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  • Servant of Evillious
    Servant of Evillious closed this thread because:
    Post count. A newer thread has been made: http://theevilliouschronicles.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:29916
    01:00, September 18, 2014

    This thread pertains to the following albums:

    This is a discussion thread for the afformentioned albums and their content. Please try to remain on topic while discussing, but otherwise ask or speculate about whatever you want. Any major changes you'd like to make to any wiki articles, please pose here first.

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    • 76.95.172.65 wrote:
      One thing I've been wondering about is what exactly the "awakening" of the vessels of sin truly means. In fact, there's a lot we really don't know about how the vessels can affect the world. How do vessels awaken? What exactly are the beings that result from this process? Spirits of the vessels' most notorious owners? The demon itself? 

      How will collecting all the sins grant the collector a wish? Is it because the demons are grateful to the collector, or will the collector actually gain the demons' power and use it to grant their own wish?

      Lastly, what's up with both the Waiter and Irregular appearing as well as the Master of the Graveyard's two servants? Aren't they all incarnations of Hansel and Gretel? Granted, the servants are more Pollo and Arte, but those two were reincarnations in the first place.

      ^ Taken from the announcement I made for this.

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    • To try and address all points with our (newish) information:

      1. We don't really know what awakening means yet, but I've personally speculated it's the Demons of Sin manifesting in more solid but nonetheless phantom forms as a sign of their greater power. But it could be a different case for each demon as well; I think the greatest mystery is where their bodies come from rather than who they are. We know Master of the Graveyard is the spirit of Banica because she ate and became the old demon, suggesting the Awakened Vessels are in fact the demons. But on the Waiter, Ma's comment in Evils Kingdom suggests that Riliane's sin stayed with her forever (whether that means something about Waiter or is just symbolic, I'm not sure.) Gammon also indicates that Gear, rather than being Gallerian, is actually Adam, or at least carries his motivations to some extent. 

      I'm pretty sure on that note that Master of the Court is neither Gallerian nor Margarita. And the "replacement" vessels of Envy and Lust don't really have much meaning yet, as it could only be coincidence that Gammon showed up at the Theater.

      2. Personally I'm thinking that Ma lied, or at least bent the truth, when she told Gallerian that. It was the best way to get him and later his "daughter" to collect all the vessels, and there really hasn't been any indication that was the case beforehand. But it's also possible that would just be something they do when they were all together, like one Uber-Contract, if you will. Whether or not it'd be a good thing...I doubt it.

      3. This seems to have arisen from a small misunderstanding, but it also pertains to new information: To start with, Irregular and Waiter are specifically not incarnations of Hansel and Gretel. Irregular is an incarnation of Allen Avadonia, who was supposed to be Hansel but is confirmed by Praefacio to have avoided that fate. Waiter, if she's an incarnation of Riliane, would also not be Gretel since Ney was the Gretel of that time period. (Check her page.)

      But it's interesting to note Gammon's take on that issue. He says in our new translation that Graveyard's servants are merely copies of Hansel and Gretel (aka Arte and Pollo) made from their residual wills left in the glass when they were absorbed. He also indicates that the originals have disappeared entirely, which means there is no true Hansel and Gretel in the theater right now. He also pointed out Waiter's similarity to them, but stated she appeared to be a completely different person. So, there is currently no contradiction, but it is a mystery nonetheless. 

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    • In regards to the Servants, Sickle also touches upon this as well. Based on his indication, what we have are basically incarnations of what's left of H&G.

      Sickle states their souls have continually degraded with each reincarnation, hence why the "servants' don't seem to resist her. He also uses the term "servants" as if it's a thing (or he's referring to Arte and Pollo).

      Based on that, it's possible the Servants are just what's left of H&G's souls. Incarnated drones that are merely an extension of their master's will (and desire to be reunited with Arte/Pollo) and nothing more.

      That's kind of a sad fate for them and all their incarnations, if that is indeed the case.


      I have leaned on the awakened vessels being the demons of sins for a while now, even moreso now that we have Banica and MotG's connection confirmed, but there are definitely a lot of inconsistencies.

      Riliane and the Waiter's personalities don't match up. Waiter acts more like a mediator for Riliane before the revolution and after a few years in the convent. If this was just her, she shouldn't be acting the way she does.

      I was talking to Sloth on chat the other day about how I considered MotC being the Demon of Sloth that, after its interactions with Margarita and Gallerian, developed its own goals.

      To me, that would explain the Doll's morality crisis, as the demons seem to only know how to spread malic and evil (and the only good is what helps themselves). It would also make sense since mothy confirmed in his Entr'acte interview that the demons can develop their own desires/goals through the hosts they interact with beyond just spreading evil for the lolz.

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    • Thanks for helping to clear that up. I now know that Ney was the Gretel instead of Rilliane, but who was the Hansel that replaced Allen? Or was he only not Hansel because the reincarnations have to be siblings? However, obviously that isn't true due to Lemy (but isn't there "another yellow" mentioned in the video?). So who was the Hansel of that period? And that also brings up the thing with the Pere Noel line-up, what with Lemy being called the male yellow . . .

      Something else I'm kind of confused about (which does not entirely pertain to the albums, I think). It may have to do with the fact that outdated information is still lingering around, but what is with Irina and Elluka? Has it been confirmed that they were not originally that girl from the song about HER? 

      One more offtopic thing: Due to Kiril's case, doesn't that mean HER manifests as something like schizophrenia, or at least the stereotypical portayal of schizophrenia, with voices being heard convincing the afflicted to do something? Also, did Kiril know that putting Elluka's body in Sin would cause the explosion? I'm assuming that's what the "evil" part of HER was. If he didn't, than could that mean that HER is somehow more than just a mental illness?

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    • I also remember that we talked about how contradicting waiter's origins are if she were "just the demon". We know for a fact that the demon of pride didn't care for Riliane whatsoever (unlike the Demon of Sloth which had an obvious liking for Eve's appearance, Gallerian and possibly even Margarita) and Riliane didn't replace him either unlike Banica (unless there's something we don't know about pertaining Riliane's aftermath? Even if that was the case, then the problems that Servy brought up would still apply, though.) That makes waiter some sort of mysterious character in all of these (well... Aren't all of them mysterious though?)

      As far as we know, there is no Hansel in the Story of Evil. I mean, if there is a reincarnation, it does not come up during the events of the DoE. And Blood Stained Switch happens in a different period than the whole chronicles as far as I am aware (?), so I think Mayu isn't related to Elluka and Irina at all.


      Edit: Stupid phone >_> It messed up the code and I couldn't even edit it!

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    • 108.219.152.96 wrote:
      Thanks for helping to clear that up. I now know that Ney was the Gretel instead of Rilliane, but who was the Hansel that replaced Allen? Or was he only not Hansel because the reincarnations have to be siblings?

      Sloth's got the right idea. There was no Hansel born along with Ney, as far as we know. Prim and Abyss I.R.'s disturbance of fate put their reincarnation cycle out of whack, according to the Demon of Gluttony (though this is just her conclusion based on what happened).

      108.219.152.96 wrote:
      However, obviously that isn't true due to Lemy (but isn't there "another yellow" mentioned in the video?). So who was the Hansel of that period? And that also brings up the thing with the Pere Noel line-up, what with Lemy being called the male yellow .

      Lemy was born alone because the DoG already had Gretel. According to Gammon in Evils Court though, Lemy wasn't born with a Gretel this time around (which is why I personally don't believe the implied "female yellow" fourth member is a Rin char).

      108.219.152.96 wrote:
      Something else I'm kind of confused about (which does not entirely pertain to the albums, I think). It may have to do with the fact that outdated information is still lingering around, but what is with Irina and Elluka? Has it been confirmed that they were not originally that girl from the song about HER?

      Currently, nothing's been confirmed about them other than what you see in the articles. Elluka's a former priestess who met with Held and became Kiril's lover/apprentice, and Irina's Kiril's little sister who was jealous of his lover.

      So far, the info about them being from this girl in Blood-Stained Switch is being nixed as a shaky theory by a fan on NND using "mothy" as a username, which was assumed by one of our users. Nothing denies the possibility of this being the case, but so far no source has corraborated it.

      108.219.152.96 wrote:
      One more offtopic thing: Due to Kiril's case, doesn't that mean HER manifests as something like schizophrenia, or at least the stereotypical portayal of schizophrenia, with voices being heard convincing the afflicted to do something? Also, did Kiril know that putting Elluka's body in Sin would cause the explosion? I'm assuming that's what the "evil" part of HER was. If he didn't, than could that mean that HER is somehow more than just a mental illness?

      HER Syndrome has been, since its introduction in Blood-Stained Switch, a condition that a person is born with the sole desire to spread malice across the world. BSS points out Dissassociative Identity Disorder as a possible symptom, so I think anything resembling schizophrenia is believable too.

      According to OSS Act 2 and the Lunacy novel, Kiril was resisting his fate as a HER while Irina gave into her darker nature (though it's debateable if Kiril even knew she was a HER, and Irina herself doesn't seem to suffer from voices/multiple personalities).

      After Elluka's death, it seems Kiril was unknowingly giving into his fate; that said, there's a lot more to discuss regarding that so I point you toward our Act 1 and Act 2 threads.

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    • I'm assuming that even if there is a yellow, and even if she's a Rin character, she'd be in the same boat as Riliane. Now there's no other person to hold Gretel's soul, but there's no Gretel soul to go into hers. Although that might mean she's an anomaly like Allen...I think it's just a red herring. Maybe we'll learn that Lemy actually had a little sister who died at birth or was miscarried. (Possibly twin absorption OUO;) I feel the fourth member is a red herring, in that regard.

      But, after all, Gammon might not know the whole context behind Lemy being born without a Gretel. He's only speculating on some of these stories. 

      My only thing when it comes to the Awakened Vessels is that they all might be a little different in their circumstances (and possibly their reasons for awakening.) Gear, for example, apparently holding Adam's wish in addition(?) to being the demon of Greed. Unless Adam's wish just hitched a ride on the Spoon after going on through Kachess's descendants or something (Maybe that's why Marlon has so many Kaitos-) Except this is speculation at this point ouo; Then there's MotG being the only previous human, Waiter having this weird parallel to Riliane, and two of the vessels haven't even awoken but it might be for unrelated reasons...

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    • In Evils Kingdom, Ma mentions that some have "forgotten their purpose" while others had yet to awaken. Ignoring the fact that we don't know what the purpose is, who do you think would have "forgotten" there's?

      MotG is at least pretending to serve Ma's wishes; MotC also seems to be in league with her.

      We don't know Waiter of Gear's motivations or goals so they are perhaps the ones that have forgotten their purpose. Sickle says something similar about the "Servants" (H&G) so they might be included in that too.

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    • I personally feel like the whole "serving Ma's wishes" thing doesn't necessarily mean they're not included in the "forgotten their purpose". It's hard to guess without actually knowing what their purpose was. If we stick to the "Awakened Vessels=Demons" theory, I'd say that every demon whose wishes were influenced by some human might have forgotten their purpose.

      As such, almost every vessel besides MoTG (sure, she's banica. But banica is the demon. As such, she did not forget her purpose, since she was never influenced by some other person as far as we know.) has been influenced. Court, Gear, Waiter. If MoTHellY is an awakened vessel, then she probably doesn't fit this category (or maybe she does? Who knows...)

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    • It's definitely an odd situation, no matter how you look at it. That said, Evils Court does bring up more evidence to that idea:

      "If I were to make a bold hypothesis, Mrs. Blankenheim might've intentionally spawned an incarnation of the demon."

      The meaning behind Gammon's words isn't made clear, but he definitely makes that sound like the situation Banica seems to be working towards. While it still doesn't explain how/why Margarita may have triggered the Doll to awaken (assuming MotC is the Demon of Sloth), it would at least hint that we're getting more info in the upcoming Gift novel.

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    • Just to reiterate what I put in the edits, we got two more songs for The Muzzle of Nemesis album:

      • そして少女は狂いだした -終末月夜抄-
      • またたき

      I put their names as "And Then the Girl Went Mad -End of a Moonlit Night-" and "Blink" respectively for now.

      That said, I'm not the best translator and we lack a lot of context for these songs (like the other new songs) so the translation may need to be changed in the future.

      Personally, I think we should make articles for them and make the necessary changes/deletions after the album releases and we get more details about what each song is about (Blink for instance could also be "Flicker" or "Twinkle").

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    • Well, I think it's the same... The articles won't have much details for now anyway, so having them or not right now doesn't make much of a difference to the wiki. Imo, we should wait for more information before making any other articles.

      Also, should we consider the GUMI character in the cover of the album the wrath sinner? We could change the images we have of her (from EVILS Forest) to that new one. But is it safe to make that assumption?

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    • Considering the album shares the same title, I think it's a safe assumption so I'm for it.

      The new image gives us a full profile of the face so a square image would fit perfectly there (though the one I uploaded should be cropped a bit more imo).

      Depending on whether she's a new or existing character, we could also maybe crop out an image for one of our standalone articles.

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    • I also think it's a safe assumption, or else mothy is being one hell of a troll. 

      I'm alright with making the pages just because we already made the pages for the other songs and we didn't have any more or less info on them either, but we know we're going to in less than a month. As long as we don't put the names everywhere on the wiki so that it will be a hassle if we end up changing them <u<; 

      So if the character does turn out to be an existing character, I dunno if we'd want to make the picture the new infobox image. After all, it's kind of a twist that they'd turn out to be the host of Wrath (doesn't matter how many people speculated it of the three GUMI chars we have, mothy has been holding this song back for a long time and building suspense, so it'd make more sense to show what our first impression of the character is intended to be as the image.)

      If it's a new character, would her being a protagonist of a Seven Deadly Sins song justify her getting a new article if we don't end up mining that much information on her? Probably not but just throwing that out there.

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    • It depends on how much we know about her and how integral she is to the plot imo. I feel we'll get enough info about her from the album (though maybe not the song). If she's an existing character though, it'll definitely be easier since we'll already have at least a decent amount of info to work with.

      That twist argument makes sense. I guess it depends on who the character is and what we know about them, but assuming they are an existing character, I can see why leaving their current infobox image might be best.

      At the same time, I think fans will most identify the character by the song they're in. If it's someone like Hellish, it might be best to leave the avatar alone. If it's someone like Gumillia, I'd argue it'd be better to change it to the album one. If it's both, then that's a separate argument entirely.

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    • I approve of making pages for new songs.

      If she's an already existing character, I vote for keeping their most recognizable image (probably from a song) as the infobox image. Gumina and Hellish are both fairly well-known, and depending on Muzzle's reception, I would either keep their images as is or change them if the new song recieves far more press than their older songs. For Gumillia, I would definitely go for the album image as that's very, very likely to be more recognisable by most people than her current image.

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    • AVATARTEST
      I can agree with that sentiment. To give everyone a better idea, I've screenshotted one of my tests for this proposed avatar:
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    • Pardon the pun, but I think we're jumping the gun a bit here. The girl in the Muzzle of
      Gumillia (The Last Revolver)
      Nemesis ad has a very similar (if not identical) outfit to the assassin in The Last Revolver. If we're assuming that the girl is indeed the Wrath Sinner, then that would mean Wrath Sinner = Assassin in Last Revolver.
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    • I'm all for the avatar. I think it looks great. Although discussion on whether or not we should use it really depends on who the character is imo and if it's fitting towards their personality and role in their story instead of which song is more popular. If it's a new character, awesome, of course this will do greatly. However, if it's somehow Hellish in some way then I'd rather not because I see her avatar currently as very fitting for her "Master of the Hellish Yard" title. Besides we might be having a Banica--->MotG and Allen--->Irregular thing going on if the Wrath Sinner is somehow the Master of the Hellish Yard so we might actually have separating articles.

      Well if it's Gumillia in the end, I think this an alright avatar. I mean it would capture her serious (and wrathful) side. Besides, personally, I feel like being the Wrath Sinner would be more important than her being an apprentice to Elluka.

      Oh, I also agree on new pages for songs. We already have them for the others. :O

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    • GreekTelepath wrote:
      [snip]

      I was discussing this with a few users on chat for a bit, but personally I wouldn't mind assuming that's the case (though I'm biased towards any proof that The Last Revolver is part of EC). Others would argue it might be a copy cat but I personally don't see it. I don't mind either way, but if we're assuming those two characters are the same, I'm alright with it.

      Either way, I'll give a pass for us to make the articles. If anyone has anything to contribute regarding other possible translations or what they think may be a likely translation, feel free to speculate. I have a feeling all these songs save for Hellish are going to need some sort of name change though once we get our hands on the lyrics and know about the plot of each song.

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    • I think the cover was just to show us the remake of The Last Revolver, not that I think it bites, Ichika's art never ceases to amaze me yo! I'm just not seeing a lot of evidence but the other side of me wants to believe that the Assassin is the sinner of Wrath.

      (I have a huge habit of taking the littlest of things too seriously.)

      But if Gumilia turns out to be both the sinner and 8 the Sniper then that wil be the most mineblown and dumbest thing, I am looking forward to the Wrath song really I am, it's just we can't just put another deadly sin during the Sloth era it will just clutter up, plus Gumilia is a strong willed girl/spirit and will never have the lack of will and closure capable to be a Ira's candidate.

      On the other hand, as some people pointed out and theorized, and from all the independent research i've done without alot of commenting on this site, i've had a anxious feeling that Irina maybe Ma, killed Gallerian's wife and daughter, and Elluka may have lost her body again and went into Gumilia's body, then out of pure anger and hatred with her sister-in-law became the Wrath sinner herself, soon becoming The Master of the Hellish Yard.

      But as I said before it was just a feeling and I do habit of taking things too seriously.

      As @Octofan said beforehand: "Mothy's one hell of a troll".

      I couldn't agree more with someone about a producer who loves to troll his fans but that's me being impatient about the Wrath song coming out.

      Do you get my meaning on this? -Tomboy Jessie

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    • I didn't say he was a troll, I said he would be one if it turned out it wasn't the host for wath. Don’t you quote-mine, you mine-blowing person you! >8I

      After all, the title of the song is Muzzle (as in gun muzzle, some translate it as gunpoint) of Nemesis. The album is titled after the song, not Last Revolver. If the character pointing the muzzle of the gun on the album cover isn't the character featured in the song then it nonetheless is a deliberate point on mothy's part to make us think it is. Since we don't work on the assumption that "mothy is trolling on this information" when applying our "so obvious it hurts" rule, I think there is definitely enough evidence to assume this is the host for wrath.

      What it means that the outfit is similar (Sleeves weren't part of the outfit and the skirt was shorter, pleated) to The Last Revolver character's, though, we can only speculate. It could be that Last Revolver isn't canon, and was just an exercise with the character by mothy. It could be it doesn't take place when we think it does, and the two characters are the same. It could be the wrath song takes place in the Sloth era and what significance that holds will probably be presented soon enough. Both characters could be Gumillia, and she just didn't change her outfit much from Last Revolver to whenever Muzzle of Nemesis is. 

      But regardless, the two songs have been given a definite connection in this outfit, the use of guns, mothy's Nemesis poem (whether or not it's canon it is drawing on both songs), etc. It's just a matter of how they're connected, and if it's in-universe or just symbolic.

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    • Let's not forget that Ichika could also just be updating her design, hence the small differences. We've seen this before plenty of times to a smaller or greater degree (DoE Riliane ---> CoY Riliane).

      File:GumilliaRevolver.png
      At the same time though, we should keep Ichika's illustrations from when mothy congratulated TLR for reaching 500,000 views on twitter in mind as well.

      Her illustration she made in response to it also gives this GUMI a different design compared to the others.

      Ichika's improved/changed as an artist since TLR's release too so that may have something to do with it (no more ghost white skin for example).

      I think arguing what's intentional, unintentional, part of the same character, part of a different character, etc. is going to get us nowhere; the situation's too muddied. I don't mind if we assume our wrath character and TLR people are different or the same til the final confirmation, but arguing appearances is pointless imo.

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    • @Octofan

      Sorry about the "Trolling" part,

      Secondly, I'm just stating what I know and feel about GUMI's character for Wrath, either if she's a new character or if Gumilia finally snapped after repressing her feelings for so long think about it for a minute.

      On the other hand(again), I can't be too sure what would happen in the album, judgeing by the list of songs I can pretty much assume that it runs in a song series like Pride and Sloth did, but that's still needs more.........AGH! I'M GETTING A HEAD ACHE FROM ALL THIS NONSENSE! If you need me I'll be cooling down and getting my head straight.

      -Tomboy Jessie

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    • MuzzleCodeNameEight
      Welp, our PV is coming Friday night or Saturday morning (around these hours I'm posting this, more or less).

      The Muzzle's gotten two new teasers, one just being the "Now, confess" line over a starry night sky and the other being this image on the right.

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    • Well s**t the sinner is gumillia

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    • So our speculation about Gumilia being the Sniper was right!? Dammit, we need the Sloth novel translation right now. There are too much loose ends to tie

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    • Adept-eX wrote:
      So our speculation about Gumilia being the Sniper was right!? Dammit, we need the Sloth novel translation right now. There are too much loose ends to tie

      The Fanbook already confirmed Gumillia was VIII. the Sniper (unless you are referring to something else).

      I get the feeling that light novel won't tie many ends though regarding Muzzle and/or The Last Revolver (at least, not without the Five the Pierrot novel). I've got my pre-order set so we'll see how that discussion thread develops. There's a 10 day gap between the album and light novel's release.

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    • My god...Gumillia is the sinner?........GOD DAMN IT I WAS AFRAID THAT SHE BE THE MASTER OF THE HELLISH YARD!!!!!! T-T why Mothy why!? Gumillia's a good girl why would you make her snap!?....also wasn't she supposed to be holding the golden key/knife?

      -Tomboy Jessie

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    • Headcanon: She uses a silver revolver loaded with golden bullets, made from the Golden Key. Considering the shape-shifting skills of the they, along the fact Carlos shaved the Vessel for obtain the powder used on his medicine, gives the impression the Key is capable of regain itself or produce more mass in case of be required.

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      Well s**t the sinner is gumillia

      DAMN IT MOTHY! WHY DID YOU MAKE GUMILLIA SNAP?! Also shouldn't she be holding a golden key/knife?

      -Tomboy Jessie

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    • I don't know if you can see it since Discussion boards get funky sometimes, but you're saying the same thing twice, Jessie. 

      To address Adept's reply, I actually had the same theory XD Not sure if there would be a point since bullets are pretty lethal anyway, but then so are pointy knives. 

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    • Unless she attempts to kill a demon, right? That way she would need the key's properties for that.

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    • TLRyearupdate
      Well would you look at that. mothy's added a year to The Last Revolver's little blurb.

      [?82] is what he's put there.

      Regardless of anything else, this is the needed confirmation that The Last Revolver is part of the Evillious chronology (yay!).

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    • Talking about the chronology... it's a shame the year feature was removed from the song infobox =/

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    • Sorry Octofan, my tablet was acting up so anyone wanted to delete one of my comments I won't stop you guys.

      But like I said I'm quite shocked that Gumillia is the sinner of Wrath, like how did this happen, I could compare her personality with the sin of Wrath and that doesn't fit that description.

      -Tomboy Jessie

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    • Nice to see mothy finally cleared up that issue and put a date XD I wonder what the point is omitting the first part of the year, though <o<

      Does this mean we'll be assuming the assassin is Gumillia and re-adding all our old stuff, or will we just as well wait a tiny bit longer to see how exactly it fits back into canon? 

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    • Octofan wrote:
      Nice to see mothy finally cleared up that issue and put a date XD I wonder what the point is omitting the first part of the year, though <o<

      Not really "cleared" up when the first digit is missing. It could be he's just leaving it as another tease and will put the full year at some future date, such as maybe Muzzle or the album's release.

      Does this mean we'll be assuming the assassin is Gumillia and re-adding all our old stuff, or will we just as well wait a tiny bit longer to see how exactly it fits back into canon? 

      The latter. There's no way we could put in old assumptions if we can't even safely assume the time period. Regardless of who the character is in TLR, we lack a definitive date or understanding of events. We'd be risking a lot more fanon to re-add anything at this point, which was the point of us pulling it in the first place.

      I think the only thing we can safely assume is that this song is Evillious, as the events of all of mothy's songs that have those labels have occurred at some point in the chronology.

      Here's another tidbit I missed:

      HeartbeatClocktowerTag
      Seems Heartbeat Clocktower and Regret Message got their first part of the years added ( [9??] and [5??] respectively).


      I
      RegretMessageTag
      can't confirm if that was done recently, but I made the original blogpost recording all these back in May.


      I get the feeling it was done at the same time as TLR though given the similar pattern. Who knows, might even be some sort of code.

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    • Welp, now that the song's out. Here's what we got:

      【???】

      我は憤怒の化身【ira】

      No updates to the above mentioned one. But, based on the PV, The Last Revolver takes place in EC 982 and The Muzzle of Nemesis takes place in EC 983. There's a lot more to analyze (especially with mothy's bad English):

      If I'm reading this right, here are the credits:

      GUMI = Nemesis Sudou (Codename: 8)

      KAITO = Gallerian Marlon

      Hatsune Miku = Michelle Marlon (Clockworker's Doll)

      ? = Kayo Sudou (Ma)

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    • Things I've noticed:

      • She has a bullet wound on her temple
      • In the minute 3:16 we can see Michelle drowing
      • When MA is shown it's implied she is a HER 


      Apparenly Gallerian choose create his own Pere Noel. It wouldn't be weird considering MA told him the about Lemmy

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    • Oh, good, it's clearly not Gumillia. Now maybe people will stop assuming the wrath sinner is Gumillia. Although I'm pretty sure someone still will...

      So anyway, what else is there at the moment?

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    • Well, apparently this new character believes that Ma and Gallerian are her mother and father, respectively. 

      She also seems to be the owner of the Jis Tiama that killed Michelle and Gallerian's wife, from what I got. I might be assuming too much, but that's what I got.

      And since Mr. Père Noel is Gallerian, who is also the Master of the Court, and the one who ordered Nemesis to kill her lover, it should be obvious that Gallerian is "Santa" from The Last Revolver. 


      Also, one important fact: mothy doesn't know how to spell "Lyrics". 

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    • TWO sins happend and the same time this has been the biggest plot twist of my life!

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    • Adept-eX wrote:
      Things I've noticed:
      • She has a bullet wound on her temple
      • In the minute 3:16 we can see Michelle drowing
      • When MA is shown it's implied she is a HER 

      Yeah, Sloth pointed out the bullet wound on chat. Her mask is also seemingly randomly covering eyeholes so I assume that's an artistic effect.

      (Sloth also pointed out that mothy misspelled "Lyric" as "Lylic" at the beginning)

      Michelle's drowning ("five years ago" = EC 978) and that transformation from the Clockworker's Doll seems to imply two things:

      (1) Michelle is indeed portrayed by Hatsune Miku and Gallerian and Gallerian perceives her as that and

      (2) That the Clockworker's Doll isn't even awakened yet; it's just Gallerian thinking he's interacting with a person when it's the normal (small) sized doll.

      Yeah, first thing I noticed when "Mother" came up, the "her" was highlighted in red. This seems to reinforce the implication in Lunacy's extra chapter that Ma herself is a HER and isn't just talking about more existing.

      We also finally got the "Ziz" everyone wanted. It's the name of a (her pet?) Very Amazing Octopus. XD Ziz-san or Mr/Ms. Ziz is oddly funny.

      The fact Ma or rather "Kayo Sudou" And "Nemesis Sudou" share the same surname implies that Ma is at least the adoptive mother, if not her biological mother.

      I can't make out the lyrics, but does Nemesis refer to Gallerian as "My Father" at the end or is that referencing someone else?

      The fact Ma and Michelle's sillouhettes are side by side in the beginning of the PV and Ma's potential daughter has a (pet?) giant octopus may get us closer to the confirmation that Ma is responsible for Gallerian's family's death.

      It'd be interesting if Gallerian did make a Pere Noel. Even more curiously, he's called "Mr. Pere Noel" and "Santa Claus".

      Either way, he's the "Master" and "Santa" who ordered Nemesis to kill her lover.

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    • Ok, maybe I'm a step behind everyone else, but I'm more confused than before. Then again, this is Evillous, so my confusion shouldn't be surprising. I'll just let all this new information stew for a while.

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    • Ziz is a party of the trinity of Behemoth and Leviathan. Behemoth ruled the lands, levianthan ruled the seas and Ziz ruled the sky.

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    • Nemesis states that she doesn't know her father's face at one point

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    • Well, if the girl was raised by MA, you can be sure that most of her life had been a lie

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    • Then again she calls the doll, "sister".

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    • Well, then. That definitely adds a whole new twist to things. So there's definitely a chance Ma and Gallerian are 'romantically' involved at some point? I know it might be a stretch, and note that I have quotations around romantically, but with Ma, anything can go.

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    • Adept-eX wrote:
      Well, if the girl was raised by MA, you can be sure that most of her life had been a lie

      I can definitely imagine that. I posed the question to Sloth earlier that she may be Gallerian's illegitimate daughter with Ma from his younger years (I'd say she'd be roughly 19 during this song then since Gallerian would be 20 at that potential time).

      Hard to say for sure (though if anyone can link/post the full lyrics here, that'd help). I wonder if this means The Last Revolver took place in Levianta, or maybe Asmodean.

      Japanese fans argued The Last Revolver wasn't an Evillious song since Lucifenia is supposed to have "cool weather" while the song portrays four distinct seasons, including a snowy winter. Levianta is known to snow so it may fit.

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    • So what are we going to do, I want to take pv shots(no pun intended)

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    • Levianta also fits because it seems it had a close bond with Snakeland and the eastern countries (at least that's what the Venom Sword implies). It won't be weid if the country eventually adopted part of the culture as it owns, which will explain the style of clothing seen in Saigo no Revolver

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    • All articles are currently locked, but it's fine to start uploading PV shots, especially if they are in high quality (though that's locked to premium members).

      For those unable/unwilling to have an account, it'll help bridge the discussion to upload visual aids to what we're talking about.

      I'll unlock the respective articles after we get the song lyrics transcribed here and discuss their contents a bit.

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    • Adept-eX wrote:
      Levianta also fits because it seems it had a close bond with Snakeland and the eastern countries (at least that's what the Venom Sword implies). It won't be weid if the country eventually adopted part of the culture as it owns, which will explain the style of clothing seen in Saigo no Revolver

      Asmodean is also bordering the Eastern region and shows some cultural diffusion. Considering we have a Raisa Netsuma have "Snakeland" in her title, despite it being a "far off" island nation, I think it would match.

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    • As you said, Levianta and Asmodean are good scenarios for Saigo no Revolver.

      Now, if the codename: Eight is a reference to Gumilia, the previous Sniper, then Gallerian has a really dark sense of humor

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    • I'm 50% sure she is his daughter. She said that she killed her lover for him, she calls Michelle her sister. And killed her so that "she wouldn't be alone anymore". I guess she was the Ney to Gally's Prim.

      Also now that we know that greed and wrath happens at the same time what do we do with the characters list?

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    • Does this mean that the assasin/Nemesis Sudo/Whateverhernameis will get a new page? 

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:

      Also now that we know that greed and wrath happens at the same time what do we do with the characters list?

      Well for one, will there be a "Wrath" minor character list? I think between this song and TLR, we can get a decent article written up for Nemesis. She's really the only one so far.

      As for the list we use on Seven Deadly Sins, we could always use the Muzzle images and still make it a separate tab imo (unless we want to just include Muzzle).

      In retrospect, this would explain why mothy doesn't think there will be a novel for Muzzle. He could essentially make a Judgment of Corruption light novel and essentially get both stories crammed in there.

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    • Yeah. They take place at the same time, and it appears that she kills him in the fire.

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    • Given how many slots we have left, i bet he's making a series.

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    • Yeah, I think we can begin to build Nemesis' article now. Also Servy, if you aren't going ot unlock the Muzzle of Nemesis article, you will have to add the video links and lyrics into it.

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    • I'll start translating

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    • Adept-eX wrote:
      Yeah, I think we can begin to build Nemesis' article now. Also Servy, if you aren't going ot unlock the Muzzle of Nemesis article, you will have to add the video links and lyrics into it.

      Perfect. Just what we'll need. I'll unlock it at the end of today (or earlier if we accomplish everything fast). Let's examine the song lyrics and their translation so we can have an accurate idea for a summary, if not for the song itself. XD

      Edit: Interesting point, sounds like she was born in a "abandoned house in the forest" and didn't know her father. Yet another time someone's using that house.

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    • Got the first verse down already :)

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    • I found a Muzzle of Nemesis Youtube video! It doesn't have any subtitles but at least it's something people without NND accounts can see!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjBGoMYZsjU

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    • For those wonderful years at the beginning:

      001, 013, 015, 136, 325, 500, 609, 842, (gets hard to read but I believe "983" is afteward; not sure if more are shown). 

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    • Well, that was fast.

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    • Ok so Nemesis allowed Gally to choose how he would die.
      Goodguynemesis
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    • Die by burning or die by a gunshot to the head in an already burning building isn't much of a choice. XD

      The interesting part here is that Nemesis seems to give Gallerian a very similar, if not the exact same deal as Master of the Hellish Yard. He still refuses to give up his fortune and property.

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    • Difference between a slow death or a fast death.

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    • okay so, um, I realize that I'm not much help since I don't speak Japanese, so my idea of the plot could be completely wrong, but here's what I can figure out:

      1. Nemesis is taken in by Ma and/or Gallerian. She's brainwashed, so she can only follow orders.

      2. She lives with them and all is good for a while. 

      3. Then something happens with that octopus??

      4. She starts dating the current holder of the Venom Sword (not Venomania, the other guy).

      5. She falls in love with him (not according to plan.)

      6. She is ordered to kill him, and she does it, since all she knows how to do is follow orders.

      7. She's mad at Gallerian for that, because it's like, "DUDE. YOU MADE ME KILL MY BOYFRIEND."

      8. When Gallerian's house is burning down, she comes in and she offers Gallerian a choice: die by burning, or die by my shooting you.

      9. He chooses the burning.

      10. She becomes MotHellishy, I think. 

      yeah. that's the plot of Muzzle of Nemesis, to the best of my understanding.

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    • We aren't sure he had the Venom Sword. if he did, that would make her lover Nyoze.

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    • I can confirm that Gally is the father

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    • DONE! I've translated the song!

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    • Nemesis definitely refers to Ma as her Mother repeatedly and several times referred to Gallerian as Father. Michelle gets the term "stepsister/sister-in-law" that Ney and others get in reference to their half-siblings.

      I feel safe in saying they're related by blood. Does everyone else or should we hold off on that?

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    • I don't feel like we should really trust Nemesis. Not because I don't believe Nemesis, is just that I don't believe what Nemesis believes she knows. :P However, I that's only how I feel, so it isn't really an argument. I accept it. 

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    • I approve of stating that they are related.

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    • I assume Ma told her

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    • It could be the parents are adoptive like Julia was to Lemy. It would seem odd though that Gallerian would be considered the father otherwise (unless Ma is the adoptive "mother" and Nemesis had a different biological mather).

      As an add on, decided to look into Ziz a little more. I can confirm that "Jis" (Jizu) in Jis Tiama is the same spelling as it (ジズ jizu). I'm not sure on the "Tiama" part still (ティアマ) but it's something.

      Ziz-san/Mr. or Ms. Ziz might be a nickname for the octopus' species Nemesis or someone else gave it. 

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    • Nemesis states that mA is her biological mother and hints that ma told her about her Gallerian. If Ma told her the truth, then nemesis killed her flesh and blood.

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    • Well, Nemesis is unable to die, it seems. Tells me MA is likely her biological mother.

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    • How so?

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    • The ENglish Lyrics are finished, I made some mistakes, I know. Correct them when you find them theevilliouschronicles.wikia.com/wiki/User:Misstress_of_the_heavenly_yard/Sandbox#Court_Saga

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    • 67.65.248.159 wrote:
      Well, Nemesis is unable to die, it seems. Tells me MA is likely her biological mother.

      She may have simply chosen to not go through with it and only grazed herself. That blood doesn't look like a serious injury.

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    • It looks pretty thorough to me, having seen gun scars (military family). Buuuut, that may not mean much in an animated medium.

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    • So the part that explains why she survived her suicide attemt is ambiguous... Great, just great >:(

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    • Anyone notice how she shot her eye, but later when she has her gun against Gally's forehead she had both eyes? Like she got one back or whatever. Whenever she was shown before (apart from when she was a child) she was wearing a mask with either no eyes visible or with only one visible and the other covered by the mask. Do you think maybe wrath healed her? Like when Gluttony saved banica from dying and lust changed Veno's face to become handsome and achieve his goals.

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    • GUYS.  NEMESIS SUDOU IS THE WRATH SINNER.

      THIS CAN MEAN THAT THE GUMI IN THE LAST REVOLVER IS NOT GUMILIA BUT NEMESIS

      PLUS, SHE IS THE ILLEGITIMATE DAUGHTER OF GALLERIAN AND MA.

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    • This'll create a debacle for families. We're just about set to start adding family trees.

      Typically, having at least two different generation characters with the same surname means getting an article (Sudou family in this case). But, because of Ma's unique position, should we hold off on that and instead put her under the Marlon Royal Family?

      This is where the adoption/blood relation thing gets murky, especially with Ma's apparent identity as "Kayo Sudou" centuries after the actual Kayo in Lukana's body supposedly lived and died.

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    • Is mothy enjoying this? Messing with our brains?

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    • 119.95.65.238 wrote:
      GUYS.  NEMESIS SUDOU IS THE WRATH SINNER.

      THIS CAN MEAN THAT THE GUMI IN THE LAST REVOLVER IS NOT GUMILIA BUT NEMESIS

      PLUS, SHE IS THE ILLEGITIMATE DAUGHTER OF GALLERIAN AND MA.

      If she's their actual child, how the hell did a Snakelander and a Marlon man produce an Elphe child? If she was their actual child, then her hair should have been black or blue.

      I think it's more a of a Julia - Lemy thing. Interesting, that a character (Ma) speculated to be Irina has a relationship to Nemesis like Irina had to Lemy.

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    • Darkwarrior101 wrote:
      Snip.

      I think it's possible but we see Ichika use that effect with the masks of Kyle/Espionage Task Force. The eyeholes randomly showing or not showing may just be for artistic effect (like when a shadow blacks out the eyes to make it look more serioues/less human).

      Considering the blood/scar (think it's just blood) is on the right side of her face and her eyes are inconsistently blocked out in the same scene, with one showing both, I personally interpret that as just stylistic.

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    • Well Gally does have an elphe daughter with what we can assume isn't an Elphe mother. So i guess he had an elphe parent

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    • I just realized something... Nemesis may have set Gally's house on fire, but she didn't shoot him. Who did she shoot her gun at? I understand an epitome of sin isn't just one action, but what exactly did she do? She didn't shoot Gallerian. Did she start the Civil War?

      Where is the Golden Key in all this?

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    • Darkwarrior, the wound is on her temple. Everyone simply assumed she shot herself in the eye due to Hellish's mask, when it appears she actually placed the gun to the side of her head.

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    • She set his house on fire and then let him choose how to die. Either teh fire would claim him or she would shoot him

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    • Scarletta Agni wrote:
      I just realized something... Nemesis may have set Gally's house on fire, but she didn't shoot him. Who did she shoot her gun at?

      Remember, epitome of sin is just a fan term. These songs simply portray seven characters who have been possessed by the song's respective demon (in this case the Demon of Wrath). The only thing separating these possessions from others is they've been more central to the plot in some form (at least as far as the songs are concerned).

      She says goodbye to him at the end but it's not explicitly stated (or heard) if she actually shot him. Considering the house is on fire and we know Gallerian dies and JoC skips over actually mentioning how he died, I guess it's left up in the air (unless everyone feels her shooting him is a reasonably safe assumption for our articles).

      If we take the Nemesis poem into account, it fits; which is disturbing considering the events the poem also indicate happen later in the plot.

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    • 67.65.248.159 wrote:
      Darkwarrior, the wound is on her temple. Everyone simply assumed she shot herself in the eye due to Hellish's mask, when it appears she actually placed the gun to the side of her head.


      Hence why I think it may just be a graze. If she "was unable to die", it's possible she hesitated/failed to do so and instead chose to swear vengeance on Gallerian for ordering her to kill her lover.

      Considering the sheer lack of details we have, I am expecting the album has a booklet to elaborate a bit on it, especially since there are more GUMI songs for us to listen to in it.

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    • About that poem anyway. I know Mothy said it didn't have any meaning, however the first paragraph seems to say something that fits in well with the song. I wonder if it's something that we should take into account or would be safe to assume.  

      "Although she was a symbol of righteous indignation for the people, her personal intention was revenge. There was no one who knew the truth. She was honored as a hero after the civil war."

      I feel that no doubt that someone who took down the "Collector" would be seen as a hero afterwards. There was a sentence afterward that talked about her becoming a dictator however I felt like that wasn't relevant-.

      On another note, I'm fine with saying Nemesis being Gallerian and Ma's daughter. Though I would suggest we stay clear of stating whether or not Ma/Gallerian are the biological or adoptive mother/father respectively until we receive more information. I have a feeling that Ma might be lying (once again because we all know how she is) or all might not be said about the situation. Let's hope the booklet with the album clarifies it more.

      I'm fine with Nemesis being put in Marlon Family pages as well. However holding that off on the Suduo Family is alright because Ma is eh... an ambigious person so to say the least. Though I wonder if that means we'd have to add her to the Suduo family as well if we add Nemesis? It does seem like she does indentify as a Suduo given Nemesis' surname and it's said that her real name (hinted that her body as well) is "Kayo Suduo". However who can say that's because she took up the name due to personal interests or if that's the true case.

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    • So, I was just spending a lot of time editing the TV Tropes article for the Evillious Chronicles. So much stuff to type about Wrath and so little time!

      Literallty, they time you when you start editing. Like, you get twenty minutes before the editing lock runs out.

      So anyway, I might need clarification on some things; first off, are we in any way certain that Gallerian and Ma are her parents? And that Nemesis is her name? I understand that she isn't Gumillia (the PV shows her origins, so she can't possibly be Gumillia), so she's definitely a separate character.

      Okay I think I answered my own second question, never mind that one.

      As for the Gallerian question, is he her father? If so, then him and Ma...O_O E-ewwwwww! (I'm usually all for "villains in love" but only if it's, y'know, genuine and actual love; Gallerian and Ma strike me as the types who would just be pretending to be in love while secretly plotting to backstab each other). And Ma seems even more evil than she already was now, manipulating her daughter to kill her own sister and then making her kill her father. True, Gallerian had it coming, but still.

      And now we see that Gally was "Santa-san", or "Mr. Pere Noel" as Nemesis puts it. So, did he perhaps inherit Pere Noel from Irina in some way?

      I feel so bad for Nemesis. She looks like she had a rough life :(

      I'm rambling XD Sorry about the long post, I'm just so pumped! X3

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    • Wait now that wrath and greed is one series. WHat do we do with the seven deadly sin page's character section? Also should the lover be in greed?

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    • I did some crazy deducing and come up with a mad theory.There is already some unrest because of a question about Gallerian's relations with the Wrath girl.But what if she IS a daughter of the judge.I mean Gallerian became delusional after octopus attack, as he was certain Doll is his daughter,which mean he somehow "ignored" her death.Also during drowning scene her face is partly concealed.So my conclusion:Nemesis may be, in fact, Michelle Marlon.And at least a dozen possible explanations why it can be so.There are no direct evidence that Michelle is based on Miku.My japanese is very limited,so i could make mistakes in my judgement.If song makes direct division between Nemesis and Michelle,then my theory is broken in one punch.

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    • I like how Muzzle of Nemesis sounds like Judgement of Corruption in the opening instrumental. So far I've had no issues with this, it mainly causes me to wonder what happened to Gumillia? Did she die at the battle of Merigold Plateau?

      Also, Nemesis states in pure English (Engrish) in the song "My Father" so I assume she's quite certain on this xD but dang Wrathful Envious child, killing your sister because she knows your father and has his love. 

      But MA and Gallerian do not seem like the type to do the frickle frackle with eachother...

      and the fact that MA is [?] is now stating for certain that she isn't just Elluka because otherwise she'd be listed as Luka, would she not? Interesting treatment, like Irina and the Mysterious lover of Lukana.

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote:
      Scarletta Agni wrote:
      I just realized something... Nemesis may have set Gally's house on fire, but she didn't shoot him. Who did she shoot her gun at?

      She says goodbye to him at the end but it's not explicitly stated (or heard) if she actually shot him. Considering the house is on fire and we know Gallerian dies and JoC skips over actually mentioning how he died, I guess it's left up in the air (unless everyone feels her shooting him is a reasonably safe assumption for our articles).

      I feel that she shot him. Since this is the song for wrath, it just seems that letting him die in the fire would be too merciful and risky when it comes down to her goal.

      If I had a lot of pent up rage and daddy issues, I would want to be the one to end it all, with my own hand, not set a fire and hope he doesn't escape.

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    • WE HAVE AN ENGLISH TITLE!'

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    • Satan's Revenge

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    • I did a translation for the song lyrics. I used () for some alternate translations and left the main line as confess/repent because neither honestly sound right in the context of the song. Italics are used at the end for the line that appears after the song seems to actually end. Here we are:


      Sinful man     Now, confess/repent

      Hey Mother, I'm now

      pointing the muzzle towards this person

      He's decieved many people,

      abusing his position for personal profit


      For the sake of this man,

      I had to lose the person I loved

      I then shot myself afterward but

      I was unable to die


      The time for revenge (my vengeance) has come

      Now, confess/repent


      Hello and good-bye Mr. Pere Noel

      With the house set aflame, choose either

      a shot to the forehead

      or burning in these hell fires


      Hey, mother, any villain

      should be given the chance to atone, right?

      So I said to him:

      "Relinquish your entire fortune"

      "If you return everything you stole to the people,

      you're life will be spared"

      He answered:

      "I will

      "never hand over my fortune to you"


      Such hopeless trash

      You have to confess/repent after all

      Hello and good-bye Master of the Court ,

      corrupt judge consumed by greed,

      suffer the wrath of the people and I

      Die (眠りなさい<-- ie, "Sleep/Die" from Gift)


      Hey Mother, you're

      the one (female family member) who raised me herself,

      I was born in the abandoned house in the forest

      I didn't know the face of my father

      Hey Mother, Father's

      gone mad in vain

      He's convinced that doll's (hey) my half-sister

      She's already

      sank to the bottom of the ocean long ago

      He only has

      one daughter

      and that's me


      Hey father, look at me

      Look at me

      as well


      Hello and good-bye・・・good-bye

      my Father

      Boss of hitmen (a hitman), corrupt judge

      Hey Mother, why

      did you love this person?


      This is really the end

      Let's finally end it,

      this story of sinful evil (sinful story of evil)

      Good-bye


      Sinful man, Now confess/repent

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    • Someone's got a translation on Nico now as well and they put the same thing almost. Funny enough I saw atleast one comment that thought Nemesis was Gumillia.

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      Well Gally does have an elphe daughter with what we can assume isn't an Elphe mother. So i guess he had an elphe parent

      If you mean Michelle, I don't know what you're referring to when you say we can assume her mother wasn't Elphe. Absolutely nothing has been stated about his wife at all; since Michelle is an Elphe and Gallerian is a blue-haired Marlon, I would say it is reasonable to assume that he married an Elphe woman. On the other hand, if Nemesis is his biological child then we could also assume he had Elphe blood in him. But, then, it's entirely possible she was adopted as others have speculated, a parallel to Lemy. 

      Personally, I'm okay with saying Nemesis is his daughter without specifying biological or adopted, and maybe we put in a disclaimer about how we don't know how he and Ma have this blatantly Elphe daughter. 

      Where is the English name noted, by the way?

      I'msolatetothepartyguys

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    • Octofan wrote:

      Where is the English name noted, by the way?

      I'msolatetothepartyguys

      In the PV, actually!

      At the 1:27 mark, you can see "Satan's Revenge" scrolling accross the screen in the background, along with "Muzzle of Nemesis" and "Code Name: Eight Eight Eight Eight...". At the 2:21 mark, a similar thing happens with "Judgement of Corruption", "Mammon's Court" and "Pere Noel: First Santa Clause", so I think it's safe to assume "Satan's Revenge" is MON's English title.

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    • That sounds like sound logic to me. Satan's Revenge would work out imo and I noticed the name's appearing with JoC and Mammon's Court too so I think that parallel is a strong piece of evidence.

      I can live with us avoiding the specific mention of what kind of mother/father relationship they have to Nemesis, at least til the album comes out and we get it's (hopefully) existing booklet.

      There's also the SDS article's sections. Since not all the light novels are out yet, we can't really predict how things will play out. We're getting Gift avi's later this month but it may be a while before a JoC light novel comes out.

      How would you guys want to handle the character list, as Misstress pointed out? Personally, I'm up for just repeating some characters between tabs, using their respective song avi's whenever possible (for now at least). After all, these are still two distinct stories, even if they overlap imo.

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    • I agree that it's more like an overlap of stories rather than each being part of the same story, but of course it may depend on the novel's character listing eventually, and if there's more of the story of Wrath following Gallerian's death (such as the Leviantan Civil War and its aftermath mentioned in the Nemesis poem)

      For now I'd say make a separate listing for Wrath and making repetitions between tabs. (Although on that note, I suppose Ziz is going under Josephine's precedent as to whether or not it gets a mention as a character, so Wrath is only going to have the Lover in its section since Nemesis can have her own article.) 

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    • Random proposal that we change Jis tamia to Ziz-tamia

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    • 67.65.248.159 wrote: We aren't sure he had the Venom Sword. if he did, that would make her lover Nyoze.

      Mm. My bad, then. Her lover had something that Gallerian wanted. Have we reached that conclusion?

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    • Oh, wow, that's a good point.

      It didn't even come to mind when I saw "Ziz-san" in the PV

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      Random proposal that we change Jis tamia to Ziz-tamia

      Check my reply up above:

      Servant of Evillious wrote:
      As an add on, decided to look into Ziz a little more. I can confirm that "Jis" (Jizu) in Jis Tiama is the same spelling as it (ジズ jizu). I'm not sure on the "Tiama" part still (ティアマ) but it's something.

      Ziz-san/Mr. or Ms. Ziz might be a nickname for the octopus' species Nemesis or someone else gave it. 


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    • Seems like that if she named it Ziz-san the species should be named Ziz Tiama.

      It's like when I named my Teddy bear Beary. I had 0 imagination much like young Nemesis when she got Ziz.

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      Seems like that if she named it Ziz-san the species should be named Ziz Tiama.

      It's like when I named my Teddy bear Beary. I had 0 imagination much like young Nemesis when she got Ziz.

      That's what I was thinking. Either way, the spelling match and Ziz-san name make it clear. Unless someone wants to debate it, we will make the name change (and probably change our octopus image to that one).

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    • Actually, now that Muzzle has confirmed the identities of its character in TLR as well, I think it's safe to assume the character on the cover is Nemesis and that we should use the earlier posted avi. Any objections?

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    • Nemesis doesn't appear to die on-screen. There was a lot of clues and implications in the PV especially her acting like the Master of Hellish Yard (her name was mentioned in the PV). Is it also safe to assume that she may have the golden key in her possession? It is confirmed to be a Wrath song after all.

      Maybe we'll find out in the album that can tell us more, though I was thinking that "And the Girl Went Mad" may clear the confusion since it is another song sung by GUMI.

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    • HellishYardxxx wrote:
      Nemesis doesn't appear to die on-screen. There was a lot of clues and implications in the PV especially her acting like the Master of Hellish Yard (her name was mentioned in the PV). Is it also safe to assume that she may have the golden key in her possession? It is confirmed to be a Wrath song after all.

      Maybe we'll find out in the album that can tell us more, though I was thinking that "And the Girl Went Mad" may clear the confusion since it is another song sung by GUMI.

      Yeah, it's an interesting position for the Master to be in. For now, we shouldn't try to associate them though til the album comes out. Nothing really definite there.

       Is it also safe to assume that she may have the golden key in her possession? It is confirmed to be a Wrath song after all.

      I say yes, simply because all the characters featured in each song is one possessed by one of the Demons of Sin. Even if she didn't use the Golden Key, she could just have it in her possession or have come in contact with it at some point.

      HellishYardxxx wrote:

      Maybe we'll find out in the album that can tell us more, though I was thinking that "And the Girl Went Mad" may clear the confusion since it is another song sung by GUMI.

      Considering half the songs in the album are sung by GUMI, we're likely to at least get some clarification from them on events, if not from a supplementary booklet (please mothy....).

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    • When I was listening to the song again for the PV illustrations, I had a lot of thought in mind (I'm not assuming):

      1. Code Name: Eight (reference to VII. Sniper) : Her outfit does resemble Gumillia's in TLR.

      2. Pere Noel: I. Santa Claus: Sounds like Irina who may still be alive...

      3. Ziz-san: Elluka used a pink one, but the octopus is blue. Gumillia did use it to help get rid of the flames in Held's Forest.

      4. Gallerian and Nemesis: I always thought that they would exist in the same timeline before the PV.

      5. One Year Ago: This scene is similiar of how Gumillia was forced to kill her lover, but set one year ago. It sounds like history is being repeated: Gumillia killing her lover and now Nemesis doing the same thing. I can't say they are both the same person. 

      6. Two gun shots: This is like TLR. Considering TLR song is getting a Muzzle Version.

      7. Nemesis's mask: Like MOTHY's with red nails.

      8. Gallerian's House on Fire: Ok so it was Nemesis who set Gallerian's house on fire referring the flames of wrath he is facing.

      9. Scene where Nemesis makes a smiliar hand gesture as MOTHY and Gallerian: Like MOTHY's in mockery of Gallerian's greed. They was she talks is like MOTHY before condeming him to Hell.

      10. Gallerian's refusing to hand over his fortune: he said the same thing to MOTHY after he died.

      11. Pere Noel: First Santa Claus; Mammon's Court; Judgement of Corruption: Irina in Gallerian's body or Gallerian copying? (I'm not sure)

      12. Gallerian and Clockworker's Doll: I think Gallerian has a mental disorder.

      13. "Sleep Forver": Reference to Gift of the Princess who Bought Sleep.

      14. "Master Ordered Her" (Gallerian): It's either Irina's in his body or Gallerian copying. 

      15.  Memory/Thirteen Years ago: Gumillia and Michaela were reincarnated there. If this scene was set 13 years ago and Nemesis was born in a deserted house (Moonlit residence) in the forest (Held's) and had that octopus as a kid... mothy did an excellent job screwng our minds up. I was thinking she may be Gumillia's reincarnation.

      16. Five Years Ago: Wait what? Michelle/Clockworker's Doll is Nemesis's half-sister? Ok so we now know that Nemesis was the one who killed the real Michelle, not Ma. Nemesis's origins is started to get more interesting, calling Ma her mom and Gallerian her father...

      17. MOTHER: HER was highligted in red and Ma was there. Ma do you really have HER?

      18. Going to Hell: MOTHY sent him to hell. Nemesis = MOTHY??? I guess killing him wasn't enough.

      19. Ma x Gallerian: They had a love child together?

      20. Nemesis Sudou (Codename: Eight): Servants claim that MOTHY has the Golden Key, but not clarified. Wrath is still out there.

      21:Miku as Michelle Marlon, Margarita, and Clockworker's Doll: Hold on! Margarita? Isn't she dead?

      Once again, mothy screw our minds up.

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    • I think you're a little confused here...

      Gumillia never had a lover and killed her. TLR is about Nemesis, not Gumillia. It was never about Gumillia.

      And the Pere Noel person is Gallerian this time, and it looks like he's copying Julia.

      Everything else <o< Kinda all our thoughts I guess. I don't know what you're referring to Margarita for, she didn't show up except for the sinner lineup at the end.

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    • We've got a cross-fade for Muzzle of Nemesis on Nico now. There's something about a Black box at the beginning.


      http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24191829

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    • Currently, I wouldn't even say it's Pere Noel.

      Currently, we've seen Gallerian referred to as "Mr. Pere Noel" but it's possible "Eight" was his only hit man (or woman in this case) working for him. We have no idea if Gallerian's part of another criminal organization or not.

      Either way, here's the list of articles that shall be affected by this song release:

      • Lover (minor character for SDS list; Wrath section)

      Unless I am missing any, these should be the only articles affected by this song's release and most info changes will be soley Appearances related. I will be unlocking the relevant articles so that they may be edited by registered users only.

      For images, though any images are welcome, anyone who can acquire 720 or 1080p quality would be greatly appreciated (why not have the best?).

      If you are uncertain on any assumptions you may be adding to articles, please bring your questions here so we can discuss it.

      I thank everyone who's contributed to this thread and helped make this filtering process much easier; please keep the same tact and consideration with your edits.

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    • DaughteroftheforestCourt1 wrote:
      We've got a cross-fade for Muzzle of Nemesis on Nico now. There's something about a Black box at the beginning.


      http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24191829


      I believe the text is "the boy's end is called "punishment"" followed by "the key to the black box is now in her hands..."

      I'm glad to hear Master of the Hellish Yard sounds so good. I enjoyed the previous two so my only disappointment is it seems to lack an instrumental.

      From the sounds of it, Blink/Flicker/Whatever is sung by Kagamine Rin. The others are a variety of GUMI songs.

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    • Wait in Last Revolver didn't she mention that "Santa-san" gave her the revolver as a gift with the order to kill her lover? doesn't that seem a bit suspicious? like maybe Gallerian wanted her to commit wrath?

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    • 115.147.101.137 wrote:
      Wait in Last Revolver didn't she mention that "Santa-san" gave her the revolver as a gift with the order to kill her lover? doesn't that seem a bit suspicious? like maybe Gallerian wanted her to commit wrath?

      That's assuming that (a) Gallerian gave her the vessel of wrath and (b) That he'd have some gain in having her possessed. I can maybe see the former but the latter's a bit hard for me to believe, personally.

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote:
      DaughteroftheforestCourt1 wrote:
      We've got a cross-fade for Muzzle of Nemesis on Nico now. There's something about a Black box at the beginning.


      http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24191829


      I believe the text is "the boy's end is called "punishment"" followed by "the key to the black box is now in her hands..."

      I'm glad to hear Master of the Hellish Yard sounds so good. I enjoyed the previous two so my only disappointment is it seems to lack an instrumental.

      From the sounds of it, Blink/Flicker/Whatever is sung by Kagamine Rin. The others are a variety of GUMI songs.


      Yep, it's Rin Append Sweet? It's either warm or sweet, sounds more like sweet to me :|

      I'm glad Master of the Hellish Yard sounds so good as well, and I'm interested in how this all ties in with Allen and the black box....

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    • For one, mothy's created a playlist version where all his uploaded songs are in more of a chronological order, mostly to help fans who are new and aren't sure how it all fits into The Daughter of Evil.

      Re_birthday is, for obvious reasons, placed last right after Capriccio Farce. Depending on the speculative when Master of the Hellish Yard takes place and what it's about, I can think of a few random speculations as to why it would tie to the box.

      I think Wordplay is used at the introduction to the crossfade too so it's possible a song like Blink is another CL song and ties directly into the theater. You never know.

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    • Maybe it has something to do with the process of how vessels awaken???? but since we really don't know what "awakened" means it's just a wild guess

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    • 115.147.101.137 wrote:
      Maybe it has something to do with the process of how vessels awaken???? but since we really don't know what "awakened" means it's just a wild guess

      Yeah, we were under the impression the Doll had already awakened, but it seems her being a human-sized person is literally just in Gallerian's perception (I am already laughing at the thought of the Lunacy scene from Ma's perspective) and the doll actually awakened sometime afterward.

      However, given Miniature Garden Girl and Evils Court, we know whatever the awakened Doll is, she's most definitely had a consciousness far before awakening. It makes really begin to wonder if she's the Demon of Sloth.

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    • Gallerian has a wife and daughter who has nothing to do with Ma and/or Nemesis, I seen the subs on YouTube and it's proving that Ma is the foster parent, and the freak accident was now confirmed to be the work of the said sinner, either by accident or on purpose that remains to be seen, I watched it four times and I still can't confirm what transpired "FIVE YEARS AGO". >.<

      Plus Mothy said TLR wasn't canon, and look what happened! IT'S FREAKING CANON AND NOT PART OF THE SLOTH ERA!!!! Gallerian-San is stirring up a second Pere Noel, he's more mental than usual because of the doll, and the "HER" hi lighted in "Mother" when Ma shows up further speculates her identity of being either Elluka or Irina in Kayo-San's body.

      Mothy is the biggest troll ever!

      -Tomboy Jessie

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    • So far we hard some of the lyrics of each song. For the new ones, what do they say in English?

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    • Jessie, you are gravely mistaken if (a) you thought The Last Revolver was confirmed non-canon by mothy. My announcement was pretty clear we were pulling all info related to The Last Revolver because we didn't have enough evidence to prove canocity or the interpretation of said canocity, and that it wasn't us saying the song was non-canon.

      And as has been listed in the song's trivia for quite a while now (to make sure we got the exact quote), mothy said it wasn't part of the Seven Deadly Sins series. And what do you know? It isn't.

      As much as we all love to call mothy a troll, he's not outright lied to us about info, as you are making him out to have done.

      Also, I don't know what fan-subs you've been reading, but the above discussion has demonstrated that Ma's motherhood as ambiguous and no one can say with certainty whether or not she actually mothered that child (save for mothy).

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    • The Crossfade's sounding good so far. My two cents on the new songs?

      • "Master of the Hellish Yard": An exposition song, just like those of all the Masters. Subtle but necessary plot progression will probably ensue. Also sounds really awesome.
      • "Muzzle of Nemesis": You guys already know my opinion on this one.
      • "The Last Revolver (Nemesis Version)": Nothing seems to have changed, actually. It does seem to have a subtley different instrumental, though.
      • "And Then the Girl Went Mad -End of a Moonlit Night-": From the title alone, I get the feeling it'll have something to do with the Original Sin. Just a feeling. Sounds kinda sad, too.
      • "The Journey of Two Mages ~Longwall and Watchman~": I love the jovial sounding tempo X3 Who's willing to bet this one will involve Elluka and Gumillia somehow? That's what I think.
      • "Blink": Sad and creepy sounding. Also gives me SCP-Foundation related mental images from the title alone.
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    • Welp, on top of his regular my list and his now "chronological" playlist, he made another one which changes the descriptions again with a brief description of what the song portrays in the series.

      Unlike his other ones, this one outright states Heartbeat Clocktower's year as 990, Muzzle's as 983, and TLR's as 982, though it still keeps Regret Message as "5??".

      Some of the description choices are interesting though, especially Capriccio Farce.

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    • Nemesis has a lot in common with Lemy:

      1. Raised by single mothers at a young age

      2. Trained to kill without remorse

      3. Given codenames

      4. Infamous serial killers

      5. They acquire a vessel of sin

      6. Twisted and manipulated by their own parents

      7. Skilled, deadly assasins, 

      8. Joined a criminal organization

      And some degree with Ney:

      1. Hired to kill under the orders of their parents

      2. Kill their own parents 

      3. Had half-siblings (this remains unknown in Nemesis's case)

      She also has some things in common with Gumillia:

      1. Given code names that are the number 8 (VIII. Sniper & Codename: Eight) It's interested that this song is released on the eighth month on the eight day

      2. Same race, similar looks

      3. Lives in Held's forest in the Moonlit residence under a Luka character's care 

      4. Joined a criminal organization 

      5. Can use Ziz-tiama (it's unknown if Nemesis possess any magical potential)

      6. The characters they were familiar with represent Megurine Luka.

      Her actions are similar to MOTHY:

      1. Hand gesture

      2. Offering

      3. Fire background

      4. Wore a mask

      The PV and Nemesis are a combination of a lot of things that are familiar.

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    • I don't remember Gumillia ever using a Very Amazing Octopus ever. I think you may be forcing that one too hard.

      You can draw parallels with a lot of characters. Some of them are going to be coincidence or due to sharing Vocaloids.

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    • I forgot to mention that she also has smiliarities with Kayo Sudou:

      1. Same last name 

      2. Never died on-screen (Nemesis's fate is unknown)

      3. Lower class citizens

      4. Moms are being mentioned

      5. They're both killers

      6. Got possessed by demons of sin

      7. Never got caught

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    • 8. Killed their lover.

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    • "Gumillia helped her master conjure a large rainstorm to douse the flames, using Elluka’s Very Amazing Octopus." 

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    • HellishYardxxx wrote:
      "Gumillia helped her master conjure a large rainstorm to douse the flames, using Elluka’s Very Amazing Octopus." 

      I'd argue that's more of a joint effort to sacrifice the baby ziz tiama, but I'd be nitpicking.

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    • All right, I believe these are what's left of articles that require editing in some fashion:

      • Lover (minor character for SDS list; Wrath section)

      Many of these are only small edits or fixes but some do need some more extensive work done to them, especially Ma and Gallerian.

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    • While I made the plot for THe Muzzle of Nemesis it is a confusing one so i'm not sure what to do so i'll just keep translating

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    • Hey what about Michelle?

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    • There's plenty of PV info we'll have to transcribe and put in a blogpost for the translation compendium. With the album forthecoming, having it all on-hand to reference would be helpful.

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    • I must say to HellishYard that there was no confrimation of "living in the Moonlit residence". There's a possibility it could be the abandoned house where the Lucifenian Resistance started.

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    • Triuberit wrote:
      I must say to HellishYard that there was no confrimation of "living in the Moonlit residence". There's a possibility it could be the abandoned house where the Lucifenian Resistance started.

      I believe it's safe to say those are the same places and we've been under that assumption for quite a while:

      When Elluka, Michaela and Gumillia/the Resistance used it, it was 500 years old. When Gallerian bought it, he found two skeletons there while it was being demolished, hence the theater's graveyard

      I'm citing Prelude to Forest and Epic of Evil: The Daughter of Evil Fanbook/Wiegenlied of Green here. 

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    • I've seen an interesting theory. Mainly that the Hell scene in JoC wasn't actually Hell, but Gallerian's own insanity interpreting the confrontation with Nemesis that way. The set-up is too similar.

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    • 67.65.248.159 wrote:
      I've seen an interesting theory. Mainly that the Hell scene in JoC wasn't actually Hell, but Gallerian's own insanity interpreting the confrontation with Nemesis that way. The set-up is too similar.

      My only doubt to that is some of the details. Even while Gallerian was imagining his "daughter", his pose/actions were still virtually identical in the PV.

      In JoC, he's physically grasping onto the Master of the Hellish Yard and "whispering in her ear", which looks nothing like what we're shown in the Muzzle PV.

      Gallerian's answer is definitely identical to what he tells the MotHellishY though so there's always that possibility.

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    • I called it hours ago on chat

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    • Askandyoushallrecieve

      BEtter quality for you my love(not really my love)

      You wanted a better quality pic?
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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      Snip

      I did want a better quality image but I kinda uploaded one a littler earlier. XD

      Regardless, we now have an appropriate image representing the Leviantan Civil War.

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    • Also can I just post a theory to why Gallerian didn't think Nemesis was his daughter?

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      Also can I just post a theory to why Gallerian didn't think Nemesis was his daughter?

      It's part of the discussion regarding a song included in an upcoming album so go ahead.

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    • I think servy forgot to include mothy in his editing list :P

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    • I think that after the first pere noel fiasco Irina hogged Germaines body for a longer time. She stayed out of Enbizaka Because she wouldn't want to confuse people when they saw two Meikos. After Gallerian got married to a Meiko, Irina did the frickle frackle with him in germaine's body and had Nemesis(after or before he had Michelle with his wife). She then took Ellukas body and became Ma.

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      I think that after the first pere noel fiasco Irina hogged Germaines body for a longer time. She stayed out of Enbizaka Because she wouldn't want to confuse people when they saw two Meikos. After Gallerian got married to a Meiko, Irina did the frickle frackle with him in germaine's body and had Nemesis(after or before he had Michelle with his wife). She then took Ellukas body and became Ma.

      Nothing has been offically confirmed. I'm sure that a Marlon and a Beelzenian wouldn't make Elphe babies. 

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    • Neither will snakelanders and marlons

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    • This is a complete wild guess but who's willing to bet that Margarita's "gift" is made out of the shavings from the Golden Key?

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      • raises hand*
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    • 115.147.101.137 wrote:
      This is a complete wild guess but who's willing to bet that Margarita's "gift" is made out of the shavings from the Golden Key?

      I can see it. Still, since Gift is already a deadly poison when Prim and Presi uses it, I can't see any reason to have Golden Key shavings on top of it, especially since she has A LOT of people to kill for an entire town. You may want to pursure your own theories more in this thread since it has to do with the upcoming light novel.

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    • Has anyone thought about the fact that Nemesis might not be Gallerian's biological daughter? Assuming MA is the one who told her (as MotHER) it could be one big lie.

      Also, Nemesis is a bit of a hypocrite. She caused the death of Michelle and her mother, causing Gallerian's grief and assumably his insanity.

      Also, I think MA knew Nemesis was gonna sic Ziz-san on the boat, thanks to her line in one of the epiloges that originally made us think she caused the accident.

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    • DaughteroftheforestCourt1 wrote:
      Has anyone thought about the fact that Nemesis might not be Gallerian's biological daughter? Assuming MA is the one who told her (as MotHER) it could be one big lie.

      Several brought it up here so we're trying to avoid making any explicit statement that Gallerian and Ma are the biological parents. Could be one, both, or neither. I'm leaning towards her at least being related to Gallerian,

      Also, Nemesis is a bit of a hypocrite. She caused the death of Michelle and her mother, causing Gallerian's grief and assumably his insanity.

      Personally, I think it's too hard to tell if she was fully aware of the situation, if at all and whether she was the one doing it. For all we know, the PV's just showing her happening to play with Mr. Ziz at that time and she learned afterward. Too many holes in the situation imo.

      Also, I think MA knew Nemesis was gonna sic Ziz-san on the boat, thanks to her line in one of the epiloges that originally made us think she caused the accident.

      See my previous post. I wouldn't damn Nemesis just yet. Praefacio essentially stated a powerful mage would be needed to control such an octopus. Ma would be the logical choice for that. Unless Ma found some other method or extended her "authority" to Nemesis through her magic, I think it's too up in the air with how it's presented.

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    • Well, the fact Nemesis raised Mr. Ziz, it helps a lot for control it.

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    • Adept-eX wrote:
      Well, the fact Nemesis raised Mr. Ziz, it helps a lot for control it.

      And I can live with that, if the explanation is good. After all, if say Ma knew there was some "bonding" capability with the ziz tiama that could make it loyal to someone, I can imagine Nemesis being able to command ziz to do something like attack someone. But considering how vague the PV and song is, I don't think it's safe to assume she knowingly told the octopus to kill her half-sister just yet.

      On another note, you guys thinking it
      NemesisConceptArt
      was scar tissue were right. Ichika's concept art shows the full scar under her hair. She definitely shot herself in the temple.

      She might be immortal or have some healing power, but it wouldn't be the first time a character's been written to miraculously survive a shot to the head: "Rage is a hell of an anesthetic."

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    • The diffrence is that Evillious is carefully written and thought through(possibly) because that what the fandom needs. Games like that don't have to be well done because all the fandom cares about is the gameplay.

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    • TEORIA CONSPIRATIVA 201-92C ¿De donde saliste Nemesis?

      Al tener MA el cuerpo de kayo sudou y ella estaba enamorada de un kaito (no expecifica si lo estaba pero bueno), MA reflejo inconscientemente ese sentimiento en Gallerian y tuvieron una aventurilla juntos y de ahi nacio Nemesis, pero Kayo sabia que gallerian no la reconoceria por tener el pelo verde por lo cual no lo sabia.

      Y haria una duda ¿por que rayos tenia el pelo verde?... pues a veces hay salto de los rasgos en un familia, probablemente uno d elos padre de gallerian era elphe por lo que su hija Nemesis tenia ese color de pelo.

      Claro que si eso fuera real, Nemesis podria ser una HER si MA fuera su madre biologica y tambien tendria potencial magico por lo que podia controlar a Ziz-san.

      Eso explicaria el nombre de nemesis, ya que su analogo en la mitologia romana es la envidia y ella es hija de la persona que tiene el verdadeo cuerpo del pecador de la envidia.


      -Evah Miyano-

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      The diffrence is that Evillious is carefully written and thought through(possibly) because that what the fandom needs. Games like that don't have to be well done because all the fandom cares about is the gameplay.

      Because our major antagonist inexplicably misplacing her vessels of sin between story arcs isn't sloppy writing? ;p

      Not to say a a game developer lauded for its rpg series with story and characters is necessarily deserved, but it'd be unfair and, imo, a little ignorant to say something like that.

      But I digress. This isn't the place to discuss these things.

      200.4.225.78 wrote:
      Snip

      An interesting theory.

      Giving it a brief search, there's definitely a tie with Invidia being a name sometimes attributed to the Greek goddess Nemesis in Roman mythology.

      The fact Ma is also associated as the "replacement" for the awakened vessel of Envy, as well as her seemingly using the real body of Kayo Sudou, definitely strengthens that tie imo.

      I think these things are worth one or two trivia bullets. Does anyone disagree?

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    • Well, with Nemesis possible origin the Mallerian ship (should it be called that?) gets stronger. Also, A friend and I are working on a translation of the crossfade's songs, but it's difficult without the kanji... I'll upload what we have later...

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote:
      Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      The diffrence is that Evillious is carefully written and thought through(possibly) because that what the fandom needs. Games like that don't have to be well done because all the fandom cares about is the gameplay.
      Because our major antagonist inexplicably misplacing her vessels of sin between story arcs isn't sloppy writing? ;p

      Not to say a a game developer lauded for its rpg series with story and characters is necessarily deserved, but it'd be unfair and, imo, a little ignorant to say something like that.

      But I digress. This isn't the place to discuss these things.


      200.4.225.78 wrote:
      Snip
      An interesting theory.

      Giving it a brief search, there's definitely a tie with Invidia being a name sometimes attributed to the Greek goddess Nemesis in Roman mythology.

      The fact Ma is also associated as the "replacement" for the awakened vessel of Envy, as well as her seemingly using the real body of Kayo Sudou, definitely strengthens that tie imo.

      I think these things are worth one or two trivia bullets. Does anyone disagree?

      I agree! Let's have the extra trivia bullets!

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    • DemonDamian wrote:
      Also, A friend and I are working on a translation of the crossfade's songs, but it's difficult without the kanji... I'll upload what we have later...

      I can imagine. Take your time and do your best!

      To move this suggestion right along, anyone against putting a trivia about the Muzzle song being released on the eighth day of the eigth month?

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      Neither will snakelanders and marlons

      From what I see based on characters with confirmed parentages, it's very unlikely that Gallerian and Ma's affair will have Elphe kids unless their partner is an Elphe.  I do have two theories in mind regarding Nemesis's orgins:

      1. Ma went to bed with an Elphe guy and raised Nemesis herself

      2. Ma adopted Nemesis at a very young age and stretch the truth a lot (which parallels Julia adopting Lemy at a very young age)

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    • There is more thing that makes it certain that Nemesis was Mothy and Gally was halucinating.

      Something
      when this red text flashes up. It means Money makes the laws in hell. THE SAME THING MOTHY SAID TO GALLY WHEN HE MET HER FOR THE FIRST TIME!
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    • Excuse me, but did nobody image that Ziz-san was just a child-pronouncing form of Jis Tiama ?

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    • JIZU. it's a z so no, it's the official and not jsut child slur(if that's the word for it)

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    • The original translator who used "Jisu" didn't do any research for the Japanese text and wanted to avoid us calling it a "Jizz Tiama" for the obvious sexual connotation. The "ji" sound sometimes is used to simulate a Si or Zi sound (for whatever reason).

      A quick google search of the term brings up articles about Ziz and recognizes "Jizu" as the most common spelling for it in katakana. We'll be sticking to "ziz" as the translation.

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      Snip

      Ninja brought that up a while ago when he wanted to decifer it's meaning. The idiom's translated in English as "Money's the best lawyer in Hell" as typically seen used by fan subbers.

      While I'm still skeptical on a few points, I'm sure those of you theorizing that are going to enjoy this:

      The playlist mothy made that I linked you all earlier has an interesting description pattern.

      In the case of DoE and SoE, it's "Lucifenian Revolution" and "Lucifenian Revolution. The truth."

      In the case of JoC and TMoN, it's "Leviantan Civil War" and "Leviantan Civil War. The truth."

      Something to think over while we await the album.

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    • I don't really care about what it means(I'm a translator, I should) But the point is, there's to many paralellss(uuuhhhhTT^TT) for it to be separate events

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    • Ok so appearently, the acurate translation would be either "Money rules Hell" "Even the rules of hell are twisted/bent by money"

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      Snip

      It's an idiom so the translation can very, it's sometimes more loosely translated as simply "money talks". There's a similar idiom that a golden key can open every door, ironically enough.

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    • To add to the earlier suggestion regarding Nemesis' codename Eight and the song's release date, she also confronts Gallerian during the Civil War.

      The civil war takes place in August (ie, month 8), roughly eight months after she kills her lover in EC 982.

      It might be a coincidence but anyone against putting this in trivia?

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    • Done! here is our translation by ear. My friend went along and subbed the PV in Spanish, though. Again take some of these sentences with a grain of salt (especially the monster one in Blink).

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote:
      To add to the earlier suggestion regarding Nemesis' codename Eight and the song's release date, she also confronts Gallerian during the Civil War.

      The civil war takes place in August (ie, month 8), roughly eight months after she kills her lover in EC 982.

      It might be a coincidence but anyone against putting this in trivia?

      So many 8/8/8 stuff. I feel like it can't be a coincidence. I agree with trivia.

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    • DemonDamian wrote:
      Done! here is our translation by ear. My friend went along and subbed the PV in Spanish, though. Again take some of these sentences with a grain of salt (especially the monster one in Blink).

      As far as I'm concerned, we shouldn't take any of these into consideration for articles til we have the full songs (and lyrics) available. Anything else is working off partial information and/or speculation. Thank you so much!

      Still, listening to the song, I am still hearing Kagamine Rin. Anyone against us listing her as the singer in our Blink article?

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    • None here, I can definitely hear Rin singing.

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    • I approve of making the eights trivia, it seems too unlike a coincidence. Same for Invidia/Nemesis.

      I also approve of listing Blink's singer as Rin. I'm crossing my toes (it's too hard to type with crossed fingers) that this will be a Waiter song. I will throw some more badgers in celebration if this turns out to be the case.

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    • Well, I was just combing through some forums on the Japanese side and I think I found my favorite line:

      "There is too much room for interpretation・・・"

      On another note, a theories sprouting out that Ma's "MotHER" is short for "Master of the Hereditary Evil Raiser(s)". A neat idea, if nothing else. You never know though with mothy. He's had plenty of mother puns and wordplays in this series.

      There's plenty of discussion (and lots of walls of text) dissecting the song.

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    • Could crossfades be added to external links on pages for albums with one?

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    • GallerianTest
      I added an image for us to update Known Residents sections so we aren't using Gallerian the Friendly Ghost. I made it our standard 2x3 in case anyone wants to also have it be used as Gallerian's infobox image.

      I'm personally neutral. I like both and think both have pros and cons.

      Also, the Muzzle PV has a nice timeline set up for us. One of it's years is EC 549 and roughly states it's the war of the Snakeland people.

      The year is just about the timeframe Heavenly Yard gives us so that would make it the year of Chartette's death (age 74-5) and the year Sickle flew by to witness the battle.

      The fact it and the New Four Horsemen Incident were put in the PV highlights their importance imo. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to make out anything past that, so we've only got some of EC 609 transcribed and nothing after that.

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    • Back in facebook I made a little trivia that could be included in more than one article:

      In The Last Revolver, Nemesis uses a Smith & Wesson Model 60 and in The Muzzle of Nemesis, she uses a Colt Python.

      There's a extended trivia in Ichika's blog regarding the first weapon, while the second one was pointed out in Nemesis's concept art from Ichika's twitpic and her twitter as well.

      So, worth considering? :3

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    • I am completely for this, though I think we should term it as they are "based on the design of" the weapons as we don't know if those models are necessarily called that in the Evillious universe (just in case).

      I think it'd be a neat curiosity for TLR, TMoN, and Nemisis Sudou's article.

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    • "Based on the design of"... yeah, sounds good to me :)

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    • HellishYardxxx wrote:
      Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      Neither will snakelanders and marlons
      From what I see based on characters with confirmed parentages, it's very unlikely that Gallerian and Ma's affair will have Elphe kids unless their partner is an Elphe.  I do have two theories in mind regarding Nemesis's orgins:

      1. Ma went to bed with an Elphe guy and raised Nemesis herself

      2. Ma adopted Nemesis at a very young age and stretch the truth a lot (which parallels Julia adopting Lemy at a very young age)

      Or Nemesis is a ghoul child (if procedure somehow survived Leviantia destruction)

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    • I thought that she was using the same weapon in both songs :S But ok, I guess it's a good trivia then.

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    • Blink mentions a clockwork(Zenmai)

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    • All right, so to summarize, the trivia suggestions are:

      • Tie between Nemesis and Ma due to the name the name "Invidia" being attributed to the Greek goddess Nemesis in Roman mythology.
      • The numerous Eight ties showing up in regards to The Muzzle of Nemesis' release date (August 8th) and its contents (Levianta Civil War in August, roughly eight months after The Last Revolver).
      • Nemesis' revolvers in The Last Revolver and The Muzzle of Nemesis being based on the designs of a Smith & Wesson Model 60 and a Colt Python respectively.

      I see SHV and Lemmings in agreement for the first two. I'm okay with all of them, and Maxus and Sloth are fine with the last. Anyone else?

      Unless anyone wants to disagree about hearing Rin, we'll add her as the singer for the Blink article.

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    • RIn is already up but i agree with them all

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      RIn is already up but i agree with them all

      Seems I need to be doing my job better.

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    • I don't know if someone already said this (if so I couldn't find it), is it possible that Gallerian was simply hallucinating when he thought that he was in Hell being judged by Master of the Hellish Yard...? (Sorry if this post doesn't belong in the thread, I decided to post it here since I saw all these people being redirected).

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    • We've disscussed this, and i'm not sure what we came up with

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    • Okay, thank you! ^^

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    • It's a good theory and might be true, but it's best we wait for the album first to clarify.

      Songs like Escape of Salmhofer the Witch also gave different impressions to fans and didn't take the Original Sin Story -Act 1- booklet into consideration.

      My only major issue with Nemesis=Hellish theory is some of the specifics, which could always be chalked up to differences between older and newer PVs.

      The possibility is there though.

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    • My head is hurting from all these speculations, and I doubt that Gallerian and Nemesis are related, like Marlon and Sudou, there's no relations between those surnames.

      -Tomboy Jessie

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    • Blink is starting to sound Clockwork Lullaby esque. Perhaps a response to Re Birthday, or as Lemmings said, the Waiter song. I would love to see a song for every Theatre inhabitant so if it does turn out to be Waiter that's 5 out of 8 (6 if Re Birthday is Irregular's)

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    • CranberryClockworker wrote:
      Blink is starting to sound Clockwork Lullaby esque. Perhaps a response to Re Birthday, or as Lemmings said, the Waiter song. I would love to see a song for every Theatre inhabitant so if it does turn out to be Waiter that's 5 out of 8 (6 if Re Birthday is Irregular's)

      Personally, I think it's going to be CL 7. mothy never indicated (to my knowledge) when CL would be over so I think it's a strong possibility he'll release another song for it.

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    • Regarding the "Hallucination theory":

      My biggest problem with this is that in his meeting with Nemesis he's shown comforting his "daughter," and it's implied that is his perception of the moment, it being somewhere around the time he hugged Michelle in JoC. If Muzzle of Nemesis was his meeting with Hellish, why wasn't his "daughter" in Hell with him in that moment of the song? It's not like in his madness he can't even see Michelle anymore--he is interacting with Michelle. And his comforting her in Muzzle of Nemesis is after Nemesis made the offer to him.

      Regarding the trivia, I approve of them all ouo

      Regarding Blink, I like the idea that it's CL7 (someone long ago pointed out the twelve numerals on the gear in Chrono Story as maybe indicating how many songs were in the series.)

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    • Before anyone asks, I'm locking Nemesis Sudou to admins now to prevent any more mishaps from random editors.

      We've finished with the detailed referencing on the article so the major editing portion should be done at this point.

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    • I don't really have much to say besides I approve of everything being suggested. Really hoping out for another CL song with this new album~.

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    • Octofan wrote:
      Regarding the "Hallucination theory":

      My biggest problem with this is that in his meeting with Nemesis he's shown comforting his "daughter," and it's implied that is his perception of the moment, it being somewhere around the time he hugged Michelle in JoC. If Muzzle of Nemesis was his meeting with Hellish, why wasn't his "daughter" in Hell with him in that moment of the song? It's not like in his madness he can't even see Michelle anymore--he is interacting with Michelle. And his comforting her in Muzzle of Nemesis is after Nemesis made the offer to him.

      Regarding the trivia, I approve of them all ouo

      Regarding Blink, I like the idea that it's CL7 (someone long ago pointed out the twelve numerals on the gear in Chrono Story as maybe indicating how many songs were in the series.)


      Octo, considering Gallerian is hallucinating, he doesn't need to make perfect sense. Hallucinating people aren't 100% logical.

      That being said, the Nemesis PV shows him holding the doll. Maybe the screen transitioning with him holding Michele is what Nemesis thinks he's doing. She couldn't possibly know what was going on in his mind. Maybe he was holding the doll, but was really thinking he was in hell seeing the "evil judge wanting to take away his money". And it's not hard to stretch this theory to that, since his house was on fire.

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    • Seven Heavenly Virtues wrote:
      Snip

      Gonna disagree on account that the PV shows us the delusion vs reality to Gallerian. The pose is also the exact same if not extremely similar so I don't think you can argue what he imagines isn't what's being seen, at least as the PV portrays it.

      Considering he hugs and "whispers" to Hellish, I'm going to remain skeptical until we're given a firmer confirmation.

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    • What if "the burn corpse of the daughter" wasn't refering to the doll but Nemesis

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    • Honestly, I think that at this point the "Nemesis is Hellish and Gallerian is hallucinating" theory should be taken as "Ma is Irina and Elluka combined" theory: Too little information to approve any of them.

      I don't exactly agree with the theory either. To me it just seems like it parallels what happened in the Hellish yard and just shows how greedy Gallerian is to not only refuse once, but twice the same offer that would save his life (or death?). But at the same time, I think it somehow makes sense, so I'll just be in the neutral side.


      Regarding the other issue, makes sense to me if Blink is CL7. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

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    • Something crossed my mind. For "Journey of Two Mages", did the "demonic sword" mentioned in (Daniel's translation of) the cross-fade happen to sound like 刀?

      When I think of "demon sword(s)", I think of the Venom Sword and the Twin Swords of Levianta. The New Four Horsemen Incident lacks much elaboration still outside the Fanbook and we still don't know much about Gumillia/Elluka's involvement in the event.

      It's possible this GUMI song is meant to help fill in the gap of what happened post-Story of Evil during this incident.

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    • I just realized... We have wrath, the one thing we've waited for so long, the one thing we wanted.

      WHAT ARE WE SUPOSED TO DO NOW?!

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    • I'll say what I said in the last thread that made a big deal about this:

      Considering there are so many important unanswered questions all across the story, I'm not sure why this question is being asked.

      And I'll ask that you speak for yourself.

      I'm glad the song came and is here now, but there is plenty of other stuff I've been awaiting and would've gladly taken in its place for this season. I've ultimately been here awaiting Evillious stuff, not the last SDS song.

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    • Excuse you, where is my OSS Act 3? If that's all you wanted out of EC, just find a new fandom, there's plenty out there.

      TO add my theory on the two mages song, I think it will involve the Twin Swords as well but it might just be a plot device to set up later developments with Gumillia. It could focus more on hers and Elluka's relationship while they're getting involved in these things.  oOo Each verse could have them in a different area, their journey being broader than just to Divine Levianta orsomething.

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    • Maybe. It would definitely be quite a short "journey" if it ended with them crossing a wall into Levianta and stayed there.

      In terms of Gumillia's character arc; it would definitely be nice to see the song cover more development with her, if that was what it was about. Unless she's Mothellishy and/or somehow tied into Girl Went Mad, she'd not get a lot of development outside of (so far) Praefacio imo.

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    • I don't mean "that why is was here for" It's just that the fandom has been going for it. "give us wrath" was the biggest request. And it's here. It just feels like he won't be pressured like that again. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But the fans will probably not be hyped for any other song like this.

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      What if "the burn corpse of the daughter" wasn't refering to the doll but Nemesis

      I'm sorry to interrupt but I just noticed no one seemed to really pay attention to this post. And again, I'm sorry if we have a source that clearly states that the daughter in question is the doll but, if that is not the case, then THIS JUST MAKE SO MUCH MORE SENSE ! I mean, I know Wrath hyped me a lot and I may forget something here, but doesn't this give you the "I've just been struck by lightning, I'm fine, thank you" feeling ? Doesn't it feel just the mothy-esque, so right ?

      It could just fill the blank of the "what the hell (sorry) happened the Nemesis ?" question, and explain why people would actually bother to notice the "daughter" in the burnt house (I mean, it makes more sense to report two humans corpses than one and a little doll).

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    • SianaLuuna wrote:
      Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      What if "the burn corpse of the daughter" wasn't refering to the doll but Nemesis

      I'm sorry to interrupt but I just noticed no one seemed to really pay attention to this post. And again, I'm sorry if we have a source that clearly states that the daughter in question is the doll but, if that is not the case, then THIS JUST MAKE SO MUCH MORE SENSE ! I mean, I know Wrath hyped me a lot and I may forget something here, but doesn't this give you the "I've just been struck by lightning, I'm fine, thank you" feeling ? Doesn't it feel just the mothy-esque, so right ?

      It could just fill the blank of the "what the hell (sorry) happened the Nemesis ?" question, and explain why people would actually bother to notice the "daughter" in the burnt house (I mean, it makes more sense to report two humans corpses than one and a little doll).


      But then we have a little hole... how did Nemesis die? She was a trained assassin, so it's quite likely she escaped. I don't think she'd simply let herself be burnt.

      Maybe the video that could give more insight into this is the "Master of the Hellish Yard" video. If it shows Nemesis as we see in her PV and after Gallerian's death, chances are she's still fine and unleashing her wrath.

      There's also the fact this Nemesis character was inspired on Akuno_p's "Nemesis'" poetry. Nemesis could have become a war hero for killing Gallerian, and then a dictator of Levianta, destroying everything. Furthermore, if Akuno_p is to follow his poem entirely, Michaella ("the tree") is surely to die for good.

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    • The biggest plot hole with the "corpse of the daughter" being Nemesis is that I doubt anyone would know she WAS his daughter, and it didn't seem Gallerian acknowledged her as such.

      As well, in her concept art by Ichika, that's pretty obviously NOT a graze there. That's either a bullet hole or a bullet embedded in her skull.

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    • But just because Gallerian didn't acknowledge Nemesis as his daughter, doesn't mean he didn't know she was his daughter. It seems like to me that Gallerian was using her in a similar style that Prim was using Ney. 

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    • Yes, but I find it more likely for him to refer to the doll as his daughter than Nemesis. Especially since he couldn't seem to differentiate between the two. Buuut that's my two cents.

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    • Ultimately, we can't say with absolute certainty that who Nemesis believes to be her mother and father are her actual biological mother and father.

      Who told her who her parents were? Ma? Yeah, she's reliable.

      And daddy Gallerian seems pretty attached to his family, especially after his daughter becomes the only survivor of a terrible accident (in his mind). He'd seem like the type that, if he knew he had another daughter, he wouldn't be so cruel to her.

      And then there's what other users have brought up: blue + black = green doesn't make sense.

      Unless one of them's got Elphe genes somewhere in their blood, it's hard to believe Nemesis was their natural spawn together. Even less so since mothy's been pretty consistent with explaining why characters look like other characters.

      tl;dr too much ambiguity at this point to say either way.

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    • I think too that maybe the Nemesis poem is canon, since in one scene in Muzzle we see Nemesis and behind her a lot of people, It could be not literal but be more like : "Lets burn his house and don't let him escape, I'll make him repent for his crimes", but in reallity she just killed him in revenge, and then she was condecorated as a war hero like Germaine was for capturing Riliane, if she became a dictator then probably was because she was still under Wrath's influence, but maybe that wont be canon, until the album's booklet comes out, it'll be just a theory.

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    • Very true. The pain of mothy saying something has "no significance". Ambiguity~

      If the poem is assumed to be 100% true, it would also strengthen the idea that she's the Master of the Hellish Yard, based on what little we've heard from the crossfade.

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    • Super late answer, I know, but the words I heard referring to the "Demon Sword" were most certainly "魔剣" (Maken), so, unless Mothy decides to use unconventional kanji (very possible, though), it doesn't seem like the song will be using 刀 in that part.

      On another note, adding fuel to the Nemesis poem being canon, one of the lines we know from Master of the Hellish Yard is "The time has come to turn it all into nothing", which mirrors one of the lines from the poem quite nicely.

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    • DemonDamian wrote:
      Super late answer, I know, but the words I heard referring to the "Demon Sword" were most certainly "魔剣" (Maken), so, unless Mothy decides to use unconventional kanji (very possible, though), it doesn't seem like the song will be using 刀 in that part.

      Thanks for the clarification. My dictionary says this literally means "cursed sword(s)" and individual kanji means demon/evil influence and sword/blade/saber.

      The Twin Swords use 双剣 so they share the same last kanji. Based on that, I'm feeling confident that it is referring to the twin swords but we'll see.

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    • ...So did anyone notice that, in the PV, Gallerian is, at one point, surrounded by blue fire? Like, the kind of fire the Spoon produces?

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    • Yes, but that's not the weird part of the PV. We know Gallerian is possessed by the Demon of Greed. What's really odd is that NEMESIS is surrounded by the same blue fire after we see her with Ziz-san.

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    • 67.65.248.159 wrote:
      ...So did anyone notice that, in the PV, Gallerian is, at one point, surrounded by blue fire? Like, the kind of fire the Spoon produces?


      It might be stylistic effect like it seems to be in JoC.

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    • 67.65.248.159 wrote:
      The biggest plot hole with the "corpse of the daughter" being Nemesis is that I doubt anyone would know she WAS his daughter, and it didn't seem Gallerian acknowledged her as such.

      As well, in her concept art by Ichika, that's pretty obviously NOT a graze there. That's either a bullet hole or a bullet embedded in her skull.


      The bullet she has in the skull comes from Last Revolver (as shown in the PV). She went all the way to shoot herself, but somehow she the bullet didn't kill her and she healed (as it says in the PV, "I couldn't die").

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote:
      [...]

      And daddy Gallerian seems pretty attached to his family, especially after his daughter becomes the only survivor of a terrible accident (in his mind). He'd seem like the type that, if he knew he had another daughter, he wouldn't be so cruel to her.


      Well, more specifically: if he knew he had another daughter, he probably wouldn't let her become a trained assassin brainwashed since childhood.

      I also doubt he was the one who revived Pére Noel, and even more that he was the head. Chances are that MA either heavily influenced him to do so, or simply did it all herself disguising herself as Gallerian; I mean, no one knew "Santa's" identity anyway.

      How did Nemesis know? Well, it was probably a random woman with dark, long hair that "accidentally" let it slip.

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote:
      Snipping for my sake Servant of Evillious (talk) 13:53, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

      this might be stretching it a bit but what if Nemesis is a "ghoul child"?

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    • It's possible imo, though we'd still need that answer on what exactly is a ghoul child (unless it's just mothy's fancy term for "just an artificially made human being").

      If she was, I'd bet she'd be Ma's creation, similar in effect to homunculi or androids in other fantasy series. If she was biologically engineered, that may also explain her failed suicide attempt.

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    • I think it depends RE: Nemesis being his child and his treatment of her. Gallerian is by no means an entirely moral man, nor was he before his family died. He had no attachment to Nemesis, nor would he if she grew up without him in her life. There is a world of difference between "child I happen to be the father of because of DNA or biology or whatever" and "child I helped raise and thus have an emotional attachment to."

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    • 67.65.248.159 wrote:
      Snip.

      Now I have to disagree. While I wouldn't call Gallerian a Saint, his portrayal in Praefacio shows a good-hearted (albeit a bit stingy) guy who was living a happy life with a good social status and wonderful family.

      It's not until the "terrible accident" that he becomes obsessive over his "surviving daughter" and absolutely ruthless in his pursuit to collect the vessels and propogate his own wealth.

      Unless there was a pretty good reason for him to knowingly have a daughter and then not be part of her life in any way all this time, I have a hard time believing he's been aware.

      Of course, you could argue there was an affair and Gallerian either had the child with Ma or gave up the child to Ma because he was ashamed/fearful of what occurred. Nemesis does specifically refer to Michelle as an "older sister", implying she came second.

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    • Dany approves all trivia. 

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    • All right. With that, I'm going to give it a pass to add these trivia to their respective articles.

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote:
      67.65.248.159 wrote:
      Snip.
      Now I have to disagree. While I wouldn't call Gallerian a Saint, his portrayal in Praefacio shows a good-hearted (albeit a bit stingy) guy who was living a happy life with a good social status and wonderful family.

      [...]

      Of course, you could argue there was an affair and Gallerian either had the child with Ma or gave up the child to Ma because he was ashamed/fearful of what occurred. Nemesis does specifically refer to Michelle as an "older sister", implying she came second.

      And even then, you could argue he would probably have supported Nemesis financially. While he was stingy to others, he's shown to shower "Michelle" (doll) with material wealth – even when possessed by the demon of Greed!

      If he shows this behavior to "Michelle" even while possessed, I don't see why he'd be materially supportive of Nemesis when not possessed.

      There's also his relationship with MA – the supposed mother of Nemesis. Even with his wife long dead, no one looking and MA clearly hitting on him, he outright rejects her as a lover. You'd believe his heart would be at least a little shaken he had lost everything and MA was his previous affair. It would be the opportunity to star a new family officially. 

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    • Well, who knows? We know that Gallerian's behavior became "irregular" as he was possessed by the demon of Greed. I don't think that his actions are supposed to make much sense since he's so delusional at that point.

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    • Sloth Sinner wrote:
      Well, who knows? We know that Gallerian's behavior became "irregular" as he was possessed by the demon of Greed. I don't think that his actions are supposed to make much sense since he's so delusional at that point.

      Well, it's more like the possession slowly eroded his sanity. Chances are he was starting to go crazy when he first saw the doll – but he hadn't completely snapped yet.

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote:
      It's possible imo, though we'd still need that answer on what exactly is a ghoul child (unless it's just mothy's fancy term for "just an artificially made human being").

      If she was, I'd bet she'd be Ma's creation, similar in effect to homunculi or androids in other fantasy series. If she was biologically engineered, that may also explain her failed suicide attempt.

      Could it be possbile that Ma (assuming she created Nemesis), was aiming for Nemesis to become the sinner for wrath so she could easily gain acess to the key and awaken the vessel?

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    • about the whole "Where's the Golden Key thing?", well we know it can transform into a knife, could it become a gun too?

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    • 98.27.243.118 wrote:

      Could it be possbile that Ma (assuming she created Nemesis), was aiming for Nemesis to become the sinner for wrath so she could easily gain acess to the key and awaken the vessel?

      Sounds like an unnecesarily convoluted plan, one that very easily back-fired. At least AB-CIR had no magic power and had to rely on someone like Carlos to do his (her) dirty work. Ma doesn't have an excuse like that to stop her from finding the vessel herslef, especially since she already has Gallerian.

      We also don't know what exactly an awakened vessel is or how/why they happen.

      Also, was checking mothy's tweets and he admits that the August 8th posting date was a complete coincidence. It seems he didn't realize it til shortly before uploading the song.

      https://twitter.com/mothy_akuno/status/497717840175067137

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    • Servant of Evillious wrote:

      98.27.243.118 wrote:

      Could it be possbile that Ma (assuming she created Nemesis), was aiming for Nemesis to become the sinner for wrath so she could easily gain acess to the key and awaken the vessel?

      Sounds like an unnecesarily convoluted plan, one that very easily back-fired. At least AB-CIR had no magic power and had to rely on someone like Carlos to do his (her) dirty work. Ma doesn't have an excuse like that to stop her from finding the vessel herslef, especially since she already has Gallerian.

      We also don't know what exactly an awakened vessel is or how/why they happen.

      Also, was checking mothy's tweets and he admits that the August 8th posting date was a complete coincidence. It seems he didn't realize it til shortly before uploading the song.

      https://twitter.com/mothy_akuno/status/497717840175067137


      He also uploaded the album's crossfade at 8:00am the next day XD

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    • Adding to the above, mothy's added a background to Muzzle. I can't save the image with my current rig but with the zoom, we can see six bullet total, the closet one having "avaritia" on it. I assume the other five have the other Deadly SIns.

      Closer to the left is roses/flowers and a clock with roman numerals on it.

      It'll make nice trivia for the album page, if nothing else. I assume the bullet in the gun barrel in the background says "Evillious TMN Album".

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    • EC-all
      And I'm going to be double posting, but kudos to our buddies at the Russian EC Wiki for their efforts to make the rest of the timeline as visible as possible (by looking at each frame at 1/20th of a second, no less).

      From what I can make out, I see the following years:

      • 597
      • 610
      • 611
      • 7(4?)6
      • 842
      • 878
      • 978
      • 983

      Most of these seem to have clear meanings (based on what I can make out). 610 is the Lemy incident, 611 is the duel of Merigod, 842 is the Enbizaka Murders, 878 is when the USE is formed, 978 is when Michelle and Gally's wife dies, and 983 is the Leviantan Civil War and therefore the events of the song.

      The 597 and 7?6 years are very curious though. The first clearly says ライオネス. The other one makes my eyes bleed so I can't say. Anyone able to transcribe all this barely coherent text to make out the rest of it? We can add it to the blogpost for our records.

      Edit: I think I'm making out  ライオネス焼失事件 for EC 597; 焼失 means "to be destroyed by fire" according to my dictionary, roughly making it "Lioness Burning Event/Incident". Maybe this somehow ties into Caspar and his resemblance to the Marlon Royal Family?

      Edit 2: I am pretty certain the 8th century year is "746". I recognize some of the kanji but can't find any matches. For the katakana at the beginning, I checked all our existing locations and one seemed to match.

      I traced over it and ended up with _イステリア (first and second to last I'm not sure about, and the middle two may be slightly different). Depending on that, it may be "_isuteria" or "_izuderia". If we can get the kanji, maybe that could help?

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    • I think I can see a "ム" and a "ユ" but I'm not sure, could it be: "ウィステリア" (Wisteria)?

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    • Might be. A user at the fb group made it out as マイスティア (Maisutia) and the rest as が独立宣言, stating this place declared independance. The best way to confirm or deny this would be another source corraborating the characters. I wonder if we'll see these dates in the album in any capacity.

      TMoNTwitterBackground
      Edit: Forgot to add that we now have the background image on twitter saved and uploaded.
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    • Those bullets are made of gold and one of them has "Avaritia" written on it.

      I'm calling it, the bullets are made from the Golden Key.

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    • are you suggesting she melted the tiny tiny key to make six bullets and the somehow turned them back into a key?

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      are you suggesting she melted the tiny tiny key to make six bullets and the somehow turned them back into a key?

      ...Maybe.

      I dunno. It's MAGIC!(?)

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    • maybe the key decided, "F*** it, its the ninehudredth century" and turned itself to a revolver instead.

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      are you suggesting she melted the tiny tiny key to make six bullets and the somehow turned them back into a key?

      Assuming the bullets are the connection with the key, it's probably the endless magic powder that comes from it, Misstress.

      Of course, we don't have enough info yet as to what was the wrath vessel here. It could be the gun, the bullets, the bullet that got stuck in Nemesis' head, or even the mask that appears out of nowhere when she decides to go after Gallerian.

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    • ...Or maybe it's just a key that she happened to hold onto herself during the entire time and she got possessed by it afterwards. The PV doesn't necessarily have to portray the vessel of sin.

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    • Sloth Sinner wrote:
      ...Or maybe it's just a key that she happened to hold onto herself during the entire time and she got possessed by it afterwards. The PV doesn't necessarily have to portray the vessel of sin.

      Sloth, it's possible it was just the key; however, I think it's unlikely, since the key is known to shapeshift when the owner feels enraged.

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      are you suggesting she melted the tiny tiny key to make six bullets and the somehow turned them back into a key?
      So this is a "tiny, tiny" key? 
      Kachess and the Key

      "Tiny" key

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    • Well Hellish refers to it as a tiny key. But then againnnnn. Evil's theatre is called a tiny theatre. Is there some chance that in elphe "tiny" means "big"

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    • Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote:
      Well Hellish refers to it as a tiny key. But then againnnnn. Evil's theatre is called a tiny theatre. Is there some chance that in elphe "tiny" means "big"

      If the key can shapeshift into a golden dagger and a kitchen knife, it would be a piece of cake to change size and shape from a big key to a small key.

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    • If the key can shapeshift does this mean that it can change size? 

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    • HellishYardxxx wrote:
      If the key can shapeshift does this mean that it can change size? 

      Why not? Size would be the least of its concerns!

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    • This info might help.

      So, I was watching Judgement of Corruption in NicoNicoDouga. After some while, Gallerian died and blah blah MOTHellY. Now, what is interesting to note is that when the word "master of the hellish yard", a name flashes in red at the bottom of the screen. You know what's written? Nemesis Sudou.

      I am highly positive that Mothy himself wrote this, considering the fact that he wrote some comments in The Muzzle of Nemesis.

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    • So he wrote the quotes of the sinners?

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    • 119.95.92.202 wrote:
      Snip.

      I believe we had a similar problem in the past with claims of mothy writing comments on his videos when it wasn't actually him.

      I am not in the know on NND so I can't say whether or not it's his or any of the many other users inconsistently writing their commentary in the videos.

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    • Given the horrid Engrish, i'm guessing it's his coments also i noticed a shadow of a coment in the balck field but i couldn't read it

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    • Since the album's officially out, I'm sure everyone's scrambling to find an online source talking about it because everyone's up at 4 AM.

      Only a small note I can add at this point. It's subtle, but you can see the USE emblem being used in the green background for the tracklist of the album.

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    • <O< Ooh I am assuming that could mean the majority of the songs take place in the USE? Or else the main song Muzzle of Nemesis taking place there could be enough. 

      Can't wait for someone on our side to get their hands on that album >u<

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    • Six bullets for six sins, plus a gun that equals Wrath.

      It kind of reminds me of the book Un Lun Dun. There was the "UnGun", a gun that could be loaded with anything.

      What if each bullet was part of a different vessel of sin?

      A venom sword bullet, a glass bullet, a mirror bullet, a bullet that's part of the clockworker's doll, a bullet forged from the leftover parts of the Twin Swords, and a spoon bullet.

      What if Nemesis shot Gallerian with the bullet for Greed?

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    • It's an interesting concept, but I don't know what the point would be oOo my idea is that she shot him with bullets made with shavings of the key so that the gunshot would definitely kill him, if Gallerian's possession is anything like Venomania's. 

      Whatever the case, though, I think the sin's names on the bullets and display in the PV is just supposed to be symbolic, at the very best signifying wrath's involvement with each of the events displayed, if it does in fact play a role in each story.

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    • Mothy tweeted some comments regarding every song in the new album, enjoy:

      • 新譜収録曲についての話。1曲目「master of the hellish yard」の一部歌詞は史実の人物の言葉を引用しています。気になった方は色々調べてみるとこの曲についてより深く理解できるかもしれません。
      • 2曲目の「ネメシスの銃口」はこの前動画もUPしているので、こちらも併せて見ていただければ幸いです。 http://nico.ms/sm24189059
      • 3曲目「最後のリボルバー[Nemesis Version]」は以前発表した曲のリファインバージョンです。ネメシス関連曲ということでそちらのアレンジやmixに少し寄せています。

      • 4曲目「そして少女は狂いだした―終末月夜抄―」は前3曲よりも少しおとなしめの、淡々とした曲調にしてみました。GUMI曲ですがちょっとだけ例の双子も出てきます。
      • 5曲目「魔道師二人旅~長壁と番人~」。小説ではおなじみの二人ですが、彼女達が主軸となった曲って今までなかった気がしたので(エルルカ単独ではあるけど)作ってみました。歌っているのは弟子の方です。
      • 6曲目「またたき」。タイトル通りの短い曲です。というかこの曲は無駄に長くする必然性を感じなかったのでこうしました。ですが色々な思いが詰まっています。
      • 7曲目「針音ノ時計塔」。アルバム中最も激しく、残虐性よりも燃え要素を出した曲。萌えじゃなくて燃え。
      • 8曲目「プラトーの花」はヴェノマニア関連曲にして27日発売の「眠らせ姫からの贈り物」にも関わってくるので改めて聞いてみてね。
      • 9曲目「チミドロスイッチ」からはエヴィリオスとは直接的な関連のない曲となります。色々と狂った曲ですが、あまり深く考え過ぎずに聞いていただきたいです。
      • 10曲目「僕らを見ていた」。アルバムの最後を飾る曲です。動画やコンピCD版の音源よりも下コーラスの音量を上げています。曲自体のキーを高くし過ぎたのを中和するためです。こういう静と動の入り混じった曲をもっと作っていきたい。
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    • So from what shards of glass I can pick up from google translate

      1: It mentions of quoting someone /coughnemesiscoughrepentcough/ and could be understood if you listen to the other song(s)

      2: (psst this songs out go listen)

      3: Surprise it was Nemesis

      4: it says something about not like the other three so maybe its Gumillia

      5: something about Elluka and Gumilia together

      6:  "It is a short song as a title. Was doing this song because I did not feel the necessity to be unnecessarily long or rather. But various think is clogged." (so yeah google got drunk so I dont know anything about this)

      7: he said moe twice (probably kaai yuki or something)

      8: involved with sloth novel and is the "Vu~enomania related song." (seriously google)

      9: "It becomes the song not directly related to the Evu~iriosu from "Chimi mud switch". It is a tune that was crazy a lot, but I would like to hear without thinking too much too deep." So not directly related to Evu~iriosu. Crazy tune. Dont think deep when you listen.

      10: looks like he adjusted the volume of the chorus

      Conclusion of Tired Henchman "works" with google translate: I just wanna listen to the songs.

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    • MaxusFox23
      MaxusFox23 removed this reply because:
      Moving to the News and Announcements board.
      06:18, August 18, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • I'm just gonna leave Mothy's youtube here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSmHk3xH3nkWqF0nm9z2-2Q

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    • The Henchman of Wrath wrote:
      So from what shards of glass I can pick up from google translate

      I used Babelfish instead. Here's what I got:

      1. "some lyrics of "master of the hellish yard" quoted words of historical figures. Became concerned about the way things look about this song may understand more deeply." So Hellish is quoting historical figures? Or is mothy doing that? Sounds interesting either way.

      2. "See muzzle Nemesis is UP even before video, so would appreciate look also here." Henchman was right about this one!

      3. "Revolver last [Nemesis Version] is the リファインバージョン of the previously released songs. Nemesis-related songs that your arrangement or mix a little enabler." How many "Nemesis-related" songs have you had? Did you write another one we weren't aware of?

      4. "And the girl began to go mad-doomsday Moonlight extract--' is tried with a matter-of-fact tone than the previous three little bis of the. GUMI song that comes out is just a little case of twins. " "Twins", you say? And a "moonlit night"? Why, could that possibly have something to do with the Original Sin Series?

      5. "Keeper-and Mage beautiful-spacious-longwall. That is familiar in the novel two girls was spindle made the song didn't ever since (エルルカ alone is that though). Singing is a disciple." I'm taking that to mean that this song will be about Elluka and Gumillia and reenacting a scene from one of the novels. That should be pretty interesting :D

      6. "It is short as the title song. So I felt no necessity to waste long said that this song is like this. But it is packed with various thoughts." Sounds fascinating.

      My conclusion...same as Henchman's. I just wanna listen to the songs.

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    • To clarify:

      1) Song quotes historical character (not sure if rl history or Evillious history).

      2) The song's up, go watch it.

      3) Wanted to remix the song so it would be more Nemesis-related.

      4) It's a GUMI song but the incident of the twins also appear a little bit (not sure whether literally or thematically).

      5) mothy wanted to make a song with Elluka and Gumillia together. The apprentice is the singer.

      6) He didn't want a long song title. Still, various ideas/emotions are packed into there.

      Most of this makes good trivia but that's it. By relation though, the tweets 100% confirm Elluka and Gumillia appear in the song so that's good to go for appearances.

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    • I'm glad we'll be getting a Gumillia related song now! ^_^

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    • I know some fans were complaining that mothy didn't use GUMI enough but four new songs using her vocals seems like plenty now. XD Gumillia could also use a presence in the series, song-wise.

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    • Hello, everyone! As you know, I can't speak Japanese, so here's what I get from your translations and "translating" the content to fluent English (in italics).

      Please note that I just tried to make the lines a bit fluent so that they're easier to read; they not necessarily faithful translations. The most dubious "translations" of all are certainly the 4th and the 10th lines.

      1. Time to talk about the new songs! Some of the lyrics of Master of the Hellish Yard quote the words of a historical figure. If things do not make sense, you might be able to understand this song by listening to previous songs.

      2. Muzzle of Nemesis was released before the album! It's the second track of it. Watch it here: http://nico.ms/sm24189059.

      3. I have decied to improve on the original Last Revolver, so I remixed it. The remixed version is called Last Revolver (Nemesis Version).

      4. And the Girl Went Mad – End of a Moonlit Night is a Gumi song, but it is not related to the other previous three songs. Yes, it's a GUMI song, but identical GUMIs sometimes show up.

      5. The Journey of Two Mages: Longwall and Watchman will be familiar to people who know the novel. I felt that it was not until now that the main plot shifted to the two girls. This song is about Elluka alone, but is the apprentice singing?

      6. About the Blink song: the title is short because I didn't want the song to be needlessly long. Some people think this song talks about too much at once, though.

      7. Handbeat Clocktower is the most brutal song in the album. It burns with brutality.

      8. I tried to listen to Flower of the Plateau again to write the Gift from the Princess who Brought Sleep novel. The novel will be released on August 27th, the same date as Venomania's.

      9. Blood-Stained Switch is not directly related to the world of Evillious. It's a crazy tune, but don't think too deeply about it.

      10. I chose Watching Us to beautifully decorate the end of the album. I needed to turn on the volume of the chorus, as the one from the CD and video version was a bit too low. I did this to neutralize the song a bit, as it was too high-key. I want to compose more relaxing songs with static noise like this one.

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    • That makes four of these things. We have more than enough. No more after the above.

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    • This is random but I wish he'll make a Gakupo album next year. 

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    • Another off-topic note: I still want mothy to start using IA! :c

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