I think that was what people suggested at the time, because iirc it was shown alongside a tentative release date for what we later knew as OSS: Crime (and because it includes imagery from the symbol for Holy Levianta, just configured differently.) I don't know if it's been definitely confirmed, though.
Hello! I am Jadium, a Wiki Manager. I am here help this community and serve as a contact between full-time Fandom staff. I will be available for questions relating to the wiki, editing, social issues and maintenance. You are welcome to ask anything relating to the site.
If you have any questions about my role, please do go ahead and ask! If there is something specific you needed help with, or something that needs looked at, you are welcome to bring it to my attention! Nice to meet you, and looking forward to working with you.
Yes we were wondering if we could get some clarification on how the wiki is supposed to handle parts of Evillious that has mature/questionable content. Except for one song illustration (that's been removed from the article of the song in question to be safe) there's nothing graphically depicted in terms of sex or nudity, and the series doesn't usually depict graphic violence either, but it nonetheless covers a lot of dark and potentially upsetting topics (and there are some allusions to sexual content even if it's not shown or outright described.)
(I figure content warnings are a good idea anyway, but one of the things we were worrying about specifically is if we'd have to remove articles or article content to comply with TOU, since it seems like that's been happening on the Vocaloid Wiki. But it's not clear to us what the criteria for deletion is beyond the article dealing with mature subject matter.)
Thanks for replying! I understand the situation you are experiencing right now. I will have to ask for clarification if the mature content is strictly image uploads or actual text being descriptive? Or both? The quick answer is Fandom doesn't allow nudity in most cases, so if there are uploads containing nudity, they can't be uploaded. However, they can be censored if you are comfortable with that. If you want to direct me to some uploads as an example, I can censor those if you're good with that. As far as text content being descriptive, I will double check on that with the team if that is also part of the concern.
You're right in your apprehensiveness on content warnings. Those actually don't do anything. If something is violating Fandom's TOU, it will eventually be addressed at some point.
Most things are case by case basis though, so we can start here and I will address your inquiry with the team to get you an accurate standpoint on it. :)
O thanks for the response, also thanks for clearing it up with the content warning bit, I suppose that's just something we'll be adding for the sake of the readers then.
Well in terms of image uploads the only one that features actual nudity is this one that's part of a song featured here. Specifically the part with the upside-down lady. I'm personally fine with keeping it censored if that's all that's needed for it to stay, but not sure how other users would feel about that. There's also another song here that comes close? It's more that it's visually alluding to sexual acts, but unlike the previous song it doesn't outright show anything (albeit someone does get stabbed, I don't know if Fandom would care about artistic depictions of stabbings but that's depicted a few times elsewhere in this series too.)
There's also a few images that depict human remains like in this song and its accompanying novel, albeit they also aren't very detailed for the sake of discretion.
As for the text on the articles, yeah that's what most of us are wondering about. Our summaries don't go into gory details, but it nonetheless discusses sexual, violent, or potentially triggering content on occasion. The songs I linked, for example (the second one was deleted by the Vocaloid wiki.) If that's not the concern for Fandom, that's fine then, but we will appreciate you double checking!
Back with a response to follow up :) Apologists for the delay!
So first thing, content warnings are fine if you prefer to use them. They just wouldn't do anything if content crosses the TOU line. An example would be describing details of explicit sexual activity. However, something within the lines of "they had sex and teased each other" is acceptable. It just can't go into that explicit detail, even with a content warning. You can still apply them, however. Though, every thing is indeed case by case basis so we'll take a read at any story you might have concern over and we can advise on what to do from there. We won't do any deleting if something is too explicit, we'll work with you to tweak it to fall within appropriate bounds.
For the image "Plateau No Hana full" that is totally acceptable. The nipples are covered appropriately and there is no issue with hosting it. The lyrics to "The Lunacy of Duke Venomania" is also fine. Depictions of stabbing should be okay for the most part. Pretty much it comes down to "is this gore?" when questioning something. It can be subjective to a level but in most cases I would say it is allowed. There just can't be that full "yes we allow it" because then there would be a situation that comes up where a murder is described in great detail that makes you sick hahah.
Regarding human remains, would you be referring to photos like this? If so, this is also good and allowed.
Ahhh, this is exactly the kind of clarification I was hoping for, thank you so much! I think definitely if we have any articles that go against TOU (which, it sounds like we probably do not) it shouldn't be that hard to revise them to an acceptable level.
Outside of The Lunacy of Duke Venomania, the main story that raised people's concerns was Original Sin Story: Crime which features an example of unwitting incest. The book's summary hasn't been filled out yet so I can't provide that for you unfortunately, but we have updated the history section of one of its main characters, Adam Moonlit. So to clarify, a character (Adam) forms a romantic relationship with his long-lost twin sister (Eve) as part of a more involved plot to take over the country. Part of this involves him mixing his own semen into a substance that's supposed to artificially impregnate her to make sure that the children will be biologically his. Nothing about that process is shown in the book nor described in explicit detail here, but the actual mention of semen in the book kinda struck me and other people, so I used the phrase "genetic material" on Adam's page to be cautious. The specifics of Adam and Eve's relationship in terms of if they were active sexually also isn't shown or described in the book or here.
So, are we being overly cautious to worry about that? I suspect that this isn't the kind of thing that Fandom is concerned with, but I just want to make sure.
Regarding the Flower of the Plateau thing, thank you for the clarification on the upper-body nudity, but I'm also concerned about a part of that image that's a little lower down--it's easily missed, but it depicts a character's sexual parts (albeit stylized to look like part of a flower) while she's also groping herself.
I'm less certain if that would be okay to keep as is ^ ^;
Gotcha on the human remains and gore thing. For the picture, that's about as bad as it gets so glad to see we're fine there. For the gore, I don't believe anything is described in such detail, if not in the series then especially not in the articles.
Most of things that come up like this are going to be case by case, so I would be happy to pass along the story of Original Sin Story: Crime, when it is written to our community manager. I can say that you should write the story as it is, without trying to heavily alter it to the point it's no longer the story. General statements of inappropriate situations that give the reader an idea of what is happening, without the specific steps of how it's happening, is fine.
As an example, Adam Moonlit mixing his own semen into a substance that is meant to artificially impregnate, is general, and doesn't go into detail on how he is extracting or performing the impregnation. I will double check on the word semen to verify it's acceptable, but I'm pretty confident it is. It is often the nature and context of how certain words are used, rather than the words themselves. If the community feels uncomfortable with the word, it is within the community right to reach a consensus if they prefer "genetic material" :)
You aren't being overly cautious, it is good to keep your ears and eyes open. I always support inquiries to double check on things.
I did not notice that part of the image on Flower of the Plateau ahaha. I'll ask our community manager, but quite likely that may need censored unfortunately. It could be argued as artistic art, but those type of calls are above my level so I have listen to what my community manager directs on these things. If it does come down to censoring, would you be comfortable with that? It would only be covering up the depiction of her genitals and nothing else.
Hello! I'm sorry to trouble you!
There has been a debate in the Russian fandom over the name of Riliane
And a lot of people refer to your wiki, as this form of name is taken from you
Why did you decide that Riliane, and not Liliane, would be the best to write?
Indeed, in Japanese spelling the name sounds like リ リ ア ン ヌ, and the Japanese, in turn, spell the name Liliane
Sorry to bother you again!
So I think this could be worthy of a trivia section, but in the myths, Nemesis was the on responsible for Narcissus' death. Narcissus drove his suitors to suicide(he would literally give them swords and tell them to run them through themselves) and Nemesis as the goddess of retribution decided to punish him by cursing a pool of water so that when he saw his reflection he fell in love with it.(And then he wasted away by that pool)
Maybe it doesn't parallel EC Nem and Narci but I like that there is a form of connection.
I supse if Narcissus could get his own page maybe it could be brought up that his mythological counterpart was punished by nemesis
Or on Nemesis page it could be put as a curiosity like "In mythology, Nemesis was the goddess that cursed Narcissus to fall in love with his own reflection" and then something about how in Ec Narcissus seems to have a crush on Nemesis.
I have realized there are some interesting things about Nemesis and the other members of zeus and how it all sort of connects. Sorry for sounding like a conspiracy theorist here but there are some thing i think could be noted in connection to the greek myths.
Themis was a daughter of Gaia and Ouranus, Ouranus was also the created son of Gaia so Themis mother and father were also her grandmother and half-brother, Just like EC's Nemesis.
Heracles is noted for having wrath as his flaw, this was uncommon as most greek heroes were know for having pride being their main flaw. Connects to Racle beign a character in the wrath arc.
Helios is a god Heracles tried to take his anger out on. His other equivalent, Apollo was also the son of Zeus.
Dionysus helped Nemesis with one of her punishments (It's kinda complicated but basically a nymph had been toying with people's hearts So Eros asked Nemesis to do something and Nemesis told Dionysus to sleep with the nymph and leave her a single mother)
Eileithyia was the goddess of childbirth and was involved with helping to deliver most of Zeus' children. She was also one of Zeus' daughters.
Basically the only ones who haven't in some version been a child of Zeus are Narcissus, Nemesis, and Gaia.
Dionysus was not only god of wine, he was the god of rebirth. (It is also a complicated story with many diffrent versions but one is that he was originally the son of Persephone and Hades and got killed but Zeus saved him by placing his intact heart in a mortal woman. However because Dionysus was a full god he ended up completly waporizing her when he was reborn. It's almost like Irregular Adam.)
Nemesis was the queen of the Greek equivalent of Hell, Tartarus. This is because she was married to the god of that world, who was also named Tartarus.
Idk most of these seem like "hey this is neat" factoids more than trivia actually relevant to the specific characters who share these names. There isn't even a place to put most of these even if they were relevant trivia since they almost exclusively concern minor characters, and I'm having a hard time imagining how you'd word these.
At this stage, the only ones that I think could have been an intentional connection by mothy is the first one (the Themis one) and maybe the last one (that Mythological Nemesis was queen of a section of the Underworld where horrible monsters and the gods' enemies were imprisoned,) though I couldn't find a lot on that one from Google.
For the rest of them, the characters are so minor and have so little personal impact on the plot that I can't see most of these being intentional, so I'm gonna say no for now, they're not trivia worthy.
Here's some replacements for the lazurin trilogy. XXX
Oh and the user Riliane Lucifen and Angelica Schuyler are the same person on different accounts. She might move Wordplay over to her Angelica Schuyler account at some point like she did with the other two, so if she does I'll just replace the link with the reupload.
I can't really tell if the CL video is the original or the remix (leaning towards the latter), but that Wordplay video definitely isn't the original. (you can tell by the very last words, which have a radio filter over them which isn't in the original but is on the iTunes version)
Now, I know it was recently said that we shouldn't use fan pvs, but the one for blink is just images from the daughter of evil illustration story scrolling down the screen with like, pretty effects put on top. So I think it'd be alright to use it
It was already changed because I was given the go ahead. and I was pretty sure that we've been talking about is linking specifically to mothy's channel, while this one was on the php channel. mothy himself isn't going to see those views, and the whole point of switching to linking to his channel was to get his channel attention so he might start seeing the west as a viable fandom to market to.
If it was on mothy's channel then I'd be more concerned, but odds are people just aren't going to be able to find the video I linked on it's own, despite it being one of if not the only sub of that song that uses price's translation.
I didn't realize that the Handbeat PV we were linking to was an official upload. One of the points of linking to mothy's is to give him views, yes, but it's also because those videos are official uploads and are unlikely to ever be taken down or removed. In my opinion, the link should be switched back and I apologize for not realizing this at the time.
I think we discussed making it possible to link to more than one Youtube video on song articles with a new infobox or something like what they have on the Vocaloid wiki. When that happens we can prioritize videos with translations, but until then I think we need to prioritize videos that are official commercial uploads.
Alright I understand and I apologize for breaking the rules, I really was under the impression that it was just for mothy's official youtube page since I'd only heard it brought up after mothy made his page. (Edit to say that I swapped the video back to the php comix upload)
And I'd like to point out that we already have a fan pv linked for blink right now, this one in particular X
I only have one more to suggest for now. Most of the newer videos with updated translations use the scap/ossce audio or fanmade pvs (or both) so I'm probably just gonna have to fill in the rest myself :b This is for Heartbeat Clocktower X
Actually, I just went looking and it's not fanmade at all. It's from the Prelude To Forest album, which is the album that the song debuted on. albeit a bit shorter to fit the runtime of pv. you can listen for yourself here X if you scroll down it's the second audio post in the list
Like I said, it's not the album version, it's just the opening from the album version. if you listen they're actually quite different. Moreover, I think it's much more misleading to have outdated translations than to have 6 seconds of music that already exist in another version of the song.
I could swap out the audio fairly easily, but it's not my video. I'd need to get permission first and even so I'm not entirely comfortable doing it. But I will if it means I don't have to sub it myself. (if I'm being completely honest :b)
Your point regarding us using Dany's fanmade PVs is valid. It would be ideal for us to simply have videos consisting of static images with lyrics, although I understand that would result in more work for you, Tobi.
I propose that we implement Tobi's subbed fanmade PVs for now, and simply replace them with static image PVs later on. Personally, I'm fine with fanmade PVs as long as they're indicated to be so, which they are for Tobi's case.
The suggestions are going to be an extremely mixed bag from now on, since I'm working off of a list I made just looing down the song category. These were fairly easy to put together because I just needed to swap the audio from their ossce and scap versions, I imagine future requests are going to take a bit longer. Oh and I just have them unlisted now because if they get rejected I think I might just delete them (though I might be less inclined to do so for videos I had to actually make from scratch :b) XXX
So I've been working on images I can use for "and then she went mad" and "the song I heard somewhere. However, I'm a bit more tentative for "and then she went mad" b/c the background was made by mariogagabriel in this post X and I haven't gotten permission for it yet. He's given me permission to use his work before and to base new works on his work so there's no reason for me to believe that he'd say no. I just personally would like to wait until I explictly get permission to use it before I do. Worse comes to worst I'll change the background and ask for permission again.
Oh and there's two pictures for "the song I heard somewhere" because I liked both versions and I'm thinking I'll just have the sins fade in when they're mentioned.
We're allowing fanmade PVs as long as they use official art and aren't misleading; we've actually been using Dany's fanmade PVs for a while now. The point of all this is to link to PVs with Price's subs.
However, I'd still really prefer it if we just had static album covers for the subbed PVs, although I'm not sure if that's going to budge.
Misstress, if we don't link to any translation and someone can't find a version with price's translation then they're inevitably going to remember the version they put in their playlist more than whatever they read on the wikia that time they bothered to check out the translation.
Moreover, I've been making these static images to replace fanmade pvs. I think that it's harder to understand what's going on without any visual cues at all, and all I'm doing is picturing the main characters involved with the songs.
If you want to try subbing songs with just album covers then I'd be more than happy to have the help. I have a list of songs that need to be updated on a google doc and I could link it for you.
I agree with Misstress in that it's not really necessary to put the translations on the video. I don't really object though because I also agree that it's nicer to see the words as the music is playing on the video.
It's also not necessary in my opinion to make the images be anything other than the album that they appeared in, but I guess I'd be a minority in saying that as the song didn't originally come with visual cues it would be better not to add cues that weren't originally there. Of course I didn't really like the extra coloring emphasis on some of the subs either, so take my objection as you will.
I know this isn't what I usually post here but I have a suggestion for a new poll (even tho I don't know how to make them :b)
Now that all of the sinner's novels are out and the greed and wrath novels have had a few months for the hype to die down what if we make a poll asking which of the sinner's novels people like the best?
oh also I was just thinking and, would it be alright if I tried to make icons for mei and rin out of these pictures? It's weird for these two to have icons from their concept art while the rest of the mirokus use novel illustrations. These are also a higher quality than the concept art
I can't say I'm happy with the new avis. I'd rather they both be changed back for the following reasons:
For Mei's, everything is fine except for the fact that her face is turned way towards the side.
For Rin's, her head is way too big - the head should ideally be a little more than half the image's height, whereas for Rin's it is almost 3/4 of the height. There's also the fact that it's off-center.
I think the issue with Mei is debatable on whether or not it makes it less suitable than the concept art image. Her hair, both length and how it's parted, as well as her general face shape (which isn't that different from most others in Ichika's style) is recognizable even turned more to the side.
The head doesn't look terribly big to me, but I agree with it being off center. If there's no way to reproportion it, I suppose I won't fight changing it back to concept art.
I just had an idea that might work as a compromise. How would you feel about me cutting rin out in the picture that I'm suggesting and then cropping that edit to be more center and a litte further back? The background would be all white, but it's like that in the concept art as well so it shouldn't be much of a problem
Mmmm I could have sworn that we had an infobox image on one of our character pages which was edited to remove a face near the edge, but I can't find it or recall which character it was.
The actual subject and readers' idea of what they look like wouldn't be affected but I guess it depends on what the minimal editing rule is for whether or not that makes it okay. I can't argue too hard in favor, sorry ;w;
I think we should take this as an opprtunity as well to discuss linking , we've talked about changing from text to icons and fix the coding so that there is nothing if we don't have links, as well as expand to piapro
We've also talked about making it so it's possible to link to two youtube videos so that it'd be possible to link to say, mothy's upload of ma survival and a sub of it at the same time. And if that were possible then I think it'd also be nice if we could link to something like dailymotion so that we could link to subs of songs that are affected by the block that comes with world wide releases like seven crimes and punishments or the portrait glassred drew.
of course I don't know the first thing about coding so it's fine if we can't actually do either of those things
oh and, it's probably not worth making excuses for not working on this faster now, but this is a legitimate problem so it's worth mentioning at least. nico has been in economy mode for about a month, and what that means for me is that if I were to download anything from there now it'd be a lower quality than if I were to do it normally.
my downloader is set to automatically download once economy mode is over whether I'm on the site or not, but it hasn't been able to download anything at all. so I honestly have no idea when I'll be able to download songs again
weigenlied is also done now ! I've decided not to do the profiles that were made by (I believe) Nagimiso. mainly because what's there is either cut together very well or didn't have to be cut together at all
Additionally, if the wiki ever needs them, I also have all the publicity photos from Everlasting True Love (the Venomania musical) saved in Drive should anyone ever want to make an ETL page or add them to the character articles in the Misc section.
I should point out they are diffrent versions. The one you subbed is not the original song it's the revised edition. And if we're going to link to fanmade PVs shouldn't atleast the original picture be used?
I understand where misstress is coming from, but the reason I used the version on piapro and an edited image is because downloading from nico isn't an option at the moment. nico changed it's policy and essentially anyone who isn't willing to pay is going to be stuck in economy mode indefinitely, which also affects downloads.
so if I'd had tried to take it from nico the file more than likely would have been in 240p. so for the sake of the audio quality I used the free download on piapro, which didn't come with the original image.
I'd usually be fine with making another version for the wikia, but I can't reliably take anything from nico until they change their policy back or I get a job
oh I mean I personally wouldn't be opposed but a lot of my videos are album only songs, which we stopped linking to specifically because mothy has said that he doesn't want people passing them around online. so linking them at all would be going against mothy's wishes
I mean, I still think it's a good idea but it just won't work with everything :b like, mothy hasn't uploaded anything on his personal youtube account before muzzle of nemesis, so if we were to impliment it across the board that'd mean having no youtube link on those videos but then linking to my channel in the external links.
so basically, I'm not shooting it down, I think we should do it selectively or maybe tweak it. like having two youtube link sections? one for "official" and one for "sub" maybe. but that's just an idea :b
I tried adding a second YT link section in the song infobox template, but to no avail. I'm not a programmer. Can anyone step up to the task? Or perhaps we can get someone from the Vocaloid wiki to help out.
Sorry I've been gone for so long, my computer was broken for a few weeks but we're back in buisness now :b
I have a sub of heartbeat clocktower up now (X) and I'm talking to a friend who's into coding about helping us with the infobox template, though they won't be available for a while because of their schedule.
I'm still pretty sure that Michaelas nickname „Grüne“ means „the green one“ in english. „Die Grüne“ is a noun and it's just the term for a green girl. If it was a boy it would be „der Grüne.“ the color green just means „grün“ in german and it's an adjective.
I'm pretty sure this is correct because german is my native language.
I changed it back to "green one" as you might have noticed, I realized that I was wrong. Thank you for the clarification, however! My only experience with the term "grüne" has just been that it's an alteration of "grün", I didn't realize it was a noun in and of itself.
I wanted to discuss my reasoning for the edits on the minor characters page.
My main thing is that other joke names have been taken seriously in the past. My main one is “Tette Cetera”, because that name is at the end of the list, and it seems to be a pun based on “etcetera”. While I agree that those names are jokes, they were included in the PV, and so were other joke names like “Tette Cetera” and “Neruneru Nerune”. While those names are ridiculous, this series is filled with ridiculous names. Yes, they don’t appear in the novels, but neither does Shick Rock, Nainai Kyuuzu, Heil Goon, etc.
I hope that you understand my reasoning. I won’t undo the edit unless you say so. If you disagree, then I won’t undo the edit. Thank you for understanding.
The key thing is not "these names are too silly to include", it's "these characters clearly don't exist outside of these names being used to service a joke".
Tette Cetera and Neruneru Nerune are both terrible examples to compare because they both exist in the Venomania novel and have a small impact on the plot, with social status and occupations and everything. As for the others that don't show up anyywhere, their names are punny, but they aren't clearly just a vehicle through which mothy can spell out a secret message.
Yeah essentially what the anon said. The names are purely a means of putting a secret message in the PV. All the other "ridiculous" names we've included in the lists are just ridiculous because mothy likes his puns/can't Western names
I might not mind putting them down somewhere, but I think it's disingenuous to treat them as something more than joke characters (ones which all exist to service one joke), which is what happens when you give them a specific character history.
Hey, thanks for taking care of the spam/death threats left on my message wall. That was the user we've been trying to keep out via ranged blocks over on Vocaloid Wikia. She basically didn't like that I confronted her yesterday and pretty much unraveled and resorted to sending me death threats on other wikias and on my UTAU's twitter/email lol.