seems to be most likely since the narrative specifically mentions it as Behemo's home and not Levia's.

      tldr; I see absolutely no contradiction regarding this info and the info that Behemo's birthplace was Gudonechia.

      • Bolded my main points //shot
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    • But it isn't that similar. On Gudonechia we had wonder-child Levia still researching Malice, realising its cause and the prevention, but in the Second Period we have a grown up Levia with that knowledge and she even survived Malice. Why wasn't she able to explain it to the only 72 passengers then? Also, that would mean that humans (or at least their prototypes) had already existed on Gudonechia and that Malice was known on Gudonechia.


      EDIT: Didn't see the other replies. Isn't on both Behemo's and Levia's pages the statement that they lived on Gudonechia and had to come to bad terms, and it's even referenced in the Heavenly Yard?

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    • Yeah, Mothy being Mothy is a pretty stupid reasoning, so I shouldn't be trying that by this point. Well, I'm trying to be a little helpful in some way, even though I'm usually missing things somewhere.  Either way, at least I'm a bit cleared up here. The only thing bugging me now is that I'm kind of back at square one from where I was after reading all this. @_@ Also usually why I keep my fingers off the keyboard most of the time in these threads, but that's not entirely important now, I guess.

      Though if I'm honest, the whole different dimension thing in this is a bit jarring for me. It's like, 'Ok, where did this come from???'

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    • Guardian588 wrote:
      EDIT: Didn't see the other replies. Isn't on both Behemo's and Levia's pages the statement that they lived on Gudonechia and had to come to bad terms, and it's even referenced in the Heavenly Yard?

      The pages were working under the assumption that the two were actual twins, and thus Behemo's birthplace was Levia's birthplace. However, the actual narration did not confirm Levia also lived in Gudonechia and, with the introduction of the idea that Levia and Behemo did not grow up in the same place (and that they did not grow up in the First Period,) this means that the pages are out of date and cannot be used as evidence.

      The pages also make assumptions about where things happened on the timeline when the narrative doesn't specify. When a line is prefaced by "at some point" that typically means the sequence of events isn't set in stone. 

      In short, don't rely on articles when debating.

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    • Well, in terms of the alternate universe thing, we know that both periods the gods were from was incredibly, incredibly advanced. Possibly so advanced that they had technology that allowed them to travel to alternate worlds. I'm not sure how much that affects the origins of the gods we know about, but I think that, as the First and Second Period were destroyed, and, in contrast to how they handled the previous worlds Sickle instituted a no-interference policy, it's likely Evillious will not feature alternate worlds in it. Not impossible, but unlikely. It may just be a feature that's relegated to backstory, sort of like "oooh look how advanced they were they even had dimension hopping".

      It's also possible that in this multiverse there's only the two--perhaps Behemo's world wasn't as lucky as the people in Levia's world in escaping Malice, hence why, rather than just leave him alone, she took him back to her world.

      --Assuming that she just took him back to her world rather than traveling to his (which I think is the most likely assumption but that part at least is incredibly vague), as she and the scientist in her world knew of the ark.

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    • But what about the part of the song which calls the daughter as the older sister and the son the younger brother? Wouldn't it mean that the Levia is older than Behemo and if we consider the idea of parallel worlds (the timeline must be parallel as well, so they had to be born at the same time), wouldn't Levia had to have met a younger Behemo, essentially travelling worlds and time? Might be just an empty clue...

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    • It looks to me that the line is indicating how Levia and Behemo present each other as twins.

      In real life, twins have to be born one after the other; one of them is older by a few minutes as a result. If, for the sake of ease, they present as twins Levia probably presents herself as older and Behemo as younger. Maybe even just because she's a lot more precocious than Behemo apparently is.

      In short yes, it looks to me to be an empty clue. 

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    • OK, thank you for some clarifications! I really just wanted to free my suspicions about this whole thing.

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    • So, yeah, guess we've come to an agreement here?

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    • Well, I've certainly nothing more to say on this one, without sounding like an idiot or anything. XD

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    • Can we assume that these trees are part of Held's forest?
      SethIrinaSongIchika

      Evillious has only one forest--

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    • Doesn't this take place in Levianta, though? It looks like Seth there, especially since he's got the red cat. Then again, I'm not sure we know how long it takes for someone to get to Elphegort from wherever in Levianta Project MA takes place. So at the same time, I wouldn't be surprised if that is the edges of Held's Forest.

      Held's Forest is the only named forest as I recall, yes, but there could always be those unnamed ones, too--

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    • It could be but the booklet talks about Seth going to Held's Forest and why would Irina be there? It's probably not supposed to represent a certain forest and was just a cool background choice by Ichika.

      Also regarding her new illustrations she has deleted her Barisol's Child is an Only Child image from tumblr and posted something about how her fanart is not canon (I can't read Japanese but she labeled the post NOT CANON so). I wonder if something actually happened for her depicting Levia and Behemo as the characters from Barisol's Child or if she just re-thought and didn't want to make any assumptions. 

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    • Oh, I ididnt know. Well we can still keep Barisol in L&B's galleries.

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    • PrincessAcedia wrote:
      It's probably not supposed to represent a certain forest and was just a cool background choice by Ichika.

      Yes, it's an artistic decision, like the other song work.

      Her post afterward was just her being safe about what was "rationalized" from the prose and song, along with giving her own personal fan theories about different things based off song impressions.

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    • I can still see Barisol image in her tumblr.. Can we keep those "non canon" song images in the songs' galleries? We did so with [i believe Painter Brioche's] image of Salmhofer

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    • I think what Ichika wrote under the images is something like "Though I think I can pinpoint who these characters are but since no names were mentioned, the images are just expectation/interpretation"

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    • I have a question that's been bugging me about Barisol. The move between periods as presented in the song has the twins getting along, but multiple sources and characters state that Levia and Behemo hated each other for awhile. :|a When did this come into play?

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    • Maybe Behemo asked to wear Levia's dress and she said no? :P

      Levia is noted to dislike his crossdressing habit...

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    • Actually, to my memory, the source that said they hated each other was Sickle's narration. Guess that wasn't quite right?

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    • Wrong. It was the third person narration in Heavenly Yard. That said, it wasn't specific if it was actual unadulterated hate or just sibling rivalry; the idea that they went mad out of hatred for each other was speculation on the part of the narration (so as not to admit that they were mad at Sickle because of his rule of no-interference.)

      Maybe making the Third Period rose tensions around the God household? 0 0

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    • Sounds like a reality show XP

      The details of the gods world get curiouser and curiouser...

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    • So, is it about time that Maria/Alice gets her own page, considering we know more about her or is she still too minor?

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    • QueenCeline wrote:
      So, is it about time that Maria/Alice gets her own page, considering we know more about her or is she still too minor?

      I think Servy has her test article in his sanbox.

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    • Emuei wrote:
      QueenCeline wrote:
      So, is it about time that Maria/Alice gets her own page, considering we know more about her or is she still too minor?
      I think Servy has her test article in his sanbox.

      She doesn't meet our line count and we already have enough minor characters backloaded who do meet our requirements. If gets lowered significantly in the future, she will though.

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    • I tried to edit Servy's test in my Sandbox. English is not my native language, so sorry  [not sorry] if there are grammar mistakes.

      Does it still not meet the line count?  I don't know how much it is orz

      I just really want Maria to have a page.

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    • Did Maria hear her 'parents' say that her parents would destroy the world or the gods would destroy the world?

      And what's of the following are true:

      Maria perceived the gods as her parents (only knowing them as her parents rather than gods), or

      Maria perceived the gods as her parents (knowing her parents are gods), or

      Maria perceived the gods and her parents as seperate entities (knowing gods exist alongside her parents and her parents are the messenger of the gods, delivering the message by means of the bottle)

      I'm confused.

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    • Emuei wrote:

      Snip. I'm confused.

      Your confusion confuses me too.

      For the first thing; Maria says that her prophecy is false so I think that she  said the destroying thing just to accelerate the process of project ma. But it's not well  explained in QotG/Act1/CE, so we should remain somehow vague on the matter.

      I do believe she thought that Levia&Behemo are her parents AND gods. She said in Project Ma that "the twin gods must be born" and in QotG the gods say "create a human vessel for us"

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    • Pierrot's narrator states the destruction of the world was part of what Levia-Behemo told Maria for her prophecy. It was all part of her same belief. She seems to lose faith in whether what she's saying is really

      There's also no denying the quote in the song that Levia and Behemo use "our" vessel so at least she's under the belief they are her parents, whether that's true in some form or not. We should be vague on her actual parentage imo, same with whether she's a literal doll or not.

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote:
      Pierrot's narrator states the destruction of the world was part of what Levia-Behemo told Maria for her prophecy. It was all part of her same belief. She seems to lose faith in whether what she's saying is really

      There's also no denying the quote in the song that Levia and Behemo use "our" vessel so at least she's under the belief they are her parents, whether that's true in some form or not. We should be vague on her actual parentage imo, same with whether she's a literal doll or not.

      I was under the impression that Levia&Behemo, masquerading as her parents, told Maria that they knew the gods and delivered the gods' message to Maria that the gods would bring destruction to the world. And then some time later she started to doubt her choices and her parents.

      I was just wondering because it would be pretty weird for Maria to hear her parents say that they (her parents) would destroy the world if she didn't do anything about it.

      Anyway thank you guys for clearing up. I missed the lyrics of QoG; Maria should know that her parents are gods.

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    • Emuei wrote:

      I'm under the impression that Levia&Behemo, masquerading as her parents, told Maria that they knew the gods and delivered the gods' message to Maria that the gods would bring destruction to the world.

      The issue is that the quote of the song addresses her as their "dear daughter Alice" before immediately going on about making "our vessels". Maria didn't prophecize the world would be destroyed if her (presumably human) parents weren't incarnated as humans; it's the twin gods. She can't be both aware and unaware her mother and father are Levia and Behemo.

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote:

      The issue is that the quote of the song addresses her as their "dear daughter Alice" before immediately going on about making "our vessels". Maria didn't prophecize the world would be destroyed if her (presumably human) parents weren't incarnated as humans; it's the twin gods. She can't be both aware and unaware her mother and father are Levia and Behemo.

      Thank you for your explanation. I accidentally press Reply while I was trying to edit my last post XD

      I missed the lyrics of QoG; Maria should be aware that her parents are gods

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    • So, the Song I Heard Somewhere, does it occur after the events of Moonlit Abandonment. I ask because of the line where Irina says she sees seven lights scattering and I assume those are supposed to be the seven sins being unleashed from Eve. Am I wrong or do we not know yet?

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    • QueenCeline wrote:
      So, the Song I Heard Somewhere, does it occur after the events of Moonlit Abandonment.

      I think the song lasts from the catastrophe, to her incarnation in the cat body, to her time of doing experiments, to the unleash of seven sins.

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    • Well, the song starts after the Catastrophe (Seth approaching her), then fast forwards to the seven sins being unleashed and continues a bit after that

      I forgot the protocall for timeskip songs. Does that mean we'll put it after or before?

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    • Scarletta Agni wrote:

      I forgot the protocall for timeskip songs. Does that mean we'll put it after or before?

      When it comes to the previous and last links in infoboxes, we typically put them based on how much they cover or where they end depending on the subject matter (DoW's content predates DoE/SoE but goes farther than either and so is placed after).

      I'm not sure if we've had a song that's focused so heavily on one period of time then timeskipped later toward the very end for a much smaller bit before.

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    • Is there any chance we get PVs for the new songs?

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    • Hmm, now that we know that Queen of the Glass is not about Eve...

      I think most have noticed by now that every Eve character has the Miku Append (which one I can't say. Someone help?). Flower of the Plateau, Gift and Moonlit Bear remixes, Project Ma... Well, every single one of them.

      I think this should be mentioned in a trivia, quite honestly.

      Eve having a different append before entering the project in Project Ma is also something to notice, by the way. That should probably be a trivia point as well.

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    • None of those sound good enough to be mentioned as trivia.

      You skipped over the exceptions of the original Gift and Moonlit Bear (which isn't Eve as someone else, it's really her)

      The changing of appends isn't really important. If it was, we'd have to mention after repenting, Riliane changes from default to Append Sweet

      There could be a theme of Eve and appends but it doesn't seem really strong enough to be mentioned.

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    • Maybe it was decided after creating those songs. It's not a huge detail, I just think it is a nice curiosity that'd be interesting to mention. 


      I didn't actually knew the Riliane detail - and to be fair, I think it should be mentioned as well. Quite honestly, I think it portrays the character developments and such in such a subtle, interesting way. 

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    • It's something that could be mentioned in the songs but that sounds more like a technical detail than trivia. I don't think it has much to do with character development so much as both mothy's improved tuning and software purchases and the tones he wants for the song.

      Trivia I think would give it more in-story significance than it likely has. I feel it's more that mothy used the various appends to get the sound he wanted, not necessarily "X character is more aggressive/kind/etc so they are using X Append".

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    • 37.130.224.202 wrote:
      Is there any chance we get PVs for the new songs?

      From Mothy? Probably not, but fans make them all the time, including a few people frm this wiki

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    • mothy said he was considering a PV for maybe Survival Ma. Whether that comes to pass, something else takes his place, or he does none of it is only for time to tell. If we did get an official PV for one of the new songs, I think Only Child or Heard Somewhere would make for good ones for artists to illustrate.

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    • A PV for Survival Ma would be good. We could get illustrations of Ly Li and Milky Eights, and even pictures of how they died. It could even have illustrations of other characters there isn't art of on the wiki, like the 3rd, 4th, and 5th Ma canidates; Marina Lucif, and Irta Li.

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    • Off-topic, I heard Mothy is planning on continuing the Evillous Chronicles for another five years. Is that true?

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    • QueenCeline wrote:
      Off-topic, I heard Mothy is planning on continuing the Evillous Chronicles for another five years. Is that true?

      Yes. Not relevant to this thread at all though so please keep it off of here. ;p

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    • Only child and Heard Somwhere would be interesting to have pv with, but I don't think it would have one...The Only Child one would be easier to make though.

      The songs were written to be self explenatory, a bit different from the other songs since these two songs would have to takle storytelling problems, like the pacing of the video and the information that would be given.

      If the pv was made simply to hold the song, then...yeah, it could work. But if were talking about storytelling that would fit in nicely with the pacing of the songs then...i'm not so sure.

      Through i would like to see a pv on the only child one (To get a glimpse of the first/second world and the scientist who studies parralel worlds) It's unlikely.

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    • I don't think Barisol is going to get a PV, the song is pretty clear and explicit - a PV would amost seem redundant. I think a song like QotG may get a PV; it could explain how she 'made' Adam (if he's the Jesus child she abandoned) and other stuff- kinda like TMoN PV intruduced the amazing Ziz.

      I actually disagree with Sloth's trivia suggestion: mothy often uses the updated version [Append/V3] of the vocaloids he owns when he makes remixes (Kaito in Project Ma remix thankfully excluded): mothy used Rin/Len append (I believe) for L&B, H&G and R&A. Also the awful Kaito V3 from JoC. So yeah, not really a trivia thing.

      • I don't know if it's made on purpose, but the "family tree" of the Moonlit family is the opposite of Galley's: Len (Behemo) "grandfather", Miku (Maria) mother, Kaito (Adam) son vs Kaito (Galley) "grandfather", Miku (motc) mother and Len (Irregular) son.
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    • So, I originally thought that Queen of the Glass and all the songs with Eve (Moonlit Bear, Gift from the Princess who Brought Sleep, etc) had different appends. As in, there was a SPECIFIC append for Eve. Hence why I suggested the trivia.

      Seems like I just misheard it? My bad then. ^^'

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    • I dreamed about seeing Survival Ma PV yesterday lol. I don't remember the details but it was pretty intense.

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    • I don't think that Adam is the child Maria abandoned, he would know far too much and the profile calls him Prophet Marry-Go-Round's son--tying her to her PUBLIC identity and not just her private identity. It's far, far more likely he has an older sibling somewhere who will, pardon my wording, come back to bite us in the ass.

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    • Well, with Mothy, you never know until he confirms it, so it could be an older kid who will turn up some time later, though I personally want it to be Adam; it would explain a few things.

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    • I agree with it being Adam but, under our current policy, it might be best to "pretend" Maria had another child for now =3

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    • I don't think it's Adam. It's way too conveniant a set up to the Crim-Marlon line for it to be Adam and not another child. I say call them Maria's unnamed child and put them as a minor character for now.

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    • I feel like the best thing to do for now is to note it under Maria's stub and Adam's page as something like "Whether or not this refers to Adam is currently unknown". I don't know how that bit from the booklet is going to be written out, but there's really not enough info to say anything but "We don't know if it's Adam or not". 

      Assuming that that the abandoned child is Adam seems silly to me; nothing ever said Adam was an only child as far as I recall, and even so, given the circumstances he probably wouldn't even know about the sibling. A key element of this abandoned child is the "abandoned" part, which explains why we haven't heard of them before. Until the spotlight was shone on Maria, she (and possibly Seth) was the only already-existing character who could tell us about this.

      Though, it wouldn't surprise me if the reason the baby didn't die was... because Seth took it.

      I wonder who the base for the ghoul children Seth made in Project Ma was, assuming there was one?

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    • QueenCeline wrote:
      Well, with Mothy, you never know until he confirms it, so it could be an older kid who will turn up some time later, though I personally want it to be Adam; it would explain a few things.

      What, exactly, does it explain? It leaves a million more holes open to me, the least of which is how he became named Adam Moonlit whom the Senate allowed onto the project knowing full well that Maria Moonlit had tossed a child ino a river at their urging. How would he know anything given his adoptive parents would have no clue who he was? He'd have absolutely zero reason to believe anyone claiming he was Prophet Marry-Go-Round's child, anyway, as he could easily be from anywhere even if he's adopted.

      All we know is his motives are that he despised the Senate using his mother, which is far more easily explained as him seeing his mother constantly manipulated to their whims (giving false prophecies that favor them) and despising it.

      Sorry if I seem rude, but the "Adam is the abandoned child" seem to create more problems than it solves.

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    • How did Gretel know Eve was not her mother? She was a newborn when Moonlit Bear happened, it's unlikely she'd remember anything. Is it just her twin god fragment magick powers again?

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    • I don't think it has anything to do with magic or anything. It's just kind of a common trope in fiction for adopted children to have this innate sense that their adopted parent isn't their real parent.

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    • there's also the fact that adam and eve have green and blue hair while hansel and gretel are blonde. I mean she was an incomplete copy of a "once in a millinium" genious who was in college by age 6, so she might have just put two and two together

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    • It could be simply intuition on part of Gretel being the more astute twin of the two. However, Arte's also demonstrated to have at least some memories of her past life so there could be more to it. I doubt it's related to the Levia-Behemo dragon since that event doesn't occur until EC 013.

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    • So, I was wondering about that line in the booklet mentioning a "Girl of Creation" who creates a new world after the Boy of The End destroys it. Is this hinting at what role Gretel will eventualy play? I also wondered if the singer of Clockwork Lullaby could be a Girl of Creation as well, but that's more of a theory.

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    • Honestly, I don't know if any of this is significant but it's been nagging terribly at me ever since it occurred to me.

      I was thinking about the whole "Should we consider Levia and Behemo represented by Rin and Len based on Barisol" discussion that was going on a few days ago and how the end result was sort of "Rin and Len being the singers of Barisol makes it seem like it's confirmed". And they're now listed as represented by said Vocaloids, which I agreed with as something that's likely the case in terms of "if they're represented by Vocaloids, it has to be Rin and Len".

      But... isn't Barisol's Child exclusively in third person? I don't know enough Japanese to say either way, so I don't know if this is something that happens in Japanese that doesn't have the connotations it does in English - the idea that a third person POV distinguishes the speaker/singer from the subject character. The song doesn't seem to be sung by the characters, rather someone telling their story.

      So if that's the justification for Levia and Behemo being listed as Rin and Len characters, I think maybe there's reasonable doubt still?

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    • Olivemeister wrote:

      So if that's the justification for Levia and Behemo being listed as Rin and Len characters, I think maybe there's reasonable doubt still?

      The reasoning is rooted in Queen of the Glass and the agreed upon use of Rin and Len during the quoted portion of the song.

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    • I don't know how I forgot that, I'm astounded at myself.

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    • also, i think DoE is also in 3rd as well

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    • DoE is in 3rd, as is some of Master of the Hellish Yard; I don't think there's any doubt that those songs are sung by the referenced characters. What I was getting at wasn't "3rd person = singer isn't subject of song" - rather, it was "there was a song before where the singer wasn't the character being sung about" - Master of the Graveyard is another one like this, though the MOTG does appear in the song.

      Nevertheless, my reason for bringing the point up is irrelevant given that I forgot about the use of Rin and Len in QotG.

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    • Conchita sings in 3rd person anyway

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    • Again, you seem to have missed my point. It was "we have cases where 3rd person is used and there's 100% confirmation that the singer isn't the subject of the song, so we shouldn't consider Levia and Behemo to be Rin and Len characters based on that."

      I forgot about Rin and Len portraying them (using first person, which leaves no room for doubt) in QotG.

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    • And besides, let us be reminded, all the Kagamine characters are derived from them.

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    • That's still missing the point, Malice. Mothy has explicity said the cover of Original Sin Story CE didn't have Vocaloid characters on it. Thus he didn't consider them Vocaloids, and so we couldn't know for sure that they could be considered Kagamines themselves, regardless of the clones.

      This discussion is moot, however. We don't need to make a case for them being Kagamines because, as Olivemeister has stated, the original comment was without taking into account QotG. Case closed.

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    • Well I hope anyone won't mind if I change the subject: I posted a comment in the List of Minor Characters in OSS but I feel like I should discuss it here.

      Are Lucif's children comfirmed ancestors of the Lucifenian Royal Family?

      How should we treat Cain and Abel? Since they are supposed to be the vessels for L&B, I guess that they are a boy and a girl, but it's not technically comfirmed. Also, I strongly believe that they are represented by the Kagamines, because the 2 other couple of twins are (H&G and Lucif's children being the ancestors of the Ortodox Lucifenians). What do you guys think? Should we refrain from making this assumptions? We could always change it in the future

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    • Yes, it's confirmed in the bonus story after Pierrot; Behemo says so when he meets Allen.

      As for Cain and Abel, that's still up in the air, i think, so we should just leave it ambiguous IMO

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    • I agree, the Lucif's children deserve an section by now, plus they actually have supporting evidence.

      I dislike the Cain and Abel assumption. Mothy probably chose that biblical message for a reason, I doubt they were a boy and girl. Eve was unsuccessful because they were stillborn, but maybe giving birth to only boys was also part of it. We don't even know if only boy&girl twins were acceptable. The whole process of Project Ma is still very shady and ambiguous, there isn't enough evidence to start taking the jump for that assumption.

      "We could always change it in the future". We could always add it on, in the future once we are exposed to more information.

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    • Imma agree with what the people above me said and point out that it's entirely possible, if one candidate didn't birth twins at all, for another to birth the wrong kind of twins (i.e identical rather than fraternal.) They probably are Kagamines, but there's not much to be gained from putting that on their section so it's probably not worth arguing.

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    • Danytaly wrote:

      Are Lucif's children comfirmed ancestors of the Lucifenian Royal Family?

      Yes. The bonus story was very clear about their relation to the D'Autriches. Seeing your comment, I have no issue with a minor section to potentially help clarify the royal bloodline connection, but it's our first section for two characters who we know little about without even any names. Do we call them "Unknown Lucif Twins"? It's rather vague.

      Danytaly wrote:
      How should we treat Cain and Abel? Since they are supposed to be the vessels for L&B, I guess that they are a boy and a girl, but it's not technically comfirmed. Also, I strongly believe that they are represented by the Kagamines, because the 2 other couple of twins are (H&G and Lucif's children being the ancestors of the Ortodox Lucifenians). What do you guys think? Should we refrain from making this assumptions? We could always change it in the future

      Cain and Abel are already problematically birthed children so there's plenty of room to doubt other aspects of them were consistent with H&G. Until we're given more information, it's best to remain vague on gender/appearance imo.

      Edit: To confirm, are we understanding that Behemo murdered the maid and her limbs were left lying around or sticking to just being suspiciously warm "doll" limbs? It's the last point that needs input before adding the song's info to articles.

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    • That's probably what Mothy wants us to think for the time being. Hopefully he'll confirm or deny that up at some point, but for now it should be treated more as an speculation rather than confirmed fact. I doubt that Levia would be happy to find out that her other self had already killed someone right before she brought him to her world.

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    • Yeah. I mean it's possible that Behemo could get away with murder because he wasn't infected with Malice and so it wouldn't have given him HER or something, but I think mothy wanted it vague for a reason. Remember, he does play with dolls. It's possible that he had them all stored in his room, and someone discovered them then tore them apart.

      At the very least, the dolls being torn apart is meant to be creepily representative of a murder scene. Apparently バラバラ is often used as a descriptor of particularly messy killings that cut people into bits.

      So, either it's a euphemism for murder, or someone "murdered" Behemo's dolls. Possibly whoever's angry at him.

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    • It could be that someone besides Behemo killed them. In my opinion, the "as pretty as a doll" line about Behemo's girlfriend the maid was fairly obviously meant to plant the idea that the "doll" mentioned later in the song is not actually a doll.

      I feel like the "doll" that is torn apart is definitely a person, but the person who killed them is more vague.

      Given the fact that Levia's world was actively being destroyed by Malice (and presumably by people infected with Malice), the shouting voice that Behemo is afraid of could be someone who was tainted. He locked himself in the room to hide despite the corpse(s) in it because it was the only option he had, and took the escape route that Levia gave him. 

      My presumption is that he, like his counterpart, is being infected by Malice and acted on his murderous impulses after being rejected and called disgusting by his girlfriend. However, I think there's a (slightly less intuitive but equally probable) different explanation in that another person is responsible for the murder(s).

      So until we have a little more elaboration, the safest option to me is that if the "doll" is the maid, but her killer is currently unknown.

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    • I think it'd be safest to just assume that the dolls are dolls for the time being. 

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    • Sorry, I meant "in the instance we assume the doll is the maid", didn't make that clear enough.

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    • Thinking about the logic of his suggestion to kill her other self was as a means to destroy her own malice, the implication would seem to be Behemo himself was struggling or even gave into it.  And considering Seth gets past the radar as a HER regardless, who knows if/how the gods would be able to tell with Levia and Behemo.

      Anyway, I think suspiciously warm doll parts is the best way to go for now, too. If we're wrong, mothy's going to have to give us more clarifying it for the change. The majority seems to be for avoiding Behemo being considered a maid murderer so I'll give that a pass for our information.

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    • I think that since malice was causing normal people to suddenly become killers, the only requirement to get on the ark was to have never killed anyone. Seth (if we assume the scientist is Seth) may not have killed anyone yet and would have been given a pass on the ark. If only so many people could be brought aboard, then they would've only allowed the people who were the  least likely to go on a murder spree. Levia had to have been the last person on the list, and Seth was right behind her. He would have been able to get on that list of passengers of Levia didn't meet that requirement.

      She didn't kill Behemo, so she could still get on the ark, and because Behemo was family, he was allowed on as well. Seth being a mask could've easily been a stowaway.

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    • Come to think of it, maybe Seth's plan didn't work on Levia, but someone else that already had a seat did become an HER shortly before takeoff? Another possibility, anyway.

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    • That would also make sense. Levia asked for his advice but didn't fall for his trap. If she thought that he was a good person to ask then parhaps someone else did as well. The difference is that this other person did fall for it, and Seth got that person's seat.

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    • We have to keep in mind that there's a hole on how exactly the ark boarding system worked. As the song is implying, there was at leat some degree of time and planning to this escape beforehand but enough room to fit both Levia and her twin.

      As pointed out, Seth's a mask with unknown abilities. He could've easily stowed away on anyone's face (or at least in a god or kin's possession). It's not like he takes up significantly more space (or seemingly supplies) than any of the others. There are various options when we have a ship of 72 and they clearly weren't using any kind of HER detectors to regulate who got on if the sentient mask got by okay for all that time.

      Future releases are probably going to have to elaborate on the Second Period (and a little of the First Period's history to describe its destruction) and what exactly was going on with HER Syndrome if we're going to be focusing more on the gods' origins and how their actions directly affected what's going on in Bolganio.

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    • Question, is there anything to indicate the guy Levia talks to is Seth and not just some random guy?

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    • QueenCeline wrote:
      Snip.

      As brought up in the last variation, the "serpent/snake" the booklet talks about has had several identities, listing off a research of parallel worlds, assistant in the world's creation, kin of the dragon(s), a mad scientist, and then a demon. 

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    • Oh, ok, I didn't see that, I guess.

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    • I have a question: how much do we know about the "seeds of malice?" They seem pretty important in Seth's experiments to create ghoul children and HERs, so I was wondering if it is possible for them to get their own page or something like that.

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    • I don't think we know nearly enough to justify them getting a page of their own. They're important plot-wise, but I can't imagine it would take more than a few sentences to sum up all we know about them - at the very best they could be outlined a little more in the ghoul children article, but I feel like it's a stretch even then.

      All we really know (afaik) is "they're used by Seth while making ghoul children to create HERs".

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    • Hmm... I was wondering if there could be a page that's dedicated to any techonolgy or magical tools/objects that don't have enough information to get their own page, like how there are pages just for the minor characters. The "seeds of mailice" could have a small section with a definition and an explaination of its plot relevence.

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    • There's literally not enough to even say what they are, is the problem. That's not enough to even get their own section. (We generally don't say "it's related to the plot because this" in articles.) Seeds of malice would be better explained on the malice page.

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    • For the time being, any seeds of malice reference should link to the HER Syndrome article, where the relevant information we have is listed. We need a lot more information about what they are to justify adding an entire article for them.

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    • Well, that's unfortunate.

      To change the subject, I have a theory (more of a hypothesis) that the death of Eve's twins wasn't actually Adam's fault, but Seth's.

      Seth wanted to make more HERs, so when Levia and Behemo were being incarnated as people, he wanted to make sure that their human bodies had HER so they would have the disease. Seth had Maria isolated/killed because she was the only person who could talk to them, and they couldn't find out about his plan. The problem arose when Adam became head of the project, but killing him wasn't an option because the project was motored so closely that the opportunity never arose. Instead, he saw to it that Eve's babies were born dead. Adam, blaming himself, left the project to be with Eve. 

      Once becoming the head of the project, he did his best to make sure that Levia and Behemo's human vessel were HERs, so they would have it. Meta was Seth's first choice because she was a HER so her babies were garenteed to be HER too. The other canidates were failures for the reasons listed on the wiki, but also because trying to get a nonHER mother to give birth to HER children proved to be difficult. For the 5th canidate her body killed one of the babies for being HER, and the 6th candiate's children didn't even have it, so Seth had someone kidnap them. Irina, having HER, was what Seth wanted, and she would have become the Ma.

      Fornately, for the gods, that didn't happen.

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    • It took me so long to write that entire comment that Servy posted something before I did. I also can't believe I misspelled fortunately. I blame my tablet.

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    • Only problem with your theory is that Maria was demonstrably not isolated or killed, at least not at the time of Hansel and Gretel being born. I'm not sure why Adam would be so much of an issue either. > >

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    • I was think of Adam's line about how Seth and the Senate took his mother away. Adam had a thing against Seth, and as his boss might have treated Seth less like a fellow scientist and more like an intern. Denying Seth access to the big awesome lab equipment and have him go to the store and buy everyone donuts. With Adam as the head Seth is denied the opportunity to give Eve's babies HER via those "seeds of malice." So Eve's twins weren't going to be HER, so they have to go, and Adam is likely being a jerk, preventing Seth from accomplishing his goal.

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    • You got me on Adam denying Seth access, but the line about his mother being taken away is most likely referring to how the senate manipulated her to be "like a doll" as said in his profile. And again, Maria was in power and making public decrees at Hansel and Gretel's birth.

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    • I hadn't thought about how Maria established the calendar, though when Project Ma was going on, what Maria was allowed to tell Levia and Behemo was likely heavily regulated. So Seth could control or at least limit how much the twins knew about current events.

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    • There's nothing to indicate that Maria's communications with Levia and Behemo were regulated in any way (as far as I'm aware).

      I'm also not sure Maria was their sole source of information (or that she was even a source of information at all, as she seemed more interested in asking than answering). It seems to me that Levia and Behemo had some ability to influence and percieve events even while inside the ark, as evidenced by the whole thing with Kiril. ...And I'm not sure what knowledge they did or didn't have has to do with your theory, although I might just be confused because you're responding to multiple points at once.

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    • Seth's plan is to have Levia and Behemo incarnate into humans who have HER. Imagine what they would think if they knew that. Levia wouldn't like that because Seth would be purposely infecting her with what caused the destruction of her world in the first place. Behemo would feel similarly, and he also doesn't like Seth's creations so becoming one of them is out of the question.

      The theory is this: Seth wants to make the twin gods HERs, and the things that he does it achieve this are prevent the twins from figuring out his plan, kill Eve's babies so Adam will leave, and make certain that the human vessels have HER.

      The wiki page for Levia and Behemo suggested that who they could talk to was limited. They also never found out because they Maria didn't suddenly tell everyone that the gods changed their minds about reincarnating. (If they did, then that's would be why they talked to Kiril in the first place.)

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    • Octofan wrote:
      You got me on Adam denying Seth access, but the line about his mother being taken away is most likely referring to how the senate manipulated her to be "like a doll" as said in his profile.

      There's likely more to it than that if Adam is pushing the onus on Seth as well.

      I'm not sure about Seth isolating her to keep her from talking about his big plan. She seems largely ignorant to the machinations going on and only has political sway when making prophecies; the senate seems to do what they want with her otherwise. I doubt there'd be any issue if the twins suddenly changed their minds (and they didn't given they were still trying to get their twin vessels before giving up and going for Kiril and Elluka).

      Your suggestion it was done to keep the twin gods from seeing too much (if you assume the twin gods can only perceive the world through those prophets who can commune with them) sounds more plausible imo.

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    • It seems far more likely to me that Venom, like most medicines nowadays, wasn't tested on pregnant women. That's the big reason why most medicines/drugs come with the big warning of, "TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR IF YOU ARE PREGNANT OR MAY BECOME PREGNANT!" Because it hasn't been tested and they don't want to pay for testing it on women who are or may become pregnant.

      It just so happens that, well, the drug happened to cause miscarriage (stillbirth is just the late term version of miscarriage). As well, you're assumine that Seth hadn't already infected all of the God Seeds in advance with how far ahead this dude was already planning. I'm pretty sure Adam wouldn't be blaming himself for the deaths of Cain and Abel if he could pin it on Seth--or even suspected he could.

      As well, Seth couldn't have predicted Adam WOULD leave with how determined he was--he had no way of knowing Adam would fall so hard for Eve and wouldn't just discard her and try again. There's too many holes in the theory of, "Seth killed Cain and Abel so Adam would leave the project." It's far more likely, IMO, that he manipulated Adam onto the project via Maria--his biggest, most obvious weak point. That way, when and if the twins showed signs of HER, it could be pinned on Adam and not him, allowing him to move freely still.

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    • I disagree that Adam wouldn't blame himself. As head, if one of his workers was incompotent and caused a problem, it would still be Adam's responsibility. He was the one who gave Eve Venom, so the fault would be on him.

      If it truly was Venom that caused the miscarriage, than that might have been Seth doing, because, after all, he is supposed to be the snake. As god kin and a scientist, he knew more about the world than other humans, and likely knew about a mysterious substance that could make people fall in love, and also make them infertile. He mighted told Adam that if Eve had some and fell in love with Adam, she would be easier to work with. (or Seth told someone who told Adam)

      On the fact that Adam left, I always found the part in the Project Ma song where Adam suddenly confesses his love to Eve to be very strange. Sure he manipulated her and ruined her, so he feels sorry for her, but now he suddenly loves her? Does the fact that she looks like your mother not bother you at all, Adam? Venom was used on Eve so she'd fall in love with Adam, so Seth could use it to make Adam fall in love with Eve. Just like with Kyle, love can make people do things that they wouldn't do otherwise.

      On your point about Seth infecting the God Seeds, I doubt Seth had that much time to plan ahead. The time between Maria annoucing her prophecy and when Eve was selected as canidate didn't seem like a lot of time for a famous scientist like Seth to sabotage a project being run by a man who hates his guts.

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    • 1. Adam might have blamed himself, sure. It would be his fault. But the reason he quit the project was because his love for Eve allowed him to realize how power-hungry and cruel he had been, and he gave up his quest for vengeance/ruling the country. If he hadn't loved Eve, he would have stayed on. Consider how many failures Seth had and yet was still allowed to continue the project. The point is that Seth had no way of knowing that Adam would quit once Eve was a failure.

      2. Adam has no reason to take advice from Seth on how to control Eve. Considering he hates him and doesn't trust him, it's unlikely that he would use a mysterious drug that Seth recommended without at least testing it first. It's possible he didn't know all the side effects, but it's unlikely that it was by Seth's efforts alone Eve was made infertile.

      3. We do not know for a fact that Eve looks like Maria or is related to her at all. Literally the only thing that have in common is that they share a Miku, which could mean any number of things--one theory I have thrown out there is that she's a Miku because she becomes one later as Master o the Court, similar to how Elluka is a Luka because she (or Levia anyway) takes Lukana's body later. At this stage of the game it's indicative of nothing.

      4. Adam could have fallen for Eve as they were spending time together. His manipulations ranged from the drug to legitimately spending time with her and getting to know her so that she didn't realize she was being used. During this period he could have slowly come to love her for who she really was, and only realized his true feelings upon seeing what a mess he'd made of her life. As he wasn't driven partially insane by the events of the project, whereas Eve, muddled by the drug, was, it suggests he was sober and aware of his actions when he left.

      5. The odds of Seth being able to sabotage Cain and Able do seem pretty low, considering the time frame and his then-lower authority in the project.

      Personally I think it's more that he saw an opportunity when Adam left and took it, not that he personally engineered events. There's evidence to suggest you can infect already born people with Malice, so perhaps his plan was originally to get close to the twins and infect them when they were young, before Levia and Behemo got in them.

      I would also like to point out that all of this is unsubstantiated theory. There is a possiblity of it being true but nothing that can conclusively state it one way or the other. I personally recommend any further focus on it be moved to an appropriate discussion thread, and this one kept for actual album/OSS content, possibly having these replies copy and pasted over.

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    • What that anon said. To me, this actually feels more like trying to absolve some blame/turn Adam into a woobie and make everything ever Seth's fault when the biggest point in Evillious is that EVERYONE can do horrible things given the right circumstances. Adam, desperate to get back at people for using his mother, brainwashed and used a woman he later fell for. Pinning that on Seth with no concrete evidence, and, what I feel, removing responsibility from Adam would take something away from the character and the story.

      As well, while Adam would be blamed at work for it, that doesn't mean that it would be his fault if it's Seth's doing. If he knew it was Seth who sabotaged things, then he'd not have any reason to blame himself for the death of Cain and Abel at all--project lead or not, because it would be a direct action of the man he hates and has no reason to take the heat for personally.

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    • Looks like the album has been restocked today. Link to buy on Toranoana.

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    • Why buy it when you just download the songs for free?

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    • QueenCeline wrote:
      Why buy it when you just download the songs for free?

      Sorry for going off-topic, but generally, buying stuff is a really nice way to support the person making the stuff. Every purchase counts. Not to mention some crazy collectors might just like having the product in nice, tangible form. But mostly it's the support thing. Gotta make money somehow. Resi out.

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    • It's called wanting to have the actual album with all the visual goodies that come with it. Although that registration process scares me. Do you think the album will get on Amazon like the last one?

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    • Well technically downloading the songs for free is illegal and a breach of copyright. Not that mothy seems to care too much that people are uploading the songs on Youtube but the least we could do is try to financially atone for it, as it were.

      Although personally I'd rather buy from Amazon as well > >

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    • Yeah. Mothy's nice enough to not mind much about the stuff on YT because he seems to be aware that it's hard for us to get stuff overseas and that's the best way we can consume stuff and keep up-to-date music-wise, and he seems to adore that he has a worldwide audience.

      But that hasn't stopped me from buying stuff when I have the money to, even if I technically downloaded the same thing.

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    • Okay, I'd like to suggest some trivia points for Barisol. In order:

      • There are parallels to Noah's Ark. In the story, there had to be 2 of each animal (one female, one male) in order for the species to continue. If it's true that all the passengers of Sin were the last of their kind, then Levia and Behemo were "special" in a way.

      *Also, Seth's advice that Levia should kill her "other self" to end her murder impulses seems to be a reference to the concept of a "shadow " in psychology, which is called an "unknown dark side". Mothy seems to be going for this reference given the fact that Levia studies the mind.

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    • It is a reference to Noah's Ark but there's nothing about them being "The last of their kind" or specific reference to there being two of each person. There's a reference to Noah's Ark in the journey from the first period to the second as well.

      --Basically I agree it's a reference to Noah's Ark but I don't know why we need an analysis on what it could mean for the story based on stuff that isn't supported by the text.

      I say no on the shadow bit. We don't know enough of what Seth's logic was and there isn't enough supporting it to say for certain. This seems more like speculation--interesting, but mere speculation all the same. There could be many concepts he's drawing from on his advice.

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    • DANY REPORTING FROM DUTY!

      So to avoid a thousand comments on the song's page or on chat, I've come up with some points to discuss.

      • The title. I'm gonna copy paste what Emuei said on the comments "At 3:27 during the bridge, I can see 'Clockwork Requiem / Clockworker'. Clockwork Requiem is the official English title and Clockworker is the Japanese title of Kiyoteru's version of Recollective Musicbox. So I'm gonna guess he was going with Ma Survival as the Japanese title, and Levianta Four Ladys as the official English title. But it shouldn't be Survival Ma".
      • The Engrish. I'd be in favour of changing Ladys into Ladies (like we did with pierrot)- but this time is different, since this one really is the canon English title. So, while a part of my brain dies while reading this, I'm ok if we keep 'Ladys'
      • Milky's descendants. mothy wrote about her descendants (also on twitter) and mentioned "Foundation". As we dont have a translation yet, I'm not sure if he's saying that her descendants are the freezis or not
      • Ly's vessels. Mothy comfirmed on twitter that the swords she's holding are the Twin Swords of Levianta. Aside from those, in the PV you can see a pretty suspicious red glass in her dining table and a couple of (big) yellow mirrors (that aren't the small hand mirrors we know of). The first thing I thought of (a lucifenian having a glass and mirrors) was that it could've been a reference to Riliane, but it might have been just me
      • Also, since I can't find anyone on chat  friendly reminder that we need to translate mothy's latest tweets.

      I'm really glad that we got backgrounds, especially for the inconoration of irina thing! We even got illusts on the money used!

      Dany out.

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    • Official traslation: Ma Survival

      Official English: Levianta Four Ladys

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    • Lol good job Dany

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    • Danytaly wrote:
      • The title. I'm gonna copy paste what Emuei said on the comments "At 3:27 during the bridge, I can see 'Clockwork Requiem / Clockworker'. Clockwork Requiem is the official English title and Clockworker is the Japanese title of Kiyoteru's version of Recollective Musicbox. So I'm gonna guess he was going with Ma Survival as the Japanese title, and Levianta Four Ladys as the official English title. But it shouldn't be Survival Ma".

      Since you didn't bring this up, I'm going to point out the Ma in this upload lacks the Japanese 「」. I'm not sure how we want to handle that in relation to the song title (You dropped the ' ' we currently have in yours), but if it's a concern, we may want to extend this to any and all uses of this punctuation. It's superfluous imo so I'm fine with either.

      • The Engrish. I'd be in favour of changing Ladys into Ladies (like we did with pierrot)- but this time is different, since this one really is the canon English title. So, while a part of my brain dies while reading this, I'm ok if we keep 'Ladys'

      It's not the first time Engrish was used in these (though mostly capitalization). I'm not opposed to it either way.

      • Milky's descendants. mothy wrote about her descendants (also on twitter) and mentioned "Foundation". As we dont have a translation yet, I'm not sure if he's saying that her descendants are the freezis or not

      mothy's only reinforcing what the end of the PV confirms. Pale and Milky had a child, the descendants of that child eventually founded the Freezis Foundation. His tweet wants to make sure no one tries overthinking it as anyone who's read the books would know what it's referencing. This essentially implies Mikina is a descendant of that child.

      • Ly's vessels. Mothy comfirmed on twitter that the swords she's holding are the Twin Swords of Levianta. Aside from those, in the PV you can see a pretty suspicious red glass in her dining table and a couple of (big) yellow mirrors (that aren't the small hand mirrors we know of). The first thing I thought of (a lucifenian having a glass and mirrors) was that it could've been a reference to Riliane, but it might have been just me

      It may just be Ichika creating a callback; I thought the same thing when I saw the way Ly was framed with the food along with the mirrors in the background. Regardless, this tweet confirmation wasn't in the PV (as far as I noticed) so we should make sure that's properly referenced and don't misplace the info.




      I'm sure many have noticed the use of the Seven Deadly Sins in the PV plus another term which mothy's tweets would indicate is in reference to an "eighth" sin. Ly's associated with Gluttony (the actual term, not the Conchita typo for once) and "Vainglory", Milky with Lust and Greed, Irina with Depression and Wrath, and Elluka with Pride and Sloth. I definitely think this is relevant for trivia for each woman, regardless of any relation to the vessels of sin.

      Kirilavatar2
      With the various faces cropping up, we can now consider new options for character infoboxes. Kiril is my current example but I'm willing to edit together others.

      Besides what Dany's already mentioned, the most notable PV info relates to the Li family surviving the catastrophe, heading east, and founding a country that falls apart within a few centuries, along with a scientist seemingly nudging Irina to kill the other potential candidates so she's be accepted. I would assume that's Seth, given the context. It's also stated that Irina was the Queen for less than a year when Levianta went boom, meaning we have a good deal of time between Irina killing Elluka and Kiril trying to resurrect her.

      And finally, the PV itself gives us Kiril with the knife referenced at the end. My impression was he seemingly plotted to kill Irina in his despair, possibly just before Levia began speaking to him. Either way, it means he was at least considering it sometime before Levia and Behemo got ahold of him.

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    • for consistency, I prefer 'Ma' Survival. Ma always have the Japanese 「」 so lets add them here too.

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    • Irina isn't "envy", she's "sorrow" or "melacholy"

      But i prefer ma survival without the ' '

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    • I'd prefer we stick to the current title of "Survival 'Ma'". Also, I'm all for Kiril's new avi.

      I'm curious regarding what country the Li's founded though.

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    • Yes, that looks like a much better avatar for Kiril.

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    • 1. I'd prefer 'Ma' Survival, but I'm okay without the apostrophes too.

      2. In this tweet 2コーラスめ辺りに出る文字は七つの大罪ではなく「八つの枢要罪」。 mothy said that the eight terms in the second verse are not the Seven Deadly Sins, but rather the Eight Evil Thoughts that the modern concept of the seven deadly sins originated. Here is the wikipedia article.

      3. I think with Kiril holding a knife in his arm at the end, HER has re-emerged inside of him.

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    • Emuei wrote:

      3. I think with Kiril holding a knife in his arm at the end, HER has re-emerged inside of him.

      That does remind me... Elluka fully eliminated or just supressed Kiril's HER syndrome?

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    • The country that the Lis founded is probably a reference to the nothing-country behind the wall.

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    • Hmm, good to know the pv contained more than I caught on my one early morning watch on Nico mobile.

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    • Along with the other vessels being shown (or referenced), is it just me or is Kiril's knife golden? Like, it's the vessel for Wrath? 

      Bit rabbit-traily, but I find this interesting... Kiril having the golden knife, and he revived Levia aka Master of the Hellish Yard... the same title Nemesis has, and she uses a key-version of that same knife (if it is the vessel). Reference maybe?

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    • CaptainLudisimo wrote:
      Along with the other vessels being shown (or referenced), is it just me or is Kiril's knife golden? Like, it's the vessel for Wrath? 

      Bit rabbit-traily, but I find this interesting... Kiril having the golden knife, and he revived Levia aka Master of the Hellish Yard... the same title Nemesis has, and she uses a key-version of that same knife (if it is the vessel). Reference maybe?

      Yeah, I noticed the same. The color of that dagger is suspicious. Also, it seems to be the same blade used by Irina when she stabs Elluka. Definitely there's a connection there

      By the way, if Seth words are right, he started to create the Vessels of Sin after he was expelled due his human cloning experiments, until he was readmitted into the Project MA when Adam defected, so it's not absurd to think that Seth lent the future Vessel of Wrath to Irina and eventually ended in Kirill's hands after the murder of Elluka.

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    • I definitely think those are some very purposeful references with the sins. I do have a theory and pose a question: if Seth was able to escape the Ark, why not any of the other Sins? Only a theory, but it would explain better why, say, the Demon of Gluttony knew what vaccines were without it being "somehow remembered life before being sealed." I definitely think we're building up to something big reveal-wise.

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote:

      It's also stated that Irina was the Queen for half-a-year when Levianta went boom, meaning we have a good deal of time between Irina killing Elluka and Kiril trying to resurrect her.

      I wonder if they preserve bodies with magic, I don't want to know what state a 6 month expired Elluka would be in.

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    • MaxusFox23 wrote:
      Emuei wrote:
      3. I think with Kiril holding a knife in his arm at the end, HER has re-emerged inside of him.
      That does remind me... Elluka fully eliminated or just supressed Kiril's HER syndrome?

      The former but that's still vague on what it means. This condition carries over in the soul and Elluka's unique method isn't known. At the same time, does wanting to murder a HER who killed your beloved and drove you to despair really require you to be a HER? I'd certainly prefer that wasn't the case, especially since he doesn't even go through with it in the end once Levia and Behemo decide to use him.

      Adept-eX wrote:
      CaptainLudisimo wrote:
      Along with the other vessels being shown (or referenced), is it just me or is Kiril's knife golden? Like, it's the vessel for Wrath? 

      Bit rabbit-traily, but I find this interesting... Kiril having the golden knife, and he revived Levia aka Master of the Hellish Yard... the same title Nemesis has, and she uses a key-version of that same knife (if it is the vessel). Reference maybe?

      Yeah, I noticed the same. The color of that dagger is suspicious. Also, it seems to be the same blade used by Irina when she stabs Elluka. Definitely there's a connection there

      By the way, if Seth words are right, he started to create the Vessels of Sin after he was expelled due his human cloning experiments, until he was readmitted into the Project MA when Adam defected, so it's not absurd to think that Seth lent the future Vessel of Wrath to Irina and eventually ended in Kirill's hands after the murder of Elluka.

      It looks pretty clear to me that they're not the same blade; ignoring the fact the blade colors are different, their shapes don't even closely resemble one another. You can argue Kiril may have Grim the End, but it's big jump to assume Irina had it too imo.

      Seth wasn't "readmitted" into Project Ma after Adam left. Adam fled, he took over, Meta fled, his human experiments were discovered, he was fired, and somewhere between then and Survival's events, he was put back in charge. When he started experimenting with trying to create the vessels of sin is vague so it is possible he passed it on though it seems silly he would want to experiment on Irina while giving Kiril a means to assassinate her. 

      66.139.155.97 wrote:
      I definitely think those are some very purposeful references with the sins. I do have a theory and pose a question: if Seth was able to escape the Ark, why not any of the other Sins? Only a theory, but it would explain better why, say, the Demon of Gluttony knew what vaccines were without it being "somehow remembered life before being sealed." I definitely think we're building up to something big reveal-wise.

      The Demon of Gluttony's vaccine memory can also be hand-waved the same way Elluka Clockworker's residual memories of Levia have been: the sealing process post-reincarnation is imperfect (at least for gods/kin). What exactly would this theory be?

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    • 2. In this tweet 2コーラスめ辺りに出る文字は七つの大罪ではなく「八つの枢要罪」。 mothy said that the eight terms in the second verse are not the Seven Deadly Sins, but rather the Eight Evil Thoughts that the modern concept of the seven deadly sins originated. Here is the wikipedia article.

      Different articles in both the English and Japanese sites give varying translations of the same terms. Not sure if "Sorrow" or "Depression" would be better but I think we should at least translate those in common with the Japanese SDS the same.

      Octofan wrote:
      The country that the Lis founded is probably a reference to the nothing-country behind the wall.

      It doesn't seem like it would be enough info about the nation for an article even if we did assume that. It might be better to treat them separate until we get more firm correlations between them.

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    • Mainly my theory is wondering about how if Seth could somehow escape his confinement (which still isnt's explained), why couldn't any of the others? Makes a lot more sense to me that something that would be in Levianta (vaccines) would come up before residual memories. It's more just something vague to keep in mind in the future, especially since Mothy doesn't usually include things in PVs like this that end up not meaning something. Levia and Behemo in particular seemed to need something specific in their vessels (high magic? not much other reason that high magic would be a requirement for MA). Seth seems fairly normaly.

      But, just a theory, nothing more. Just something I'm musing on to keep in mind as we go into the future.

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    • My only issue would be how these demons who escaped would be reincarnating like Seth and keep their memories as humans (let alone when reincarnating again as demons); Rahab and Seth are confirmed anomolies and Gilles/Greed are both male while Milky is female so I'm not seeing the correlation. Neat idea to have in mind though.

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    • To be fair, this is Evillious. One of our demons is literally a mask, so I could see a male demon incarnating into a human female body once. But I definitely find it suspicious that a prostitute with a sword is named Milky Eights. When Octos have been the mainline Venomania descendants.

      But yeah, mainly something to keep in mind. It may not be what's going on, but it's my first thought. But there is definitely something connecting these two to the later Sins, I don't think Mothy would randomly reference things like that if they meant nothing.

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    • 66.139.155.97 wrote:
      Mainly my theory is wondering about how if Seth could somehow escape his confinement (which still isnt's explained), why couldn't any of the others? Makes a lot more sense to me that something that would be in Levianta (vaccines) would come up before residual memories. It's more just something vague to keep in mind in the future, especially since Mothy doesn't usually include things in PVs like this that end up not meaning something. Levia and Behemo in particular seemed to need something specific in their vessels (high magic? not much other reason that high magic would be a requirement for MA). Seth seems fairly normaly.

      But, just a theory, nothing more. Just something I'm musing on to keep in mind as we go into the future.

      It really doesn't make sense only he escaped if it was by his own power, because then the others should have also escaped. So what if someone actually let him out instead? Either someone had to let him out from the outside (requiring a whole new character and possibly an a$$-pull) or they pooled their power together to get someone out, and could only do one person. The second seems more likely because they're trying to basically get their revenge for what happened and having someone either accidentally or purposesly release release one of them from the outside doesn't seem so plausible. But this is really just my opinion on it, and it could be for any reason only Seth got out.

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    • On the topic of avatars that was brought up eariler. I like the one with Kiril that is up there but I don't like having Elluka right in the corner of it. Also should Elluka's be changed or Irina's since it seems we can finally have an icon with her original body. Then obviously Ly Li's and Milky's to something from the PV 

      edit: my suggestion for Elluka's 
      EllukaAviMaybe
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    • Wanderingsilverrose wrote:
      It really doesn't make sense only he escaped if it was by his own power, because then the others should have also escaped. So what if someone actually let him out instead? Either someone had to let him out from the outside (requiring a whole new character and possibly an a$$-pull) or they pooled their power together to get someone out, and could only do one person. The second seems more likely because they're trying to basically get their revenge for what happened and having someone either accidentally or purposesly release release one of them from the outside doesn't seem so plausible. But this is really just my opinion on it, and it could be for any reason only Seth got out.

      That brings up the question of why they chose Seth, though, instead of, say, Rahab who had ties to Levia and Behemo that were more concrete and she'd be much more likely to do as they wanted, whereas Seth was someone who was a relative unknown. But we'll just have to see.

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    • PrincessAcedia wrote:
      On the topic of avatars that was brought up eariler. I like the one with Kiril that is up there but I don't like having Elluka right in the corner of it. Also should Elluka's be changed or Irina's since it seems we can finally have an icon with her original body. Then obviously Ly Li's and Milky's to something from the PV  edit: my suggestion for Elluka's 
      EllukaAviMaybe

      I'd like this idea for Elluka's avi (as it's more dinamic than the frontal one), but I think that we'd need a bit more of her top head, for a good avi.

      I think we already discussed Irina's avi thing, which is, since most of her appearances are with the cat + medium, her avi should have the cat + mindless medium (and the current avi fits this criteria).

      Since Ly's mouths are weird in the full body illusts, I think that the best avi for her would be the dining table one (at 2:23). The same for Milky, we don't have much of a choice, so I'd go for the "full body with the eyes open" at 1:27 or 2:12.

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    • Lyavatar2
      Lyavatar3
      I have two options available for Ly. Both portray different aspects of her character fairly well imo so it's really up to personal preference. The only other major differences I can see is the linework and shading.
      Milkyavatar2

      We've had Irina's current avi based on the last discussion for some time. I'd still say her most iconic appearance is as the cat with a body in a black cloak but that's just me.

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote:

      It looks pretty clear to me that they're not the same blade; ignoring the fact the blade colors are different, their shapes don't even closely resemble one another. You can argue Kiril may have Grim the End, but it's big jump to assume Irina had it too imo.

      Seth wasn't "readmitted" into Project Ma after Adam left. Adam fled, he took over, Meta fled, his human experiments were discovered, he was fired, and somewhere between then and Survival's events, he was put back in charge. When he started experimenting with trying to create the vessels of sin is vague so it is possible he passed it on though it seems silly he would want to experiment on Irina while giving Kiril a means to assassinate her.

      I didn't explain myself properly. I mean Grim the End could have ended in Kirill's hands by accident, if Irina left behind the murder weapon. Although you're right, the blade color is different in both cases (I didn't notice that at first)

      Anyway, if Kirill had the key that would explain how he could infiltrate into the Temple, a forbidden place for most of the Levianthans, although that's just speculalation (that would arise the question how he could get it).

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    • The top avi doesn't seem very good because of her head's angle and her face isn't very visible (the open mouth version would be just as bad or worse imo)

      But the bottom one seems too cheerful for our gloomy little Ly and lower quality since it's a distanced drawing

      Any other possibilities?

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    • It really wouldn't explain though because at this point even if the knife is Grim the End at this point it is nothing more than an average golden blade. Mothy said only one sin vessel was a magic tool before becoming possessed by a Demon of Sin and that appears to have been the Clockworker's Doll since it was a soul cage essentially. We don't know if Grim the End could shape-shift normally or if that is merely part of what it gained the ability to do after becoming Seth's vessel. If Grim the End was a shapeshifting weapon beforehand somehow and not technically being a magic tool I guess it could work. 

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    • Adept-eX wrote:

      Anyway, if Kirill had the key that would explain how he could infiltrate into the Temple, a forbidden place for most of the Levianthans, although that's just speculalation (that would arise the question how he could get it).

      Do we know if the temple is even locked in any way though? I always imagined an open place with columns and maybe guards but if it did have gates or doors or the like, Grim the End would be useful (assuming it already had shapeshifting properties).

      The song and now PV seem to indicate some battle at the temple (or at least a stand-off that could've erupted into one). Since Ly and Milky seem to die in a forested area, I got the impression it's not that hard for someone to get into the temple (especially if one's armed with a claymore) and they were simply interrupted. I may be overthinking it though.

      Scarletta Agni wrote:

      But the bottom one seems too cheerful for our gloomy little Ly and lower quality since it's a distanced drawing

      But Ly isn't gloomy. She's arrogant and, if the terms associated with her are to be believed, gluttonous and vain/ostentatious. There's nothing wrong with her looking like such as far as I can tell.

      EllukaChirclatiaavatar
      If there are other options, I missed them. All the open mouth shots look awkward and the shots of Ly and Milky smiling devilishly are obscured by lyrics in any decent shot. Elluka's a bit more reasonable as we get a good look at her serious and casually happy.
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    • There was a lot of text in the video; a few people here are talking about it but does anyone have all of it or most it translated somewhere?

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    • http://pricechecktranslations.tumblr.com/post/143844347270/ma-%E3%82%B5%E3%83%90%E3%82%A4%E3%83%90%E3%83%AB

      A lot of it is taken from previous album booklets, but here you go 0o0/

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    • Like the extra text? Because Pricecheck on Tumblr has the video text, although I don't know if that is all of the text.


      Edit: Whoops, Octo beat me to the punch

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    • Thanks ^_^

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    • I like Ly and Milky's proposed avi's, although I find the background a little distracting. Is it possible to get the same thing but with a different background? Surely there are other shots with the same art asset used.

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    • I like the smug Ly Li in the chair avi personally, even if I find the lineart a bit thick. As for Milky, I guess that one is good.

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    • GreekTelepath wrote:
      I like Ly and Milky's proposed avi's, although I find the background a little distracting. Is it possible to get the same thing but with a different background? Surely there are other shots with the same art asset used.

      There is. This picture has the same art and a simpler background. I actually prefer it if everyone's avi came from this picture.

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    • The only issue that comes from that is that taking avi's from that picture is gonna result in really ugly blurry avi's that are like how Arte and Pollo's used to be

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    • Astrophysics Person wrote:
      GreekTelepath wrote:
      I like Ly and Milky's proposed avi's, although I find the background a little distracting. Is it possible to get the same thing but with a different background? Surely there are other shots with the same art asset used.
      There is. This picture has the same art and a simpler background. I actually prefer it if everyone's avi came from this picture.
      Milkyavatar3
      The portion you're linking gives very blurry zoomed out images to work with. And like I mentioned in my last post, any decent shot of their devilish smiles is obscured by lyrics. This is the best I can manage.
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