Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-6192846-20140612134000/@comment-10608690-20140912083752

Servant of Evillious wrote:

Coppélia wrote: 1. Meh, what’s the rush with merging their pages? You would also have to go in depth on how exactly are you going to combine the two (I would like to hear this). If you've read my post, you've seen the comparison for the two characters (if looked at separately). The merge wouldn't affect much in ways of information. The biggest impact would probably be the removal of JoC's perception of the encounter between "Hellish" and Gallerian, should we go by the song labels and assume Muzzle portarys the true events while JoC portrayed skewed or incorrect events (just like the DoE/SoE labels).

At this point it doesn't matter if you believe if Nemesis=MotHellY or not, it's whether you want their pages to be merged. Yes, I've read your post and all your facts about Nemesis&MotHellY, but how would you assemble/fill in the gaps on unconfirmed info nessesary for their combination. The EC wiki would have to decide on:
 * At what point would Nemesis became the MotHellY
 * Which events actually happened;TMoN or JoC (as you mentioned).
 * Which page would be moved to the other Nemesis>MotHellY or MotHellY>Nemesis
 * Is MotHellY a title she refers herself as or is there more to that

Coppélia wrote: Why not give MotHellY the same treatment as the other Masters. Has Clockworker’s Doll&MotC, Bancia&MotGY, Irregular&MotHeavenlyY been merged as one? Also pointed out in my post, there are differences in the situation for both. From what I could tell, the overall reasoning for keeping them separate was because of the ambiguity about the characters during that long stretch, combined with a lack of clarity on whether something else went into play (ie, Is Irregular/MotG just Banica/Allen or a kind of reincarnation of them?). That's what I understood the motivation to be for that sentiment.

In this case, we're dealing with two characters that (when put side by side) are doing the same actions (in summary), associated with one another, and their actions cause a significant effect on a third party (Gallerian Marlon) where the third party's original perception has two contextual pieces of evidence putting his perception of events into doubt. There is direct information on how Eve is literally Margarita, but are you merging their pages? To an amount I can agree with you about their similar experiences, but Gallerian's perception is what seperates them. Nemesis's song shows that Gallerian was just hallucinating MotHellY, but MotHellY's song doesn't mention Gallerian at all. Also now that I think about it-- the mood they give off seems different. In TMoN, Nemesis gives off a cool/merciful vibe and in MotHellY song/Gallerian's encounter with MotHellY you see her more of a wild/cruel type. She probably got possessed by demon of Wrath and it used her body to become MotHellY Ney and DoGluttony style

Coppélia wrote: Snip  -trying to save space- Servant of Evillious wrote:

What you're saying has equal, if not more chance of getting messy. As my previous reply states, we'll have two characters who were assassins that became dictators, created super weapons dubbed "Punishment", destroy a forest (Millennium Tree Forest), and plan to destroy Evillious with their weapon. On top of which, we're putting Gallerian through two reptitions of the same basic event.

What reader's not going to scratch their head and wonder what makes those two different? Allen ---> Irregular can be seen as simply a continuation of the other with an unknown gap in between. Hellish and Nemesis can't.

And then there's the use of "become" this Master. There's no need to specify the when if we don't know it (and that's assuming she "became" something different than herself). Using my above examples and my previous post, there's nothing outside of JoC indicating there's an actual guardian of the underworld with that name in existence.

And before you pull up the lyrics, the Japanese are referencing a translation from Sanskrit that was translated into English using an archaic grammar mechanic: "I am become Master of the Hellish Yard" is essentially just "I am the Master of the Hellish Yard".

Y ou're also putting the Hellish song in a vaccuum and not considering it in context to what it was released with: the Muzzle album. Are we to not assume Girl Went Mad refers to Nemesis either? It's not explicit!! No. The Muzzle PV supports it and the album essentially goes in a reverse order chronologically (up til reaching the ambiguous BSS and confirmed non-Evillious song, Watching Us).

We got a booklet leading up to the very first song in the album (Hellish) and its events, followed by Muzzle, TLR, and Girl Went Mad. We have tons of context supporting it. The only point of contention that's the subject of everyone's debate is JoC, which (a) the song labels in mothy's playlist and (b) the Muzzle PV indicate is a skewed perception. How would leaving the pages as it is and just adding the MotHellY song info to MotHellY page get more messy. It wouldn't bring up those issues I bulleted above. I discuss the "going through the same events" question above^. It would be better for the user to "scratch their head and wonder what makes those two different" then having them question the plot holes between the Nemesis to MotHellY stage.

Why can't Nemesis&MotHellY be seen as a continuation of the other with an unknown gap in between? Welp yes evidence, but there's also got to be another reason why Gallerian was coincidentally confronted by MotHellY other than he was crazy. Before I go more in depth, I would like clear answers to the issues I've bulleted above, for it will probably change some of my opinions.

Octofan wrote: Snip...

It's not to say there aren't ambiguities at all. It's just that what there is can be covered in a trivia point and it would be enough; like us not stating for sure that Gallerian is Nemesis' biological, adopted, or perceived father. See bulleted issues above for my doubts, but yes at some point we do have to draw connections ourselves though you're taking about merging two pages as one. Also you can't just add to triva "Hey we don't really know much about Nemesis shifting over to MotHellY but we combined their pages". There is also some possiblities that Mothy might throw at us, better be safe than sorry.

Servant of Evillious wrote:

TheKindEvilliousResident~ wrote: Snip Snip Yeah but JoC Gallerian and TMoN Gallerian have the same clothing and says basically the same statement that he's said in both songs. Everything is basically the same except in JoC it's MotHellY and in TMoN it's Nemesis. We have to assume one is the truth because they can't possibly happen at the same time.

Not combining them will save time, blood , prevent misformation if mothy goes troll on us, and more debates. Also if you wait (like many users have been asking) you can do revisions, add new confirmed info, and merge if needed (Nemesis=MotHellY) all at once. If you REALLY want to merge their pages and possibly make mistakes or have to retrieve a whole page, go ahead  you masochist. Do what's best for the many fans that come to this wiki looking for trustworthy info and guidance.

Forgive my horrible cluster of words and typos, yes it's 4am Abyss