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  • NOTE: This thread is a repost of the original thread closed on April 19, 2015. Please see the second iteration to view past discussions.

    This thread is for the discussion of the above named light novel. All changes related to the wiki to this book should first be brought forward, debated, and decided upon here. Feel free to also use this to discuss theories, give praises, or vent frustrations about the light novel or its contents.

    INFOMINE DIRECTORY
    Prologue

    Part 1: Fifth Pierrot

    Chapter 1: Mother Becomes President

    Chapter 2: First Murder

    Chapter 3: Looking for "Seventh Magician"

    Chapter 4: The New "Pere Noel"

    Chapter 5: There's a Traitor

    Chapter 6: If Only I Escaped

    Part 2: Duel of Merrigod Plateau

    Chapter 1: To Merrigod Plateau, and Sixth Venom

    Chapter 2: Reunion and Confrontration, and the Demon of Wrath

    Chapter 3: The God and the Demon, and her Final Moments

    Chapter 4: The Hellish Yard, and Ma

    Epilogue

    Extra Chapter

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    • One of the great things about more clarification about ghoul children is that it helps makes Kiril's monologue in OSS Act 2 have a lot more context surrounding it.

      From what we know now it would seem:

      1) Kiril was aware the HER phonomena happening in Levianta was because they were all ghoul children like himself. He, like Meta, are somehow aware about them being ghoul children and what's happening because of it.

      2) Kiril believed Seth was also a ghoul child and that the two of them were the exceptions among their kind (not HERs). Kiril starts suspecting Seth though after Irina, a confirmed HER at that point, was going to be the Ma test subject.

      However, while it confirms that Levia had been goading Kiril along as the "HER" Whisper, we still don't have any elaboration on the HER Whisper.

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    • But didn't Irina say Ellka cured Kirils's HER? Did Kiril forget?

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    • 180.95.18.6 wrote:
      But didn't Irina say Ellka cured Kirils's HER? Did Kiril forget?

      He calls himself an exception, that doesn't automatically mean forgetting. If Elluka treated him for his symptoms, then he's no longer going through what other ghoul children have.

      I'm more curious about whether Kiril knew Irina was also a ghoul child or thought she was an exception as well based on what he observed. That seems to be the implication with how it's worded.

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    • So, what do you think happened to Adam?

      Also, I'm really starting to wonder what happened to Pale.

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    • Reading the OSS Act 2 booklet again, I noticed a contradiction: it mentions Sin having gone wild and causing an explosion, while the Pierrot novel states Levia-Behemo wreaked havoc after their dragon body was resurrected. How does mothy explain this?

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    • Probably a PoV thing. To most people, it'd probably seem like Sin blew up.

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    • You overlooked the part where the Pierrot novel explicitly states Sin caused an explosion after going out of control, one that left Kiril nearly dead, destroyed much of the temple and left a huge whole in the ceiling the dragon ran through.

      On a separate note (to confirm), are we still taking what's been told to us about ghoul children to mean H&G are technically among them? Artificial humans created as part of Seth's experiments by implanting seeds of malice into another ghoul child (Meta). Important for our Ghoul Children article going up.

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    • If Seth wanted to create a lot of Ghoul Children, I think it would be logical for him to configure them in a way that when they reproduce, they also produce Ghoul Children, even if the other parent is a human.

      Also, weren't Hansel and Gretel also called "seeds of malice" in the Boy of the End Hansel song? If that's the case, they would technically be Ghoul Children, since the entire point of Ghoul Children is that they contain the Seeds of Malice.

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    • I find it hard almost to not consider Hansel and Gretel ghoul children themselves. Seeing as how Meta seemed to connect with them and recall her past based on theirs as a ghoul child. I think it's a logical conlusion that they are thus just like her. 

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    • I think the implication is clear that Hansel and Gretel are also Ghoul Children, or at least artificial humans of their nature. The fact that they were born of Meta did not impact them being labeled as such by Sickle, after all. > > 

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    • Yeah, I believe that Hansel and Gretel are Ghoul Children. I can't really offer any explanation, because everyone's already stated what I wanted to. So, I agree.

      Also, quick discussion/poll on the upcoming bonus story in June. What do you think we should name it? Pierrot Bonus Story seems like a good title, but the promotion included both the book and the story in the new album. The Japanese name for the promo is something like "Seven Crimes and Punishments × Fifth Pierrot", but that's a little lengthy. What do you guys think?

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    • Then we'll keep treating H&G as they are with no changes.

      As for the upcoming story, I say we shorten it to Seven x Pierrot Bonus Story. All of these lack a formal name so it's the best we can do without making it unnecessarily lengthy.

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    • I vote SCaP x Pierrot Bonus Story.

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    • same

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    • Some thoughts on Levia's past

      Back in SCaP, Allen mentioned that the Black Box had no data on the creation story and suspects that Sickle might of deleated the information. Going off the interpetation that the Mysterious Rin is Levia, then it appears she was either adbandoned or "cast out" by someone.

      Could that someone be Sickle? If so, is he hiding something about his past? There has to be a reason as to why he dosen't even give Allen, his planned successor, his actual name. 

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    • As far as i recall,he's simply forgot his name and 's been greatly amused by the fact (since forgetfulness is a human trait).And as for Sickle' shady past,it's rather "a story for another day(novel)" than a plot device.Probably Envy novel will give more, since fish demon has gave some sneakpeak insight.

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    • Close, but in the text that was Allen only speculating her forgot it, and then finding the notion funny since that's a human thing to do and it's funny to compare Sickle to humans in general.

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    • Will the Elluka Clockworker article be renamed to Levia,  and the early life removed to make the Elluka Chirclatia page? Or will we be treating it like an Eve transmigration and make a separate Levia page? Will Levia redirect to the Elluka page or the vice versa?

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    • We already agreed to do the Eve deal.

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    • Why hasn't the Demon of Wraths page details been merged with Seth and Adam yet?

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    • 110.22.55.215 wrote:
      Why hasn't the Demon of Wraths page details been merged with Seth and Adam yet?

      We're working on it, things like this take time. Just look at what happened with Eve and Elluka.

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    • NinjaClockworker wrote:
      110.22.55.215 wrote:
      Why hasn't the Demon of Wraths page details been merged with Seth and Adam yet?
      We're working on it, things like this take time. Just look at what happened with Eve and Elluka.

      Yes, there's over 180+ new and existing articles that we have to go through for this novel alone, not counting the remnants of SCP we're still working on. Please be patient.

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    • Since we will be getting to it soon, I'd like to get the Seth/Adam organization topic over with asap.

      Adam's been leeching off Seth as part of the key. We don't know when though. Since we still aren't exactly sure what a Soul of Adam is necessarily, it's possible Adam was with Kyle and jumped ship to the key somehow at some point.

      But it's specultion for us to say it one way or the other. So I say we work under the assumption Seth's "always" comment about his behavior covers everything regarding the others' using the demon's power (including Clarith) until we get further clarification. Similarly, we take Seth's "finally [his] turn" to mean he's been taking a backseat the whole time.

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    • Yeah. Hopefully the email story will clairify Seth and Adam's relationship and possibly give some hints on what the Soul of Adam is.

      Bigger question: How sentient is Adam supposed to be? Because from I read, it seems he hasen't been doing well, which he'd have to be doing what he and Seth have been doing.

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    • I think that's fair. For all we know it's also possible that Adam jumped ship to the key with Kachess and Kyle is just "Soul of Adam" because of the genetics Adam left behind. For now I think assuming Adam handled all the power-giving is fine.

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    • So, while we're talking Adam, does anyone think it's possible Adam became Gear? Because it's my current theory. Seth did say Adam left Grim the End after all.

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    • 180.95.18.6 wrote:
      So, while we're talking Adam, does anyone think it's possible Adam became Gear? Because it's my current theory. Seth did say Adam left Grim the End after all.

      It's possible. If you follow the idea a Soul of Adam is exactly what it says (the soul of Adam), then it's possible Adam used the Swap Technique to go from death to the Crims, hopped down the Marlon royal line to Kyle, hopped over to Grim the End, then got blown out and ended up in the spoon and eventually became Gear.

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    • That doesn't work when Seth says that Adam's been the only one to act as the demon, and we know that Clarith and others had encounters with it. So it's been Adam that's acting as the demon. So he can't have been both Kyle and the Demon at the same time...

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    • 67.66.95.172 wrote:
      That doesn't work when Seth says that Adam's been the only one to act as the demon, and we know that Clarith and others had encounters with it.

      "Adam, why aren't you moving like you [usually/always] do?"

      Depending on how that's read, it could be simply referring to a habitual behavior Adam's had since getting in the key, which we aren't told when. Could even apply to Adam's general behavior since Seth's known him since OSS era.

      "After all, you are something akin to a worm leeching off the vessel. In that case--is it my turn? Would be nice once in a while."

      It mentions that Adam's usually been the one acting since he's been in the key but still doesn't give an idea for the exact timeframe. Was it just the past century or up until the entire time?

      Like I suggested a few posts earlier, I think we should work under the assumption of the latter for now but there could definitely be room for elaboration on a more specific timeframe that works with the anon's theory.

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    • I seem to recall Seth outright saying he's never acted as the Demon of Wrath before to Gumillia. I mean, I have no doubt Adam probably ended up in Greed at some point, but it's a question of what Soul of Adam is currently.

      (I'm still banking on the fragmented theory and he's been picking up on his own pieces as time went on.)

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    • Would be funny, if Adam "bargained" demonic status from greed owl.Sounds weird,i know,but not as much as eating demon to became one.

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    • So I was reading Heavenly Yard and something caught my attention:

      When talking about Allen, Sickle says to Held that, while Elluka and Banica have "intresting" exsistence, they were still born under this worlds laws.

      Now that we know that "Elluka Clockworker" was Levia, a being of Second Period, with amnesia, how does this work? The real Elluka dosaen't seem to have anything unique about her in the same sense as Banica and likewise Sickle uses her full name of Clockworker, not Chirclatia, a surname only used by Levika. Sickle has no reason to lie, he's talking to Held for crying out loud. Is this the narration being unreliable on us?

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    • He's probably referring to "Elluka Clockworker" the persona as interesting, either in what she does or how she came about. He knows Held knows that it's Levia in Elluka Chirclatia's body, saying "Elluka Clockworker" is just shorter than "Levia who thinks she is Elluka because she was in her body."

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    • Yeah, rereading it, I took it as "the concept of a reincarnation of two gods in one human body with one active conscious under the belief of being the body's original soul resurrected" was something very neat, considering how it's all in his rules but a very unique occurence to have happened nonetheless.

      I bet he feels the same way about Ma (assuming he was able to properly observe and discern what she is).

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    • With all the new info on ghoul children, does anyone take issue with Meta as a HER? This is the last bit of info for her article so it's important we're on the same page for this.

      She's mentioned the first ghoul child being made via artificial means via seed of malice implantation, she clearly takes pleasure in the bloodshed she causes, and we've been given example of HERs who can feel, guilt, sorrow, regret, and resistance to their malicious symptoms as well as be loving mothers. 

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    • I think it's pretty reasonable to assume Meta's an HER. After all, it seems the only reason Seth's making ghoul children is to spread HER artificially.

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    • Given that the other confirmed Ghoul Children (Pale, Kiril and Irina) are HERs, it stands to reason Meta is too. Which makes me more curious on the background of HER, in particular with the implication that BSS takes place in Second Period. Just another Seth thing for the email story to touch on, me thinks.

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    • Perhaps. It's made clear Malice is the origin of all HERs (or at least those in the Second Period). We still don't have an explanation what caused the First Period to end though or what exactly Malice is. I really hope that "Mask Of Seth" password does mean the story will cover a lot more about Seth and his origins; that could really explain a lot about HERs and the new hell master.

      Considering I think HERs are generally a pretty lazy plot device, I give credit for mothy implying the underlying root for "Evil Raisers" is anything disrespectful/destructive to the gods themselves or what they've created, which pretty much covers everything HERs and the vessels of sin derived from them have done. Rather clever both thematically and mechanically to the story.

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    • Weirdly, I've been theorising that the Mayu girl in BSS is tied to Malice, if just because of the name connection.

      Likewise, how do we cover Elluka's ability to cure HER? How was she even able to do something like that?

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    • Just like to throw something I saw on tumbler out here, but is it possible Eve had HER?

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    • I agree to add Meta as an HER; the text did state specifically that Seth put Seeds of Malice in her zygote and she makes little evil smirks in her PV. > > 

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    • 110.22.55.215 wrote:
      Just like to throw something I saw on tumbler out here, but is it possible Eve had HER?

      It's possible Eve's a HER either by birth or somewhere down the line. We still don't know what her Original Sin is or the exact relationship between her, it, and the demons.

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    • With the mention of the origins of Malice and HERS I'm really starting to believe that the Unknown Patient is the beginning of it all and her name (as silly as it sounds) was actually Malice. I mean MAyu, MAlice. Both have the magical letters M and A. and Mayu is usually potrayed as an evil yandere a lot so yeah. This would probably be better under a theories discussion.

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    • Important topic: How much sould we consider relevant to the demons' articles. More specifically, are we just including the information after they incarnate as the demons of the vessels or do we also include the information for them when they were the six kin.

      Seth's already an exception in that he remembers everything between all his incarnations despite the rules, but the others don't have that made apparent and Seth indicates they're completely ignorant of their past existence. At the same time, we don't have a lot of info on these six kin so they hardly classify for their own articles or individual sections really. This would also affect what we put in the infoboxes.

      Personally, I don't have issue with us excluding the information, but I feel until we learn more about the demons that it's reasonable to segregate the info, it'd be best to keep it all on the respective Demon of [_____] page. There's also the fact the demons appear to regain their memories and didn't die in the world's destruction so we have a H&G/Eve situation here imo.

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    • I think we need to wait for more info.

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    • Since we don't have much info about the demons before their incarnation, I think it's more reasonable to include all of the god kin stuff in their respective pages, at least for the time being.

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    • Yeah, I agree. The amnesia does intrigue me, though, especially since Seth still clearly has his memories. Makes me wonder what Seth and Sickle's exact relationship was.

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    • It's a little different from the other cases we have, too. We have Levia and Elluka's pages separate, for example, because after losing her memories she took on an entirely new identity. Same for Eve, we don't seperate her and her personas just because she doesn't remember herself, but also because she acts as someone entirely different (or rather they are entirely different characters.) In the demons' case, they don't seem to have adopted new personas so much as they don't remember their old ones.

      It's like how we didn't make a separate page between Duke Venomania and Cherubim just because Sateriasis doesn't have most of his memories as Cherubim. 

      ->inb4 "We should separate Cherubim and Veno"

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    • Well, Sati got his memories back later, but your point still stands and I agree wholeheartingly. Not to mention, once we learn the real names of the other demons, it'll be a whole lot easier to rename the articles.

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    • Should Master of the Court be added to Eve's other names?

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    • It'll be added. Oversight when was the page was updated.

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    • I was kinda wondering about that... Irene annoits Eve as the Doll, but was it in reconizing that she was already master or in creating the doll-MotC? I mean, Eve gets stuck in the ridiculousness that was MA... so what, does Ma end up getting to be the Master? 

      Or... do we just know nearly nothing about how the Masters work -.-

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    • From how it appears, the "Master" title is just that; a title. It would explain how, without difficulty, Held made Micheala his seccssor without difficulty. Same for Sickle and his plans to make Allen his seccsessor.

      Also, it's made fairly clear by Hansel that Court (the one who gave birth to Irregular) isn't Eve.

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    • So...been meaning to make this discussion. How are we going to handle Nemesis' contract?

      Because SCaP states Nemesis contracted to the Demon of Wrath. Fine, that makes sense. But how does that work when Seth, who is the Demon, is in Hellish Yard with Gumillia and seemingly no way of getting out?

      I know there have been several theories on this matter (the nature of Nemesis' contract is all kinds of sketchy), but, as a community, we've tried thus far to keep our info as free of speculation as possible, but I see no way to make this translate smoothly.

      So, in short, how do we handle this? Or should we just "ignore" this, until later information provides more details on the Hell Master duo and their situation?

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    • I think we should just keep the appropriate articles vague and list Nemesis as having made a contract with Wrath without specifying if it's Seth or not. As for the MotHellY thing, I think it's still up for discussion.

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    • That sounds reasonable to a degree, but then how do we deal with Seth? To our current knowledge, there is no other Demon of Wrath besides the good Dr Twiright and Adam, both of whom aren't in Grim the End, with the former in hell and the other searching for another vessel (likely the spoon).

      This isn't like "Adam is in Grim the End" or "Eve got out of Ma" (that sounds dirty out loud) where we know it happened but not the when, how or why. There is reasonable doubt that the entity isn't Seth, at least not directly. After all, Gumillia shows up in Gallerian's dream sequence and SCaP wearing the mask, which is Seth's true form. Kinda hard to posses someone when you're one of the wardens of Hellish Yard.

      In short, I'm treating this as a simular case to Re_birthday. There are ultimately too many contradictions and variables for an accurate conclusion with our current info.

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    • The ability for the demons to make clones for themselves when acting outside their vessel accounts for any distance. Given Seth is seemingly not attached to a vessel anymore, his power can't be sealed and he can have his clones head anywhere.

      The only major ambiguity is Nemesis' surviving a gunshot wound to the head, which the light novel's indicated would only get healed based on proximity to the vessel (ie, the demon inside it). Granted, there was a clear scar on Nemesis' head in Muzzle, so it definitely didn't fully heal on its own like you'd expect, even when Nemesis had Grim the End loaded in her revolver.

      As far as Nemesis' confirmed contract, Allen's narration states and everything he speaks about outside his knowledge in life is based on what Black Box fed to him. He knows Nemesis contracted to the Demon of Wrath but is unaware that the mask the familiar woman wears has a will, so he's seemingly unaware of Seth's true identity. We definitely won't be able to rely on him in regards to Hellish and Seth's actions.

      I can support us being ambiguous on this account; until we understand more about Seth's role in that timeframe, it would be a difficult jump to make with the info gap.

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    • Malice Twiright wrote:

      After all, Gumillia shows up in Gallerian's dream sequence and SCaP wearing the mask, which is Seth's true form. Kinda hard to posses someone when you're one of the wardens of Hellish Yard.

      Well, remember, the Demon's true body stays behind while it possesses a host. Seth's body (er, mask) may just be residing in the Hellish Yard being worn by MOTHellishY (whoever she is), while he possesses Nemesis.

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    • Servy, I remember you telling me that on chat, ya know XP

      Anyway, my main thought process is behind the numerous details that we do know Nemesis' contract that come off as very, very twist-worthy. Namely; the statement that she was "destined" to become a contractor, implying that, however we sliced it, Seth would somehow been organised into Nemesis via Ma. Somehow, I doubt that would of gone well.

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    • Where did it say she was "destined" for it, again? Depending on context, it could imply deeper machinations or it could just be an "eh it was inevitable really" statement. The word "destiny" is used a lot more loosely in Japanese materials I've seen.

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    • I'm referring to a statement made in her SCaP profile. Given how Ma treated her, it would make sense that this was planned.

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    • It doesn't say she was "destined", it says that it wasn't an accident, it was probably inevitable, and that her contract was for more than just herself.

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    • Made an avi for Behemo off that new Ichika art. This one provides a much clearer view of his face and is much cleaner.
      Behemo
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    • I just wish we'd get a doodle of Levia instead. All we got of her is her light sketchy concept art and half of a detailed shaded head

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    • Well, who knows. I'm still waiting for art of Sickle and Held's human forms XP

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    • Made my own version of the Behemo avi, if that's okay. It's a lot more visually appealing than the one made from his Pierrot novel appearance, although I'm not sure if it really captures his personality. I'm kinda on the fence about it.

      AviBehemo2
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    • Thanks. I needed it resized...

      Don't think the personality is a problem here. Luv this crossdressing god child.

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    • GreekTelepath wrote:
      Made my own version of the Behemo avi, if that's okay. It's a lot more visually appealing than the one made from his Pierrot novel appearance, although I'm not sure if it really captures his personality. I'm kinda on the fence about it.

      I agree. I don't feel Ichika's illustration is capturing what we've seen of Behemo's personality here and I don't see enough of a quality difference to consider it better than the novel illustration. I'm leaning against this suggestion.

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    • Behemo seems a bit sullen overall (or maybe the term is "chill") which is captured better in the other illustration. I don't really mind but let's not push our fanon of a flamboyantly fabulous Behemo which hasn't actually been shown in the text yet aside from one tiny line to Levia. 

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    • To be fair there, the avi we have for Allen dosen't exactly capture his personality perfectly either. And Kyle spends much his screentime either possesed, manipulated, freaking out or emotionally tortured, not smiling as his is doing.

      Also, this image actually clearly shows Behemo's face, rather than a vague blur in the background.

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    • Malice Twiright wrote:
      To be fair there, the avi we have for Allen dosen't exactly capture his personality perfectly either. And Kyle spends much his screentime either possesed, manipulated, freaking out or emotionally tortured, not smiling as his is doing.

      If you have issue with them, then post other suggestions in the DoE thread. Last time an Allen image was suggested with SCP in one of the previous threads, it didn't go over well but perhaps something else will be more agreeable for people. We're talking about Behemo here. ;P

      Also, this image actually clearly shows Behemo's face, rather than a vague blur in the background.
      AviBehemo2
      I'm not sure what you're talking about but maybe my definition of "vague blur" is different from yours.
      Behemoavatar

      Looking at GT's quick edit versus the novel illustration version, I don't think either are that blurry at 280px. They're both distinct images of the full head against their respective backgrounds.

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    • Servy, I was reffering to the characterization not having stopped avis in the past. Not that I don't hope that we'll eventually get a replacement for Allen (hopefully the manga will give us one.).

      Proably shouldn't of said "vague blur". I was more reffering to how clean the image is, compared to the image from the novel, it's considerebly cleaner and lacks the shading.

      It looks better as an avi, at least. Going off the inteiriors it looks a bit cheap.

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    • Malice Twiright wrote:
      Servy, I was reffering to the characterization not having stopped avis in the past.

      Going back to that SCP Allen avi suggestion, where opinions for/against a change cited that in specific for/part of the their reasoning. For at least some users, they're important factors and have impacted whether or not a change does happen. This isn't the topic for it though so I'll stop here.

      Proably shouldn't of said "vague blur". I was more reffering to how clean the image is, compared to the image from the novel, it's considerebly cleaner and lacks the shading.

      It looks better as an avi, at least. Going off the inteiriors it looks a bit cheap.

      So that's what you mean. I can see that. I don't find it signicant enough to necessitate a using that one when considering all other factors. To me, either seems acceptable but ultimately the novel illustration better portrays Behemo's character as we understand him up til this point.

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    • Incidentally, does anyone think Banica's Worldeater could be based on this? If so, could it be added to the trivia?

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    • So, is it safe to assume that Gumillia, Michaela and the other forest spirits are reincarnations of the dead kin? Because that's definitely what's implied.

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    • Sagittariusvenomania wrote:
      Incidentally, does anyone think Banica's Worldeater could be based on this? If so, could it be added to the trivia?

      Trivia to what? I've thought over it and we don't have an article for Worldeater. We're given too little info. We can't even confirm if it's anything like the actual dead soldiers being reanimated given the brief time we see it in the novel.

      Malice Twiright wrote:
      So, is it safe to assume that Gumillia, Michaela and the other forest spirits are reincarnations of the dead kin? Because that's definitely what's implied.

      This was brought up earlier. The story already makes it clear that the spirits are reincarnated god kin who've lost their memories due to Sickle's rules.

      Going to put the next info on a separate post.

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    • So we begin our weekly updates for the new short story. 6/2 this time, 6/8 next week.

      • Anywho important details to the story itself:
      • Behemo has come up to the Heavenly Yard (post last time we see him in Pierrot) and is surprised to see the cultivated land and everything.
      • He wants to be updated on current events going on in the ground world so he finds Black Box and heads over.
      • He doesn't have the key but looks inside with his special eyes (one of his unique powers) to see a human soul in there.
      • He presses a button to extend a microphone/speaker device to talk with this human, explaining he's a colleague of that guy he's calling "Sickle" and the boy eventually concedes that he's "Allen Avadonia".
      • Details-wise, we get a few more bits of lore. Behemo notes that Sickle had dumped most of their equipment from their research facility into the "Grave Yard" which made the field empty for which he's cultivated these golden fields.
      • This included the "Akashic Recorder" (not Akashic Record) that was previously in Behemo's possession. Since "that guy's" Black Box also employs one, he decides to "borrow" that.
      • The Grave Yard is apparently very difficult to get to (more than Evillious) and even more risky to get out of (it was apparently designed for most to get trapped); no need to risk it.
      • Black Box also makes the faint "Lu Li La...... Lu Li La" sound so Behemo knows it's operating properly.
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    • In order:

      • I hope the next part of the story includes Behemo and Allen sassing each other.
      • Ooh, more stuff about the Grave Yard. Makes sense Behemo would now. So the gods buried their old stuff so deep underground that it went to the Grave Yard?
      • Can it be put in the Grave Yard page's trivia that it seems to be inspired by the Hollow Earth theory?
      • So the Clockwork Lullaby is just... A hum of machinery. How odd. Always expected it to be something more. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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    • For the hollow earth theory, I didn't see anything in that infodump supporting this as trrivia. Did Behemo even say where the Graveyard was? Additionally, it being a space underneath Bolganio (if that's what it is) doesn't mean it's necessarily inspired by anything but mothy wanting to put something under Bolganio. We don't even have confirmation the Third Period is a planet in the traditional sense. 

      I find the idea that Sickle basically dumped all the technology of the Second Period out so he could grow stuff funny for some reason. The "research facility" term is interesting though. That's what Behemo called it? Is the entire Second Period a "research facility" or perhaps just the part Sickle's fields are growing in, if that isn't all of it?

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    • Octofan wrote:

      I find the idea that Sickle basically dumped all the technology of the Second Period out so he could grow stuff funny for some reason. The "research facility" term is interesting though. That's what Behemo called it? Is the entire Second Period a "research facility" or perhaps just the part Sickle's fields are growing in, if that isn't all of it?

      My impression from the reading was it just covers the area the research facility was in. The narrator denotes Behemo's impression (of surprise) that there are fields there. The narration is pointing out that the fields would be a vacant lot since the research facility equipment was discarded to the Grave Yard.

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    • I think the mention of a research facility is further implication that there's some sort of academe going on with the gods. We have Levia wearing a labcoat, the Demon of Envy making calculations and calling Sickle a professor, super-technology made by the gods, Seth being a scientist and Behemo's claims of copying his method (sort of like one scientist stealing from another).

      (As for the Hollow Earth theory trivia, I already thought of it a while back but didn't want to bring it for a while. I guess it's pretty tenuous if we don't assume the Third Period is a planet.)

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    • I doubt the lullaby is actually just the hum of machinery. Otherwise, how would Allen hear it when he was about to die?

      Also, Behemo stuff, yay. Hope we cut at some point back to Seth and Gumillia though.

      Yay also for more Allen stuff.

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    • I agree with Malice Twiright, and posted a longer version of this statement on Tumblr, but the 'just machinery' thing really doesn't work-not only is the lullaby used constantly for magic, but it's heavily associated with Hansel and Gretel...and while that would be quite a plot twist, I doubt that Hansel and Gretel are secretly robots.

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    • Ah, so I did have the jist of the story, I was afraid that I had it wrong. Also, I asked this when the story just came out, does the term グドネチア mean anything? I believe it's referring to a place.

      Also, I think that lu li la is the hum of machinery, but since the Black Box is a magical item and we've seen the melody being used in a lot of other ways, so there might be something more to it.

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    • GreekTelepath wrote:

      (As for the Hollow Earth theory trivia, I already thought of it a while back but didn't want to bring it for a while. I guess it's pretty tenuous if we don't assume the Third Period is a planet.)

      My issue is that we don't know where the Hellish Yard is situated and there isn't any info telling us if the Graveyard encompasses even that large a space to qualify for being within that theory's realm. If mothy was potentially inspired by it, we'd need more info before I'd feel alright with listing it.

      NinjaClockworker wrote:
      Ah, so I did have the jist of the story, I was afraid that I had it wrong. Also, I asked this when the story just came out, does the term グドネチア mean anything? I believe it's referring to a place.

      It's the name of a planet "Gudonechia". I believe it's the name of the Second Period but I'm still analyzing the specifics.

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    • Wasn't Seth supposed to have a role here? Or is that going to happen in the later portions?

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    • Malice Twiright wrote:
      Wasn't Seth supposed to have a role here? Or is that going to happen in the later portions?

      As said before, "Mask of Seth" was the password. When "Pere Noel" was the password for Gift, we got a short story covering a lot about Pere Noel, hence the possibility Seth could be involved. However, since this is only part 1, we can't be sure how much or little (if at all) he is actually involved in the story.

      Edit: And when was there debate about the Clockwork Lullaby? We see it being used as a spell song by Michaela, taught by Elluka. There's no doubt it's been portrayed outside of being the sound the gods' magical machinery makes.

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    • Maybe I was just hoping for a story foucasing on Gumillia and Seth in hell. Eh, I guess there's always the next databook.

      Also, the narration is clearly dodging the topic of Sickle's name. Prehaps that'll come up in some way during the story.

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    • Malice there's three other parts left, you don't think there's a slight possibility Seth will show up in one of the next parts?

      I kind of wondered if it being the sound of the god's magical machinery was just a result of the machinery running on magic, since it seems to be connected to magical energy. 

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    • Just to say ahead of time, be careful with tone and try staying away from the line to flaming.

      That's an interesting point though. We still don't know much about the lullaby or the lu li la sound in general so it's possible it's somehow at the core of magic. It still doesn't necessarily explain what Allen's hearing at the time of his death. Could be Sickle or someone else using a Second Period device that'll come into play later (assuming it's not Black Box).

      I've talked with Octo about it on chat before, but the mention of "planet" for the First Period is also inching us toward the possibility the gods are like supernatural aliens, which may tie into why they're so technologically and magically advanced.

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    • Prehaps Elluka "knowing" the luluby was just a leftover memory of Levia's like her thinking she and Held knew each other?

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    • Malice Twiright wrote:
      Prehaps Elluka "knowing" the luluby was just a leftover memory of Levia's like her thinking she and Held knew each other?

      It's possible. The implication in the light novel was that Elluka's reincarnation technique speciality and swap techique are abilities from the few memories she had as Levia. Clockwork Lullaby could be part of that too but that depends on whether it's a formal spell song or not in the Magic Kingdom's era. The real Elluka could've picked up the ability at the temple or from Kiril (given the name).

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    • So if the Clockwork Lullaby is the hum of machinery, that means its name is literal: as in, it's the song made by mechanisms (aka clockwork). This also sheds new light to Clockwork Lullaby 1, Wordplay and Full Moon Laboratory. I think mothy's teasing us with this info at this point.

      Gods as aliens makes a lot of sense. So once their home planet (the First Period) was destroyed, they traveled through space (which is often likened to an ocean in several forms of literature) to make more planets to inhabit.

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    • GreekTelepath wrote:

      Gods as aliens makes a lot of sense. So once their home planet (the First Period) was destroyed, they traveled through space (which is often likened to an ocean in early sci-fi literature) to make more planets to inhabit.

      That was our line of thinking. Ever since the use of "black sea" to divides these "places" that became the "worlds", it's been suspicious and we've only continued discussing the possibility as we learned more about the gods since then these past 4-5 months.

      So far the name "Clockwork Lullaby" itself hasn't been mentioned in correlation with the Lu Li La's of the SP devices so it's also possible that the lullaby is something completely separate or only remotely related. I mean we do have all these black boxes and Lens cropping up already. XP

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    • I swear, if Allen creates Earth when all this is done, I am going to punch something.

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote: snip.

      So does that mean we can't add it to the Clockwork Lullaby page's Mechanics that the gods' technology emitted the "Lu Li La" sound? How about a Curiosity point then?

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    • GreekTelepath wrote:

      Servant of Evillious wrote: snip.

      So does that mean we can't add it to the Clockwork Lullaby page's Mechanics that the gods' technology emitted the "Lu Li La" sound? How about a Curiosity point then?

      This has been part of trivia since SCP first mentioned it.

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    • Oh, okay. :0 Moving on, is it safe to assume that Gudonechia was the First Period? Or did Behemo come from some other fourth world?

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    • GreekTelepath wrote:
      Oh, okay. :0 Moving on, is it safe to assume that Gudonechia was the First Period? Or did Behemo come from some other fourth world?

      There hasn't been anything to contradict our original information that the First Period was where the gods were originally from before it was destroyed and they moved onto the Second Period. Based on the wording, Gudonechia matches the description so that seems to be the implication.

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    • One problem with the idea of aliens. How does another planet become Heavenly Yard? Likewise, why would a planet begin mergeing with whatever Hellish Yard is after being nucked? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure there's more than just "aliens!"

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    • Servy's point was that the gods were similar to our concept of aliens, not aliens themselves.

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    • Malice Twiright wrote:
      One problem with the idea of aliens. How does another planet become Heavenly Yard? Likewise, why would a planet begin mergeing with whatever Hellish Yard is after being nucked? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure there's more than just "aliens!"

      To quote myself:

      Servant of Evillious wrote:

      I've talked with Octo about it on chat before, but the mention of "planet" for the First Period is also inching us toward the possibility the gods are like supernatural aliens, which may tie into why they're so technologically and magically advanced.

      Bolded relevant details. Just because there're beings from other planets other than the "human world", doesn't mean that magic and the supernatural can't exist. Maybe that's just what gods are in this universe: divine beings from another planet that came and created new worlds to call home.

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    • Continuing this space tangent, the way the Yards work resembles how a planet is stuck between two larger planets of great but equal gravitational force (hence the pull). Once the Third Period was destroyed, the Hellish Yard gained power, sort of like how a planet gains mass and thus gravity. And since there was so much gravity, the Hellish Yard managed to pull both the Third Period and the souls of the dead into itself, causing a collision (a.k.a. "merge" of the two).

      Edit: Just another thing. The Hellish Yard contains gates to the Heavenly Yard, sort of like a teleporter/warp pad. The light of the Heavenly Yard is also burning hot for humans, making it only livable by the gods and souls - similar to how some planets are too hot for us to live on. Lastly, the space and time distortions that take place after the Hellish Yard merges with the ground remind me of the relativity of time (i.e. time works different depending on the gravity).

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    • GreekTelepath wrote:
      Snip.

      That's assuming though that the Hellish Yard is its own planet. For all we know, it's part of the ground world like the Grave Yard. I'd like it to be the First Period before it was destroyed (did they just use the underground caverns after? XD), but so far we've been told nothing about where the underworld is exactly.

      I can't imagine a collision cause space-time distortions or anything beyond massive destruction of both worlds' surfaces though.

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    • Sorry about that, my slight hatred towards a certain trope was manafisting.

      Anyway, contiueing off chat conversations, isn't it possible renments of Second Period culture (texts and what not) landed in Jakoku, leading to the series equivilent of Shintoism and what not? Because that's what I'm theoriseing. Given Japan's...history with Christianity, I doubt Levin will be the religon of Jakoku.

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    • Apparently, "Akashic" is a term coined in the late 1800s, derived from the Sanskrit word akasha, meaning "sky/space/luminous/aether". Kinda reminds you of the Heavenly Yard if you ask me. Can we put it in the trivia, if ever?

      Also, does anyone have anything on Gudonechia? Or did mothy just string some random syllables together again? Nothing's showing up when I Google it.

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    • The best I can think of is some horrid mutation of Genesis. Over than that, nothing.

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    • Regarding the "Divine Aliens Theory", I'd always imagined that deities like Sickle and Held would be part of a dying ancient alien race. It went further to their race colonizing a "certain planet in a star system" and, on the last million years, attempted uplifting one of its species; with the ultimate uplifting in Levianta (via the Sin "monolith") millennia after the alien race, it won't be until more than 4 million years until present day.

      Talk about some insane theory I made!

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    • That's insane and not how it went from how we know. I think we're taking the aliens thing a bit too literally.

      Also, given Gudonechida is reffered to as "non-exsistint", I have doubts that it's Hellish Yard.

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    • I wonder if Watching Us takes place on Gudonechia.

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    • Maybe Levia and Behemo are the twins from that song O_O

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    • Malice Twiright wrote:
      That's insane and not how it went from how we know. I think we're taking the aliens thing a bit too literally.

      Also, given Gudonechida is reffered to as "non-exsistint", I have doubts that it's Hellish Yard.

      I guess you're right Malice; we might have went too far into this theory that may or may not be true. Then again, it doesn't hurt to think away of things like divine aliens.

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    • Drafted an article for the Akashic recorder in my Sandbox, if that's okay. I think we have enough information to give it its own page, to be honest.

      Edit: Not to derail the discussion, but is it possible to use this as Julia Abelard's Location image? I noticed the one we currently have is a bit low-res.

      AviJulia
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    • The recorder will have an article. There's enough info for it.

      I honestly can't see much of a difference between either image at the size of those Location boxes tbh. Both images are acceptable imo, though the one you're suggesting has that ridiculously pale skin (was Ichika going for a retro style shift there?).

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    • Eh, my thoughts is that Ichika though it made her look EEEEVVVVVIIIIILLLLLL!!!

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote: The recorder will have an article. There's enough info for it.

      I honestly can't see much of a difference between either image at the size of those Location boxes tbh. Both images are acceptable imo, though the one you're suggesting has that ridiculously pale skin (was Ichika going for a retro style shift there?).

      My main concern is that the current one's colors are way too muted - it just looks like a flurry of brown and red. Also, this new one includes the red cat, so I think it's more fitting.

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    • Well good news is the next part to the email story confirms a few old theories:

      • Behemo has replaced Allen in the box; he switches his eyes to night vision to see and sets the box's akashic recorder to the highest setting before putting a piece to his head.
      • After the quick history lesson, Behemo more or less knows everything that's gone on with his human creations and has learned a number of "suprising" facts.
      • Behemo thought he saw Allen somewhere before and now he realizes it was because he's him, or rather another deterioating copy of him. To be more specific, he's a reincarnated body of him.
      • Project Ma was set up so the humans could create their own copies of them after they were trapped in Sin. H&G were the one known pair to live but there was another set. Marina Lucif's children were kept secret by the father and led to the family who founded the Kingdom of Lucifenia (the D'Autriche family). And then Allen and Riliane were born.
      • The narration asserts that now there are two sets who hold the "keys" and that Behemo believes Sickle would be using Allen as a means to direct the world's end.
      • There were two problems of course with this analysis. One, Sickle actually doing something that would break his own rules. Two, him leaving Riliane alone when she would also be one of the "keys". He supposes it was maybe also a countermeasure in case him or Levia do something but he admits he doesn't know.
      • Behemo's also up-to-date on what's gone on with his sister with the whole Ma thing.
      • Behemo's also aware that (while Seth's already gone to hell), some of his pieces carrying on his will are still there on the ground, including the one with his sister (Irina). The god wants to eliminate as much of Seth's influence as possible.
      • Given that humans are his handiwork, he can't stand the mask man's low quality copies intermingling with them, but "unforunately", this has already happened. The Freesis family are descendants from ghoul children and humans so for the god to destroy them would be to destroy his own work (the irony of feelings changing after being asleep for centuries).
      • There are still some ghoul children in the world. They seem to have currently halted their function but there's always the chance they could just start up again (I take this to refer to them developing symptoms of HER Syndrome).
      • Behemo wants to make contact with the ground (a function Black Box has that was locked to Allen). There are two conditions. One, there has to be a device in existence that can receive the box's messages. Two, it can't be corrupted. The location Behemo wants to send it to fulfills both requirements. And so he sents it to the facility underneath Castle of Hedgehog.

      Bad news is this is mostly just confirming old theories but it's nice to finally have a lot of this confirmed. The major new info about an underground facility at Castle Hedgehog is definitely quite the cliffhanger point to stop at.

      I wonder if Levianta's borders included Marlon and they had facilities there before the kingdom's collapse. The split and civil conflict between Marlon and Lioness would have some elaboration if they're what was left of the kingdom that didn't get hit by the catastrophe.

      There's also the fact he's trying to make contact with the ground world and expects someone to get his message. This is going in a neat direction.

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    • So basically, given Keel is a Kiyoteru, he's probably descended from Pale.

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      • Regarding the Freesises, is this an implication that Kiril and Pale were't the only ghoul children made using Seth's own DNA? That's the impression I'm getting from the statement.
      • If Marlon ends up being confirmed as one of the Magic Kingdom Levianta's territories, can we add it to the Levianta page along with Elphegort?
      • So Marina's children were also successful results of Project 'Ma'? That explains why Riliane and Allen were intended reincarnations of H & G.
      • Behemo regards Irina as his sister? That's odd, but makes sense given Elluka Chirclatia's memories.
      • If Allen is a deteriorating copy/reincarnation of Behemo, does that mean L & B are represented by the Kagamines? Since reincarnations tend to look the same, save for exceptions (read: Ney).
      • Is it possible that Arte and Pollo were also part of the line originating from Marina Lucif's children, since they were from Beelzenia? Also, I wonder if Welvya is in the Marlon part of Levianta, since Mikina is possibly descended from Milky.
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    • Why can't Pale be Keel's ancestor? He lived long enough to have a pretty big and special tomb.

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      • I have to agree with the anon, Seth would have no reason to use his own DNA after deciding that it was causing too much trouble for the Ghoul Children to look like him. Added to that, Pale is known to have a sexual history with at least two women.
      • I don't think Behemo is referring to Irina--or at least, if he is, he'd only call her his sister because she's Ma at this point, who has Levia as one of her components. 
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    • -So, the Lucif theory is confirmed. Yay.

      -Nice to get that detail on the Freecis. My theory is getting support.

      -I'm interested on where this is going.

      Part of me is slightly miffed at all these reveals in a way. Maybe I just want to learn info connecting to the ongoing plot. Eh, we'll have to see where it goes.

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    • Question, how is Allen a "deteriorating copy"/reincarnated body of Behemo? Because, from what I get, he and Riliane are just descendants of the twins Marina had.

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    • GreekTelepath wrote: Snip

      In order:

      • As others said, there's nothing indicative of that. It could be either Pale or Kiril.
      • Yes, that would be the natural next step if we were to confirm Marlon was part of Levianta's territory for any significant period. Depends on what the reasoning behind this facility is.
      • Yeah, that OSS Act 2 plot thread's finally bearing fruit.
      • It's not that Behemo considers Irina his sister, he's talking about people carrying on his will "including the one with his sister (Irina)". Sorry for not being clear, but I put Irina in parenthese for the phrase, not for the word "sister". He's talking in broad strokes about Seth's ghoul children that remain on the ground.
      • That was the impression I got. Behemo outright thinks over that he thought Allen looked familiar before realizing "He's----me" and the narration does state that Allen's specifically a "reincarnated body" of Behemo before going on to explain the twin gods copy thing.
      • We're not told about Arte and Pollo's lineage so we may never know. Would be odd though since the narration indicates the D'Autriche family is descendant from Marina's kids, making Arte and Pollo distant relatives at best to be common folk in Beelzenia's Grabia.
      Malice Twiright wrote:
      Question, how is Allen a "deteriorating copy"/reincarnated body of Behemo? Because, from what I get, he and Riliane are just descendants of the twins Marina had.

      H&G would've reincarnated as them had it not been for fate being messed up. What was left were the reincarnated bodies of the twins, hence their resemblance to H&G. Seems to be a convenient coincidence, assuming not all H&G reincarnations trace their lineage back to Marina's twins.

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    • Well, this just creates new questions. Evillious everyone >>

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    • In regards to the twin gods, are we all on the same page about the full implications?

      Based on Behemo's words, Allen looks identical to him and the narration tells us that H&G/A&R are reincarnated bodies of the twin gods. Marina's kids were another set of twin god copies like H&G.

      So the implications would be Levia and Behemo are the original Rin and Len that both human twin god copies take their appearance from, and that Allen and Riliane (as intended H&G reincarnations) also end up having. Blond with blue eyes.

      Thoughts?

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    • Wondering how the magic kingdom people could extract the DNA of the twin gods. Well it can be answered with 'magic', I guess...

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    • Emuei wrote:
      [Snip] Well it can be answered with 'magic', I guess...

      The seeds of god still aren't explained and a lot of theories I've seen revolve around that question, believing that their function is similar to artificial insemination. Considering what else gods and their technology do, we might get a more detailed explanation in the future.

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    • So Seth litterally imprenated his peusdo daughter (Meta) with Levia and Behemo's sperm?! Ew...

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    • Well Levia's female so that would be one issue those theories have. There's also no guarantee seeds of god or whatever causes the aritifical twin gods to appear like the originals to be DNA-based so there's a lot of leeway there.

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    • Guess so.

      So, from what I'm getting at, the reason why Ney is a Neru is because her body wasn't designed to be a vessel?

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    • does that mine Levia and Behemo are confirmed Rin and Len?

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    • Pretty much. Which provides support for several theories.

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    • Getting back on topic, I think it's safe to say that Levia and Behemo are the original Rin and Len characters since the narrative actually says so. They got blonde hair and blue eyes, then. 0 0/

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    • yes, are we fixing the info boxes?

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    • I'll get on board with Levia and Behemo as the originals. It's always been those two as Rin and Len in my head anyways. =u=

      I think it fits the pictures we've seen of them too- I always look at uncoloured twin god pictures as having said blonde hair and blue eyes.

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    • Looks like we've got a general aggrement.

      Added them, if there's any question.

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    • UnitedStateofPikachulious wrote:
      Snip.

      Not sure if I necessarily agree with that reasoning but alright.

      I'll give a pass on us moving forward with this information about the twin gods in mind.

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    • So if Riliane and Allen are also "keys", why is Allen impervious to demonic possession while Riliane isn't?

      Also, I'd just like to clarify something about Marina's children: are their souls also fused with fragments of Levia and Behemo? Or are their bodies just intended containers for L & B, just like Hansel and Gretel are? Because it makes sense that Hansel and Gretel would reincarnate in the bodies of Marina's descendants, since, being fused with L & B, those bodies are intended containers for them as well.

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    • if so that would explain all the Lens at the end, there are four Len, Hänsel, Alexiel, Punishment and Irregular, I wonder if Punishment and Irregular could be Cain/Abel and Lucif's son

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    • Nope, there's no explanation. Also, no, Marina's kids aren't fused to anything and Riliane and Allen just have Levia and Behemo's appearance.

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    • GreekTelepath wrote:
      So if Riliane and Allen are also "keys", why is Allen impervious to demonic possession while Riliane isn't?

      Keep in mind, Sickle considers Allen "irregular" where Held and Behemo clearly couldn't tell at first glance. The narration mentions there being two sets of "keys" in existence now as far as Behemo can tell but doesn't clarify what makes them these keys. What makes Allen special may be something else entirely, which Behemo likely wouldn't be able to understand based on the information of the box alone.

      GreekTelepath wrote:

      Also, I'd just like to clarify something about Marina's children: are their souls also fused with fragments of Levia and Behemo? Or are their bodies just intended containers for L & B, just like Hansel and Gretel are? Because it makes sense that Hansel and Gretel would reincarnate in the bodies of Marina's descendants, since, being fused with L & B, those bodies are intended containers for them as well.

      No mention in any text that Marina's kids also fused with fragments of Levia-Behemo so far. We know of only the two fragments (lights) that descend into the forest after the dragon falls apart. Allen mentions in SCP that H&G are the only ones going through reincarnation so if there're other souls reincarnating, it has to be outside the knowledge of himself and Black Box.

      So far, the story's just confirming Allen's lineage traces back to Marina's kids, a set of twin god copies that Behemo wasn't aware were successfully born and alive while sealed in Sin.

      Alexiel Lucifen wrote:
      if so that would explain all the Lens at the end, there are four Len, Hänsel, Alexiel, Punishment and Irregular, I wonder if Punishment and Irregular could be Cain/Abel and Lucif's son

      There would need to be an explanation for their souls remaining in the ground world. Either way, I am curious what the implication is for Cain and Abel. Were both male like the Biblical siblings or was one a female?

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    • Also, Irregular and Punishment being that wouldn't explain why they have Allen's clothes.

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    • Does it say Punishment has Allen's clothes in the text? All we know from the illustration is that he has a high collar.

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    • From the newest update what really got me was the line 

      "He’s probably trying to control the world’s end again.

      Like when he used Behemo and Levia before."

      Like what does it mean by that? 

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    • PrincessAcedia wrote:
      Snip.

      Based on the wording, I took it to refer to when he had Levia and Behemo transformed into a dragon to guide humanity as "temporary gods" for a while. That was an action which would already influence the direction the world headed and Behemo's deducing that Sickle would be trying to use Allen for something similar.

      23.122.217.39 wrote:
      Does it say Punishment has Allen's clothes in the text? All we know from the illustration is that he has a high collar.

      Neither the text nor illustration clearly define what clothes Irregular/Punishment wear during the SCP story. All we can confirm about Punishment's attire is what you pointed out and that he/it has a similar ponytail.

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    • Well, Irregular is wearing Allen's clothes in the Capriccio Farce PV, so that's significant.

      Sickle's a dick, isn't he?

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    • So Project Ma's goal was to recreate Levia and Behemo's original humanoid forms? Also, is Behemo saying that Marina's children are also copies of the twin gods in terms of appearance?

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    • That seems to be it. I'd agree to that project as well if I could stop being a dragon. Probably smell.

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    • Well the last part of the story came out and it's also pretty straight forward

      • Willus came home to the underground facility of Castle Hedgehog. He's been born and raised there, though otherwise had a normal life. The Zorach family's duty has been guarding a Leviantan relic for 500 years (600s-500=100s).
      • Grandpa's the head of the family but when he kicks the bucket, Willus will be the family head and be forced to live there underground so he's hoping Grandpa stays alive as long as possible. Grandpa suddenly mentions their family duty being over though as a "divine revelation" has been given.
      • Grandpa tells Willus to terminate Freezis (Freesis); Freezis is a cooling (freezing) system that has kept five coffins with babies in them frozen, though they can be awakened at any time. 100 years ago, an earthquake caused one to awaken and escape to the ground world, becoming Keel Freezis (Freesis).
      • Willus is completely okay with this because, although grandpa's "divine revelation" may be an old man's hallucination, it means he doesn't have to be the family head anymore and he shuts down the Freezis machine, shriveling up the frozen bodies inside.
      • They leave the facility for good (going to be left to sink into the ground and be burned by the lava) and Grandpa goes off while Willus questions if there really is a god out there.
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    • WAAHHH???!!!

      ...What was the point of that?! That just creates more questions! How did Keel get out if he was a baby!? Who adopted him!? Where did those stupid babies come from, and why is he a Kiyoteru!? GYAH!!

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    • To give a more mature response, I wonder if the Lord Hedgehog was a Zorach, given how long they've been guarding it?

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    • Maybe.

      Is "escaped" the right word to use? Because I'm pretty sure he couldn't do that if he was a baby. And how is his surname based on the thing he spawned from? And who raised him, for that matter?

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    • Clearly whoever raised him/Keel himself took the name from the machine. Maybe whoever was guarding the kids at that time didn't have the heart to kill him, raised him, and when he was old enough Keel escaped from the facility.

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    • Then where did he live? And how did he meet Kyle and Mikina if he had nothing to even legally prove he existed?

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    • One doesn't have to legally exist in Middle Age period I think.

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    • SO we have four more ghoul Children(Kiyoteru's) huh

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    • 1. Evillious is a tad more advanced politically than the Middle Ages.

      2. This is unconfirmed. We don't even know where these kids came from or who made them, just that Keel was among them.

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    • We already know that Keel had to pull himself up from his bootstraps, and we already know he was much lower status than Mikina or Kyle. Kyle sought him out specifically because he'd gained a reputation for being able to do anything for you if you paid him. (Well mostly info-gathering wise.)

      Evillious in 500 may be more advanced than the Medeival ages, but it certainly was not to the point of our era where someone has to have legal documentation since birth. Keel could have just been one of the dirt poor who probably did not have anything to prove they existed beforehand. He got legal documentation later as he made a name for himself.

      2. The fact that Behemo ordered the Zorachs to kill them when he previously stated he had no wish to hurt any of his own creations, while wanting to limit the influence of Seth's creations in Bolganio, makes it pretty clear to me that they are Ghoul Children.

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard
      Misstress of the heavenly yard removed this reply because:
      fff
      06:42, June 15, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Um...there's no way that could work. Keel is the only one who got out. No way of explaining the Miku or Rin either.

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    • Wait so it justs end with the babies burning in lava? Jesus christ mothy

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    • RIP; Babies.

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    • He's getting more brutal by the story, this even tops the Held burying his children

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    • To be fair, none of those babies are conchious. They're all frozen.

      Hoping still Tailor is all out horror.

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      • Wait, why is there even lava underground Castle Hedgehog? Is it that deep underground?
      • So Keel's "birthday" is the day he got out of the Freezis machine, then?
      • Given all this information, is it safe to assume that Keel himself is a ghoul child, and that there was no Freesis family member existing before him?
      • Will the Freezis machine get its own page?
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    • 1. Who knows.

      2. Our the day he escaped. He likely wouldn't know his "real" birthday.

      3. Most definitely.

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    • GreekTelepath wrote:
      *Wait, why is there even lava underground Castle Hedgehog? Is it that deep underground?
      • So Keel's "birthday" is the day he got out of the Freezis machine, then?
      • Given all this information, is it safe to assume that Keel himself is a ghoul child, and that there was no Freesis family member existing before him?

      This facility is located in the freezing twelve floories/stories of the underground. I can't say yet the specifics, but I got the impression the facility had some sort of mechanism to have it collapse and sink until it reached lava.

      Octo provides the reasoning, but yes. Behemo intended to eliminate Seth's influence on the ground world. Killing the Freezis family would mean killing humans mixed with ghoul children. Terminating the Freezis device implictly keeps further ghoul children from mixing with humans. So yes, sounds like Keel is a ghoul child.

      To quote Behemo: (――Seems some ghoul children have remained in the world still)

      And the narration: They seemed to have suspended that function for the time being but there was still the possibility they would start moving if given some impetus.

      This makes it pretty clear this was what was being referenced when Behemo sent his message to the Zorachs.

      Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      Wait so it justs end with the babies burning in lava? Jesus christ mothy

      Did you miss the part where I said they terminated the machine and they shriveled up? The babies were already killed and shriveled into "what looked like small wheat grains".

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    • Huh. So Keel is another clone of Seth, basically.

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    • Does that mean that Keel is also a HER? He didn't seem to show any symptoms, though... >_>


      And does that also mean that "Freesis" should be changed to "Freezis"? 

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    • I though it meant shaking/defrosting my english is flawed

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    • Is it also possible to translate the device's name as "Fridgis"? That way there's no distinction between the otherwise identical sounds of the "ri" and "ji" characters.

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    • Keel Fridgis?

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    • If we change, I'm going to Freezis. Because Fridgis sounds stupid.

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    • Once you sound out the romanization of Freesis, it actually sounds like it could be Fridgis.

      But like the Kachess-Karchess incident, I think we should change it but keep it close to the original. I say we make it Freezis.

      Another thing: Is a child of a Ghoul Child and Human still a human, or a ghoul child? Do we put both, like "ghoul child-human hybrid"? Cause we've got at least 3 cases of ghoul child-human interbreeding.

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    • I think we should go with Freezis as well because like Malice said Fridgis just sounds stupid and Freezis at least to me has a better ring to it. If it really gets down to it though we could probably ask mothy for a translation I guess.

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    • I agree with PrincessAcedia. It's best that one of us should ask Mothy for his intended translation of the Freesis/Freezis/Fridgis/Whatever-Makes-Sense.

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    • Found "fridge" (フリッジ/Furijji). a "ji" is used but the spelling is otherwise completely different. The "dge" is created with a double jj sound extending it.

      With that in mind, I'd rather go with the closer "Freezis".

      Scarletta Agni wrote:

      Another thing: Is a child of a Ghoul Child and Human still a human, or a ghoul child? Do we put both, like "ghoul child-human hybrid"? Cause we've got at least 3 cases of ghoul child-human interbreeding.

      Since a ghoul child is literally defined as an artificial human being, I'd say we stick to "human" for Keel's descendants. So far, only Behemo's splitting hairs over Seth's "low quality copies" and based on the databook, races are applied regardless.

      The bigger issue is Keel's birthday. It's always been an odd coincidence that Keel and Mikina share the exact same birthday (Yukina too, but different birth year). Now that we know more about his origins, it's possible he faked his age like Kyle.

      The story actually remains explicitly vague on why/how Keel slipped out of the underground and into the ground world exactly. Whether he knew about his peculiar origins or not, I can imagine him just taking his beloved's birthday as his too to better integrate with his new family. Just a theory for the in-universe reason.

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    • Yeah, so it sounded if we go with "dge" it'd be Freedjis.

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    • 67.66.95.187 wrote:
      Yeah, so it sounded if we go with "dge" it'd be Freedjis.

      If it was intended to be directly taken after "fridge" it'd be something like フリッジス instead of フリージス. If it was "Freedgis", my guess would be フリーッジス.

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    • My thought is to wait for the databook and possible expansion then. Ditto for Keel being a HER, which has never been indicated before.

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    • I think Freezes sounds reasonable though aethestically not as appealing.

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      • Just read about last week's new info*

      All these Kagamines made me come up with a theory .

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    • Looking into it, the "ri" sound of Keel's surname is actually extended, so there should probably be a distinction. My vote goes to Freezis if it's indeed closer to the characters.

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    • So PHP sent an email apologizing for misinforming readers that part 3 was the last part of the email story. We're getting one more to finish up the tale next week, same time. If you weren't satisfied with ending where it has, we'll see where the last part takes us.

      Personally, the only tidbits I'd really want from this story at this point would be some closure on how Allen is going to fail to get to Champ-Elysees and where Behemo goes from there.

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    • I side with "Freezis". It's the easiest for fans to get accustomed to (one letter away and all), fits with the idea of it being taken from a freezing unit, and doesn't make it overtly obvious for those who haven't seen the reveal yet.

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    • Using a "z" also makes sense to me as "ji" is how Japanese phonetics pronounce "zi". Like in Ziz Tiama ("jizu tiama")

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    • Does this mean every single Kiyoteru character (minus Seth himself) is a ghoul child cloned from Seth? It doesn't take very many leaps of logic to conclude that like Kiril and Pale, Keel is directly based from Seth unlike Meta and Irina.

      I feel like that should be a bit of trivia, but I don't know where exactly that would go. Maybe Seth's page - something noting that every other Kiyoteru character in the series is based off of him?

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    • That seems to be the implication yes.

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    • 24.61.194.71 wrote:
      Does this mean every single Kiyoteru character (minus Seth himself) is a ghoul child cloned from Seth? It doesn't take very many leaps of logic to conclude that like Kiril and Pale, Keel is directly based from Seth unlike Meta and Irina.

      I feel like that should be a bit of trivia, but I don't know where exactly that would go. Maybe Seth's page - something noting that every other Kiyoteru character in the series is based off of him?

      Behemo's conversation definitely directly implies Keel is a pure ghoul child. It's not clear if you can still be a ghoul child if you descend from two (ghoul parents...?). The same with the others Behemo had killed off before they could awaken and potentially mix with the human gene pool.

      What strikes me is that the Zorachs have been guarding this facility for 500 years. Was that when the babies were frozen? If so, why in the (roughly) EC 060s-130s period? If this was instead Seth stockpiling clones way back when before dropping the concept in favor of the Meta method, why were they frozen in Marlon and what happened after over a hundred years that put the Zorachs in charge of tombkeeping the place?

      Likewise, it's not clear whether Keel was an actual HER or not. He's mentioned to have rough origins and be rather ruthless before becoming a loving husband, father, friend, and ally, but we haven't seen much in his behavior betraying that image. Even HERs like Irina who show legitimate (if twisted) love and Seth who doesn't have much purpose both consistently demonstrate HER symptoms. It's a curious situation.

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    • I think I've given a large enough wait time and it looks like the majority favor "Freezis". I'll give a pass to changing all instances of the name Freesis to that.

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    • Alright, to finish off our Demon of Wrath updates, I found one aspect that hasn't gone through discussion and needs to be dealt with.

      SCP has Allen telling us all the info he learned from Black Box, including the information that Nemesis was contracted to the Demon of Wrath. Pierrot tells us that Seth is the Demon of Wrath and the mask with a will (so we see him among the other demons on the cover, worn by the Master of the Hellish Yard).

      Pierrot also shows Seth being blown out of the vessel of sin, as well as demonstrating the demons have some dimensional magic that let's them to see or go between their vessel's "world" and peoples' minds/mental worlds at least. We've likewise been shown the demons can return to their original vessel even if sealed in another in Twiright Prank.

      Similarly, we've been given the revelation of there actually being six demons (+ Eve) for the vessels of sin and that, when the Original Sin was split, the demons themselves were reincarnated god kin.

      With all this in mind (feel free to add anything relevant I've missed), are we going to be linking the Demon of Wrath mentions in relation to Nemesis to Seth (and thereby including that information in his article) or not? If not, we'll need to discuss what to do about that mention.

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    • I think it's a lot simpler to link Nemesis' demon to Seth, include the info, and just not make any assertions about how he was able to make the contract with her (although it seems like he could maybe exert influence from the Hellish Yard or else Gumillia has by then learned some tricks as Master of the Hellish Yard.) By Tailor we'll likely see what power Seth can still exert over his vessel and can be more specific from there.

      I wouldn't want us making unfounded assertions like Nemesis contracting with a copy of the Demon or something like that when our sources have already stated she contracted with Wrath. We'll just not say how precisely they both did it.

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    • Yeah. Though, really, this a case where a plot twist could easily screw us over. For all we know, it could turn out someone else took over Seth's job >>

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    • could it be like the mirrors, where Seth can jump between the mask and the key, or even from mask to mask?

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    • Alexiel Lucifen wrote:
      could it be like the mirrors, where Seth can jump between the mask and the key, or even from mask to mask?

      He is the mask. It's his true form. No different from the goat chimera thing being the true form of the Demon of Lust.

      Demons have been shown to be able to return to their original vessel even when sealed in another vessel (Banica in TP), and they have dimensional portal powers as shown in Pierrot to have some dimension to reside in within their vessel and look into the outside world (or even travel from the outside world into inner psychological worlds).

      The mirrors function in that its one mirror (one vessel) that was split into four smaller hand mirrors (fragments of one vessel) which allowed the demon to travel between them.

      Let's try to stay on the actual topic though.

      Malice Twiright wrote:
      Yeah. Though, really, this a case where a plot twist could easily screw us over. For all we know, it could turn out someone else took over Seth's job >>

      For [x] to take over Seth's job, [x] would have to either (a) borrow Seth's power as a demon and be forging Nemesis' contract on his behalf (thereby it still being Seth making a contract with Nemesis) or (b) be a demon with Seth's Demon of Wrath powers and abilities, which only Seth should have since the Original Sin was split into seven fragments and no other demons have been introduced to have taken.

      If this was like Eve and the Director Doll, where two characters who share a name (MotC) has different reasons for said having said name (Eve, Irina's Court; Director Doll, taking up name from Gallerian) and said name is used by a variety of unrelated characters already, I don't think there'd be debate about ambiguity. Compounded by the circumstantial issue of the timeline for Eve's separation from Ma, I can understand why we're treating them separately.

      What we're told though is Demon of Wrath contracts with Nemesis, mask with a will is connected to Nemesis, Seth is Demon of Wrath and mask with a will. There's no Ma factor to give us reason to assume a new demon has somehow cropped up or invalidated the aforementioned at this juncture.

      Not like mothy hasn't done twists like you're saying (namely Mikulia and Elluka, even Margarita and Platonic to an extent), but that didn't cause concern then either, for understable reasons.

      If we were to not go with something like what Octo suggested however, we'll need an alternative on what to link the Demon of Wrath to.

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    • I'm on board with Octo's suggestion.

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    • I agree with Octo's suggestion too.

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    • Looks like this is the consensus. We'll see what mothy pulls here...

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    • Hopping on board to agree with Okuto's suggestion here.

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    • I'll give that suggestion a pass then.

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    • And so we have the last part of the email story. Thankfully, still pretty straightforward here:

      • Behemo's accomplished his goal. The narration shares with us that the Zorach's 500 year duty began when Lamia Asayev married into the family.
      • Humanity has evolved at twice the rate of Behemo's expectations, making it not totally unbelievable that the humans could create a civilization close to the Second Period's. He also seems to still be a little bitter that "he" hasn't changed his decision after all these years.
      • While they may seem eternal by human standards, "high-level beings" from the First Period apparently can eventually got kaput. Behemo has decided to spend the time until then observing.
      • Behemo exits Black Box to see Held and Allen there. Allen was intercepted on his way to Champ-Elysees and Held's not happy. Behemo talks with his former teacher over his actions.
      • Behemo talks to Allen about what happened with Held and tells him that he'll probably achieve his "true desire" someday, telling him "she" will incarnate in the world maybe 1-200 years from then, probably far east of Evillious.
      • Allen naturally doesn't get what he's talking about and Behemo says he'll explain it to him when the time comes. He then starts heading off and Held tries to stop him. Behemo claims he just wants to explore his old home after his long sleep.
      • While the god says he won't "do anything superfluous/unnecessary" before muttering under his breath "for a little while" so Held can't hear.
      • The narration closes the story off that Allen never would've imagined at the time that he'd reincarnate onto the ground as a human again.
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    • "She"...? Hmm...

      Aseyev? Hmm...

      "for a little while"? Hmm...

      Like that little line there that helps tie this into Tailor. Yay.

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    • wait, so Held was Behemo's former teacher?!

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    • 180.246.23.20 wrote:
      wait, so Held was Behemo's former teacher?!

      Yes. He even addresses him as "Held-sensei", which can range in translation from "Mr." (teacher) to "Master" to "Dr." (I lean on the latter with the magical scientist theme).

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    • Held confirmed for everyone's dad.

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    • Glad to see the Asayevs popping back up again. Behemo seems to be implying Riliane will reincarnate, that's also interesting.

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    • Maybe it's Chartette. I mean it's confirmed that Allen and RIliane never saw eachother again for atleast 500 years

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    • OR Riliane might have reincarnated only to die before Allen meeting her. Who knows.

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    • The story is framed for him to be referring to Riliane, unless Allen's single-minded desire to reunite with her again decided to suddenly detour when we weren't looking.

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    • If my theory is true, Riliane and Allen are able to reincarnate in a given time - as they're decendants of the unknown children, in turn copies of Levia and Behemo like Gretel and Hansel (all respectively). We may not know who they were prior to the year 485, but Riliane had reincarnated in the 590s to become "Rin Chan", only to die sometime after the events of the Fifth Pierrot and reincarnate again as Rin Miroku; Allen, meanwhile, became "Len" (in my opinion, as "Ren") in Jakoku - perhaps to reunite with "Riliane". As what Sloth Sinner suggested, Rin was murdered by "Len/Ren's" friend, Kayo Sudou; perhaps, in response to that henious crime (along with her other murders on the Miroku family), he (ironically) executed his friend with Grim the End.

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    • Riliane did not reincarnate as "Rin Chan"; Rin Chan only looked like Riliane because her face was changed with the Venom Sword. 

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    • Problem with Riliane being Rin. Allen never even implies such an occurence in SCaP. You think he would. Never mind that there's logistic implications in there too. After all, Hansel and Gretel didn't reincarnate because them replicas. They reincarnated because of the Levia-Behemo fragments inside of them.

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    • Sorry about the misunderstandment. In generall, I just thought that there's some reincarnation possibility of Riliane becoming Rin Miroku. When I heard of the recent email story, this immediately made me think that this will be why Len/Ren appeared at Jakoku in the early 9th Century, along with spiritual connection with Rin Chan. The connection with the reincarnation process similar to H&G (as in due to being L&B copies) came to mind just today.

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    • Saying "He never implied _____ when you think he would" isn't good reasoning imo. His narration drops story details inconsistently without much (if any) explanation. "You'd think" he'd explain Ma given how many times she's referenced, but nope.

      Same here. Allen literally only tells us that he incarnated on the ground and lived in Jakoku as a human again for a time. Nothing else. No mention if he got mind wiped per Third Period's rules, that he apparently killed Kayo with Grim the End, and especially not the why and how he ended up accomplishing this reincarnation.

      It's definitely not too hard to swallow with everything else SCP expects you to (read SCP without having read any of the other light novels).

      Riliane being Rin's logistic issue does seem to be a problem. If Riliane's reincarnating normally, why not Allen? The easiest answer would be Sickle somehow got him out of a reincarnation cycle or his status as Irregular makes him not reincarnate normally. On the other end, H&G are the only two who have apparently been continually reincarnating. If Behemo is telling the truth, then there might be other, unknown circumstances.

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    • Yeah, I agree that there are some issues with assuming anything about who "she" is and the circunstances of Allen's reincarnation. I was just stating a possibility.

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    • There are many ladies in Allen's life, Germaine, Chartette, Michaela, Gretel, Yukina(although she was more in his death)

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    • Frankly this seems too...convenient a scenario.

      Is it possible, perhaps, that Ma interfered in some way and Riliane didn't reincarnate, ala Ney?

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    • This discussion goes on and on with assumptions and it's leading us nowhere. My guess is we should wait for news on this matter and leave this part vague in the articles, as we always do with these kinds of things. 

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    • Sloth Sinner wrote:
      Snip. 

      Better idea Sloth. We must wait until all confirmations are set in stone.

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    • I said "she" because that was the pronoun used that I could confirm. This talking point has otherwise been taken out of context so let me expand on the info:

      The whole conversation spawns because Allen fails to meet with his "objective" of going to see this person at the gardens as he intended. Behemo relates he'll get his opportunity to fulfill this "true wish" of his soon, saying "she who you periodically observe/look after" will reincarnate.

      With that in mind, there's only one female Allen has been dead-set on properly reuniting with after death but can't for one reason or another, despite observing her since death and looking out for her on several occasions.

      Behemo lying seems unlikely imo. His intention is to mess with the ground world through Allen. There's no reason to arbitrarily set an extended timeframe to meet that end, especially when he gets the idea to make use of the "situation" on the spot. I don't see anything that could prevent a Ney-esque incident happening however, so Rin Miroku and Riliane's relationship, if any, should be left vague regardless.

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    • I think that, if we want to point out the Rilaine-Rin connection, we should say that Rin is an intended incarnation of Riliane.

      I dont think that statement contradicts anything.

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    • The wording would imply that Riliane was intended to be Rin's reincarnation but was stopped ala the Gretel connection, which would be assuming too much on our part.

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    • Simple answer: We just don't mention Riliane reincarnating in the history. There, problem solved.

      Methinks we should wait until the Tailor novel before we make any assumptions.

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    • Hey everyone. I don't mean to necro this thread, but I did some research and we may now have the origin of Willus' name. Below is the draft of my proposed trivia points.

      • Willus' name is derived from his representative Vocaloid WIL, with Willus' name containing wiru (ウィ) in it.
      • Interestingly, his surname, Zorach, shares the same characters as the ZOLA PROJECT, which his representative Vocaloid, WIL, is a part of.

      Investigator Qyoichi, who just kinda pops up in the Pierrot novel, may also be represented by KYO, who is also from the ZOLA PROJECT.

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    • Small nitpick, isn't "Zola" in English? I'm not seeing the Japanese characters it's derived from. So would you be able to say that "Zorach" shares the same characters as the "Zola" project?

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    • I'm not sure we should be adding any trivia points that claim his representative Vocaloid is WIL when there's no evidence suggesting that anywhere, save for a vague similarity in name.

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    • Alright, I checked the characters.

      Zorach is our translation for ゾラック (Zorakku). The ZOLA Project's romanization seems to be  ゾラ (Zora)

      Willus is our translation for ウィルス (Wirusu). WIL's romanization seems to be ウィル (Wiru)

      Qyoichi is our translation for キョーイチ(Kyooichi). KYO's romanization seems to be キョ (Kyoo).

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    • 0O0 Oh, where did you find the romanizations?

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    • For Zorach, Willus and Qyoichi, they're here on the wiki. As for the others, that's just guesswork on my end. We'll need someone well-versed in that part of the Vocaloid fandom.

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    • I was just saying since it looks to me like those names are intentionally in English. It doesn't mean these aren't references, but you can't necessarily say they match up in romaji since the names and title of the package doesn't have romaji. You could only say the romaji is "similar to" the name for so and so > > 

      • Edit* More like we don't know if the Japanese matches but you know what I mean =3=

      And it would mean if it is a reference we'd probably have to retranslate it as Zolach.

      So yes

      And, as the anon said, assigning a Vocaloid to a character that had not been confirmed or made blatantly obvious by the narrative is very risky. There's nothing really indicating Willus is WIL outside of what could easily be coincidence.

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    • Before Aai's article goes up, I want to confirm we're okay with using "Aai" as the name spelling. It's the literal romanization, and might be a good indicator of a possible Vocaloid, but it can also be translated as Ai or something else without affecting that reference (at least for our trivia). So long as her name's not Eye, I'm personally okay with whatever.

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    • I believe mothy intended for her name to be Eye and I only accept you putting up those articles if you name her that way.


      Jk jk, Aai is just fine tbh

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    • I'm fine with Aai.

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    • same

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    • Then the page will go up as is. That was easy enough.

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    • I'd just like to point out that, having read the scene where Seth speaks to Adam before talking to Gumillia, nowhere in it does it actually state that Adam is also the "Demon of Wrath". Seth did not say "You and I are both 'The Demon of Wrath'", he said, roughly, "I will [act/speak/etc] befitting myself, as the 'Demon of Wrath'."

      Adam is not the Demon, nor does he share the title.

      Only saying this because it claims so on his page and other places on the wiki and. Well. It's blatantly not true.

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    • Sounds like the pages should be changed then. I don't see any reason to debate over that.

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    • I will point out, though, that unless we've been blatantly lied to (which doesn't seem to be the case given other places that Seth states that Adam acted on anger and hatred), Adam has acted similar to the Demon of Wrath. I mean, given everything that went down with Clarith, unless she was delusional, according to Seth that was Adam. So that's something to chew on in regards to what it means.

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    • https://thefifthclown.tumblr.com/post/186596810493/recollection-a

      Price describes Ly was "nouveau riche" which explicitly means someone who's only recently become rich and acts gaudy because of it. Not sure if that means Ly was only recently allowed to flaunt her money like Princess Morbucks or if her family as a whole had only recently become rich... I'll ask Price about it and what it was originally in Japanese.

      Also this is probably the first time the virgin requirement to qualify for Ma is mentioned.

      https://thefifthclown.tumblr.com/post/186597125433/part-1-chapter-2-the-first-murder-scene-1 https://thefifthclown.tumblr.com/post/186597473078/part-1-chapter-2-the-first-murder-scene-2

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    • Is the idea that Ney possessed Lemy to kill Ton a result of Servant translating her words to him as "Leave. Everything. To me."?

      Because by my translation she actually says "Give over. Everything. To Yourself." Which sounds more like she's encouraging him to give in to his latent murderous impulses.

      Asking instead of outright making the correction because I don't know if Ney discusses this with Lemy at any point afterwards and I'd rather not have to search extensively for it.

      -Price

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    • With the latest translation post, it seems to me that the townspeople of Calgaround painting its buildings red is something Mayrana made them do as mayor, instead of some decades- or centuries-long tradition.

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    • Thoughts on the latest translation post:

      • It's apparently a thing for Lighwatch priestesses in general to be able to detect HER and stay in the Magic Kingdom their whole lives (I'm guessing they can't leave?) At least, that's the impression I'm getting.
      • Irina speculates that Seth had Hansel and Gretel make the demons. Something interesting.
      • It seems Irina experimenting on Eve so she'd have the power to summon the Court was something she was preparing to use specifically for the end of the world. I wonder how that changes our view on the information revealed in the Heavenly novel.
      • Irina wants to destroy anything related to the gods - not just Levia and Behemo, but also the spirits and even the demons. Pretty interesting.
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    • GreekTelepath wrote:
      Thoughts on the latest translation post:
      • It's apparently a thing for Lighwatch priestesses in general to be able to detect HER and stay in the Magic Kingdom their whole lives (I'm guessing they can't leave?) At least, that's the impression I'm getting.
      • Irina speculates that Seth had Hansel and Gretel make the demons. Something interesting.
      • It seems Irina experimenting on Eve so she'd have the power to summon the Court was something she was preparing to use specifically for the end of the world. I wonder how that changes our view on the information revealed in the Heavenly novel.
      • Irina wants to destroy anything related to the gods - not just Levia and Behemo, but also the spirits and even the demons. Pretty interesting.

      The thing on Seth making the Twins rebirth the kin into demons is mention, also, on the Outlaw novel if recall correctly.

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    • It is not mentioned in Outlaw. iirc the demons' creation isn't even discussed in that novel.

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    • A FANDOM user
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