The problem is that the way the wiki currently handles "the other parallel" is deeply insensitive and has put actual Jewish people in the fandom at risk. If it has to be kept it should be mentioned as an absolute bare minimum thing of "Nemesis has some slight parallels to this as ruler of Fantasy Germany during Evillious WWII", or otherwise should be run by actual Jewish fans who can check the revised trivia point for sensitivity. The actual heavy parallels are still on the references to the atomic bomb, not on the WWII Germany parts, and changing it to the Axis Powers in general doesn't necessarily solve things or put the emphasis on the references that actually matter.
Also, since Octo brought it up, Fuehrer Bradley in Fullmetal Alchemist is the homunculus Wrath, not Pride, Pride is his son Selim Bradley. And Fullmetal Alchemist wasn't referencing WWII Germany either - while Hiromu Arakawa used Western aesthetics for the series, she was actually specifically inspired by the oppression faced by the Ainu people of Hokkaido in Japan, as well as interviewing Japanese WWII veterans. While Octo was probably talking about the 2003 anime rather than the actual manga, trying to compare these issues is very much apples to oranges.
I'm going to show up for the first time here in a million billion years (which, yeah, hi) to point out that at least one Jewish fan of the series I know has very vocally complained about this particular part of the trivia section, and wrote a post about it on tumblr here. Others on tumblr have also weighed in on this point and the concerns involved here and here. If it absolutely has to be kept, it should be treated as one of multiple sources of inspiration, not the source of inspiration, especially since over time mothy seems to have backpedaled away from it a bit outside of "Nemesis is the boss of Elphegort during Evillious WWII" and has narratively put greater weight on the references to the atomic bomb instead. This isn't an issue of "mothy did a problematic thing", this is an issue of "the wiki is currently doing a problematic thing, or at the very least is being deeply insensitive about a problematic topic", and that's what's got people upset.
I mean, I always translated that line as "goodbye my lover, my nemesis" in my head, but that admittedly sounds awkward given that the singer is.... y'know....
But it does work, even if it's odd.
I asked the aforementioned Western fan to post the Jyuppun no Koi snippet somewhere and give me the link because I desperately needed to hear it and have it be true, and now I can officially verify that it's. it's literally Jyuppun no Koi. It's legit the intro to Jyuppun no Koi, and now I'm feeling a complex blender of emotions that include "anger that I got played", "staring into the distance", and "laughing at just how beautifully wild this twist is".
Okay, in all seriousness it's actually kind of sweet that EC basically starts and ends with mothy's first ever Vocaloid song, like, that's adorable and makes me weirdly happy. It's just such a curveball though that it's just very, like. What.
Bless mothy for throwing this wild curveball at us.
For the record, mothy posted on twitter earlier and confirmed that "The Song I Heard Somewhere" is Clockwork Lullaby 8, so that's another mystery resolved.
I knew in my heart from day 1 that Waiter was Rillianne and I am so, so happy to see it more or less finally confirmed. I hope we get content detailing her adventures between when we saw her in Envy and when we saw her working in Banica's restaurant someday, that ought to be a fun series of shenanigans.
Also, IS IT POSSIBLE that based on what we've learned here, Re_Birthday an example of the purification process people go through once sucked into this particular Black Box? Since from the sound of it it is about Allen after all. (who the hell is Court!Irregular though)
I can't believe the Lilith equivalent is from endgame rather than OSS, given who real world Lilith is.
Maybe she's not actually one of the demons? I mean, this got established in the Sloth novel, and SC&P the song calls Sloth "the false sin" and singles it out in B&W when everyone else is in color, but like... maybe we're supposed to go all the way here?
Also THANK GOD, this isn't the end of EC as in no more songs ever, I was so worried for a bit.
Question: Do you mean Eve is not in the Ma soul smoothie, that Eve is not the dominant personality that became Ma, or that Ma is just. not Eve?
Oh god, it really is ending. That kinda hurts. I was hoping we might be able to go for another year to hit that 10-year-mark but wow.
If you guys need someone to help provide scans when it comes out, I've got cash and can probably use a proxy service to order the CD. It will take a VERY LONG TIME, since shipping from Japan to my place is very very snail-y, but I can do it. The question is, should I?
I know that, that's what I was trying to argue - Levia/Elluka is really obviously the overarching protagonist for everything pre-SoE as well as one of the protagonists of the Sloth arc (and as Nemesis, the protagonist of the Wrath arc). My problem is that anon is trying to present it as her being the only overarching protagonist at Allen's expense, even though Allen has been a central character since day 1 and is basically the overarching protagonist of the latter half of the series. Of course Evillious has multiple protagonists, it's too big to have only one single protagonist, my problem is people trying to downplay and ignore that Allen is one of the protagonists for the sake of bashing him and SoE content.
And I HAVE noticed a bit of a recurring problem where every time new SoE-related content comes out a certain subset of people start complaining and bashing it because it's SoE related regardless of what the content is or how plot relevant it is or - in this case - how much of it is something we've been waiting for answers on for years now. It happened when the Three Heroes album last year as well (even though all of the stuff revealed was genuinely new info that became relevant in JoC, and the Lucifen twins only showed up as cameos anyway), and I distinctly remember at least one person claim Rillianne showing up in the Envy novel was pandering (even though we should all know by now that mothy doesn't do pandering and was probably trying to set up a plot twist regarding endgame that - again - we have been waiting for years for).
I get being frustrated that the Story of Evil gets so much attention over other arcs, but do we really have to bash it every chance we get??? Is that really necessary??? Can't we please just have this one release without people bashing it because it's about Allen and Rillianne. please.
And now to try once again to get us off this topic, honestly as someone who's favorite non-Vocaloid band regularly does full albums of songs that are 10-15 minutes long each the length of this one is pretty much the norm for me. It's probably the usual three-songs-per-single mushed together into one big song though, given what mothy did last time.
I admit that I'm the one who got myself into this mess but can we please not have this turn into a fight, if you want to argue with me over who the protagonist is go message me on tumblr and we can go argue there, I really don't want to ruin everyone else's fun with pointless arguments after this.
All I'm going to say right here in the wiki thread is that I'm looking at it in release order, in which case Allen has been pretty consistently a character of importance and various conflicts and questions surrounding him have been major things since the very start of the series, whereas Elluka literally didn't exist until a decent amount of content had already come out and mothy decided to actually start connecting things and solidify the overall plot. In chronological order Elluka and Allen are undoubtably equal in protagonist-ness, with Elluka being the protagonist of the first half and Allen being the protagonist of the latter half, but in terms of release order Elluka only really showed up and became a protagonist about halfway through the series' run thus far.
It feels incredibly unfair to Allen and his character to act like he revolves entirely around Rillianne (and no, he doesn't, pricecheck's already debunked it), or that he is somehow a mere decoy protagonist for The Real Star Of The Show. I get being frustrated that the series tends to spiral back into SoE all the time but you really shouldn't downplay Allen's role and characterization for the sake of bashing him. And that's all I'm going to say on the matter, if you want to continue this argument take it to tumblr or something.
To everyone else, I sincerely apologize for this. I actually like Allen and am excited to see some long-time questions finally answered, so I'm a bit frustrated to see people complain that it's Allen again when this is something that I and so many other people have been waiting for for years.
I'm going to have to point out that nah, Allen was always a major character if not outright protagonist, and Elluka/Levia is more of a spotlight thief who highjacked the plot once mothy started to solidify things. My source is that I've been here since 2010 and saw Elluka and Irina's takeover happen in real time.
I do agree that Allen probably won't be alone in saving the world, and there probably will be a novel to wrap things up (especially given that endgame technically started in 2014, when master of the hellish yard dropped and Nemesis bombed everything), but at the end of the day given that the series literally started with Wordplay&Clockwork Lullaby and Daughter&Servant of Evil, it'll probably end with those in some way to bring it full circle. And that it's also unfair to call Allen a decoy protagonist when he's always been a central character.
On that note, I called it! The cover is calling back to Evils Theater!
I posted about this on tumblr earlier but okay, the teaser image DEFINITELY looks really similar to the Evils Theater album cover. It's definitely better drawn (which is understandable given that Evils Theater came out almost a decade ago), but it definitely has the giant gears, the white-to-gold gradient, and even the same weird transparent texture-y wires. I'm pretty sure this is intentional, and I'm super excited by what this could imply (Clockwork Lullaby remaster! Clockwork Lullaby remaster! Clockwork Lullaby remaster! Please give us a Clockwork Lullaby remaster! It's been nine years!).
Also in looking all of that up I realized that EC turns 10 next year and do you ever just get really frightened of the passing of time. I can't believe that we may finally get answers to near-decade-old questions.
Anyone else here think the background of the image looks really similar to the cover of Evils Theater? Because that's getting my hopes up for a possible Clockwork Lullaby remaster after all this time, assuming this is an album announcement.
Regardless, I am extremely excited, but also mildly frightened of whatever curveballs mothy will throw at us next.
My genuine apologies for taking so long to post the scans, school kinda got to me. I've got the full cover and the bookmark up on tumblr now, so you guys can check them over and do whatever editing you need. The cover DID get slightly cut off on Mayrana's end due to being a bit too long for the scanner, but it should otherwise be fine.
My apologies for basically performing some thread necromancy here, but I've finally gotten my copy of the Gift novel and is there anything you guys want me to scan or rescan in while I'm still at college and can access a scanner? We've pretty much got all of the illustrations so there's not much I'd need to scan unless you guys want to try for better quality scans, but checking the book's wiki page we don't seem to have a proper scan of the full cover. Anyone want me to scan that in just so that we have it all together?
Surprisingly, my copy also came with the clear bookmark from the Animate editions, so that I can definitely scan in as well since the photo of it we currently have kinda sucks in terms of quality. If there's anything else we need though let me know and I'll run down to the library to scan it in.
The real question is when the heck is mothy going to get back to the Theater arc, I can wait on the Third Period's creation but the Theater arc's been on hold for FIVE YEARS. I will not be satisfied with mere cameos, these are mysteries that have plagued us since 2010 (and have haunted me all seven years of my being a part of this fandom). Can mothy give us an update on that PLEASE?
On topic though: My copy of the MoN novel that I ordered way back when FINALLY arrived, so while I think we're good on illustrations if there's like, anything we're missing I can run on down to the library tomorrow and scan it in. Related to that, I found a place that sells almost all of the older novels for wonderfully cheap prices, so I can slowly but surely build up a collection over the course of the summer whenever I have a few extra dollars to spend (I've already got Gift on order, and I intend to get Pierrot next).
So my question to you guys is, do we have everything from all of the older novels scanned in? Or are there potentially missing things that I could try to scan in as I slowly collect them all? If I see anything I'll definitely go perform some necromancy on their respective threads and holler, but should I be on the lookout for anything? Or even rescan things we did have, but lost to the sands of time?
Again, is it in a design sense of like "This character is this vocaloid, but their design is pretty distinct from the base vocaloid itself", kinda like how Ene and Kano from Kagerou Project are Miku derivatives (and their earliest designs WERE Miku), minus the extreme redesigning to the point where almost all the Mikuness is gone? Or is it in a sense of Maria LITERALLY not being a Miku and being some other random vocaloid instead? Because the former I can understand, but anon's wording makes it sound like the latter, and it's seriously confusing me.
If it's the former, then it's still super weird to cite L&B and Elluka as examples since the three are still very easily recognizable as deriving from the Vocaloids playing them regardless of age-ups or palette swapping (and DEFINITELY don't go to the filing-off-of-serial-numbers extent Kagepro went to). I don't even know. Like, I THINK I get it, but I also don't get it at all.
Except Levia and Behemo ARE Kagamines, and Elluka Chirclatia IS a Luka??? Is there something I'm missing here where mothy went "Nah, totally not Vocaloid characters"??? Because last time I checked they were very definitely Kagamine and Luka characters respectively. Their designs are definitely a lot more unique than most Kagamine and Luka designs, but Levia is still very obviously a grown up Rin in a lab coat, Behemo is a grown up Len in a maid dress, and Elluka is literally a palette swap. And when you consider that pretty much ALL of the other Kagamine characters in the series are either direct or indirect clones of L&B there's just no WAY they can't NOT be grown-up, adult Kagamines.
Are you guys trying to argue that their designs aren't as blatantly Vocaloid-derived as other characters in the series? Because okay, that's a fair argument, Maria's design could be slightly different from the Standard Miku Formula. When you say "She may not be a Miku" though you are making it sound like she's actually Prima or Sonika or something, or that Elluka was, in fact, Lily the whole time, or that L&B are actually Leon and Lola or VY1 and VY2. Like..... What??? NONE of that makes any sense.
Mariam at least has the excuse of her ACTUAL Vocaloid being discontinued with no port to newer software versions, while currently also being the only example of mothy outright substituting Vocaloids, but something sounds EXTREMELY weird here that Maria may somehow not be a Miku even though she's played by Miku and all her thematic relationships thus far (such as the MotC and Madame Merry-Go-Round references) have pointed to her being a Miku. I'm genuinely sorry if I'm just getting us further off track, but I am legitimately confused by the wording here. How are these guys..... NOT Vocaloid characters for the Vocaloid portraying them???
The current theory is that either Irina, Maria, or both together somehow ended up in Michelle and/or the Clockwork Doll. The Maria part because of the parallels in Queen of the Glass to Miniature Garden Girl and Master of the Court the song (and basically "Michelle"/Court's whole storyline), the whole Madame Merry-Go-Round thing, and because every Kaito in the series thus far has been either an asshole or an Oedipus, and having Adam mistake his own mother for his wife is just the sort of thing mothy would do at this point honestly. The Irina part is because the doll can use magic blue flames, and that's apparently something only Irina can do.
My gut says that it's probably Maria who's dominant given how we have a pile of thematic evidence VS one single piece of direct evidence, but the whole "Elluka is Levia&Behemo standing on top of each other like a totem pole in a trenchcoat" thing, we have precident for two people incarnating into the same body, and one being dominant while the other is just... chilling. i guess. so it COULD be both. How'd Maria get there? We don't know. We probably won't learn that unless mothy goes back to the theater plotline after five whole dang years, which we're kinda due for. (seriously mothy, go back to the theater already, it's been way too long....)