Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-6192846-20140612134000/@comment-6192846-20140904181910

Wanderingsilverrose wrote: The song Master of the Hellish Yard states that the assassin became a dictator, but did the booklet state that she and Nemesis are the same? Allusions are one thing, but I don't feel it's explicity stated.

This argument's always a tricky subject so I'll address it later.

Misstress of the heavenly yard wrote: I don't see how it can be anyother way then that they are the same. The demon overtook Nemesis' body and stole her identity, acting on it's own wishes. There, I just made a feasible possibility. We've had similar instances in the past so the idea that this can't be twisted isn't completely out of the picture.

Wanderingsilverrose wrote: The theory of The Last Revolver being about Gumillia was proven wrong, if you recall. The cases are a bit different. As the person who decided we'd remove the info from articles, I can say there was absolutely no official works supporting the song as Evillious, let alone featuring Gumillia. All evidence was circumstantial. At most, we had Evils Forest teasing it. I'll elaborate more later.

Evil Food Eater Conchita wrote: Following the logic you tried to apply, Misstress, Gumillia and Nemesis are the same character because both are "Eight". We shouldn't pull the trigger about assumptions, [......] I agree with your idea, but your example is a bit off  imo. Nemesis is confirmed as "Eight" not "VIII. the Sniper"; Gumillia and Nemesis share a code number but that's it. They have distinct codenames (so far).

As for pulling the trigger about assumptions, that's already been done with Irregular and Allen Avadonia being assumed to have a connect. I mean, despite them being portrayed with the same clothes, same Vocaloid, and similar descriptions, maybe they have nothing to do with each other! Allen's may be "irregular" but that doesn't necessarily mean he's "Irregular".

Even Gallerian and Hellish's meeting as currently inputted in the articles is an assumption that it isn't a result of his delusion, which was made clear even before The Muzzle of Nemesis came out. This is a very borderline argument and is purely based on our subjective approach to the matter.

Coppélia wrote:

Then when she mentions Nemesis, she refers to her in 3rd person narrative " The assassin became a dicta   tor; when she fired "Punishment", though of course this could just be for narrative reasons. Yes they both share similar descriptions and actions, but you shouldn't just assume they are the same person. By that logic, Banica Conchita and the one who was dissatisfied with their fifteenth cook are two different people, as it switches between first and third person during certain instances of the songs. Songs are very malleable in this manner when it comes to portraying a character, allowing their creators to be a little meta with their portrayals of events. I can't really see that as a strong argument, personally.

Coppélia wrote:

Instead it's better to do the opposite, wait until  further sources confirm their same identity, it's safer than spreading false information again like with  Gumillia and Nemesis. This is true up til a point. At some point, a degree of common sense must be exerted. You see a thief walk into a bank then out with money with cops chasing after him, it's safe to say he stole it until some evidence steps forward to prove it otherwise.

To avoid using my Irregular example again, it would've also been safer to assume Earl Felix and Dr. Felix weren't related and just happened to both have the surname Felix. Yet the new light novel only reinforces what was "obvious" without a reasonable doubt. It goes both ways.

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I see a lot of people mentioning the booklet and such but not a single quote or mention of it's exact material so I'll post most (if not all) of the "evidence" supporting Nemesis=Hellish.

Relevant Master of the Hellish Yard song lyrics:


 * "There is a rectangular black box before my eyes"


 * "That key is in the palm of my hand"


 * "I am become Master of the Hellish Yard,"


 * "The "boy" of the end is aimed at the forest, Its name is "Punishment""


 * "The assassin became a dictator; when she fired "Punishment""

Relevant The Muzzle of Nemesis PV information:


 * Phrases "And then the Girl Went Mad", "Abandoned" twice, "The Last Revolver", "Judgment of Corruption", and "Master of the Hellish Yard" appear in succession during climax.

Relevant The Muzzle of Nemesis (album) booklet information:


 * "Becoming the dicatator, Nemesis ordered the Elphegort army to invade the Lucifenian Republic."


 * "[...] so Supreme Ruler Nemesis* spear-headed the investment into the secret development and production of a new weapon to combat them─dubbed "Punishment"."

held in the hands of the Elphegort leader, Nemesis Sudou."
 * "The Golden Key that can activate the firing device, Black Box, is now─

Relevant mothy postings:


 * Several songs lyrics and PV images would be symbolic and metaphorical.


 * Recent playlist dubs Judgement of Corruption "Leviantan Civil War" and The Muzzle of Nemesis "Leviantan Civil War (truth)"; The Daughter of Evil is "Lucifenian Revolution" and The Servant of Evil is "Lucifenian Revolution (truth)".

This isn't even any quoted similarities in PV and lyrics between JoC and TMoN. Beyond mothy's tweets about the lyrics/PV.

The Master of the Hellish Yard, the character featured in Evils Court's illustrations among the other masters in the End of the Four series (so not really arguable that she's the same as the one featured in Capriccio Farce or Judgment of Corruption), has recieved her song in the aforementioned series.

In this song, it states:


 * The Master of the Hellish Yard is mentioned to be an assassin who became a dictator that's fired a weapon named "Punishment" aimed at a forest and carries a golden key in her hand that could fire the weapon.

The Muzzle of Nemesis booklet info (which leads us right into the first lyrics in the tracklist (ie, this song's lyrics)) states:


 * Nemesis Sudou (an assassin; confirmed via The Last Revolver and The Muzzle of Nemesis) becomes the dictator of Elphegort, and leads the development of a weapon named "Punishment", It is tested in the Millennium Tree Forest and she carries the Golden Key in her hand that could fire the weapon.

On top of which, We are provided two pairs of songs with the latter being labeled as "(truth)". The first set features:


 * The Daughter of Evil - told from the perspective of the general public; events given skewed portrayal.


 * The Servant of Evil - told from the perspective of the singer; events given actual portrayal.

And the second set features:


 * Judgment of Corruption - told from the perspective of the singer


 * The Muzzle of Nemesis - told from the perspective of the singer

The latter of whom is also given the same "(truth)" treatment. The Daughter/Servant of Evil already establish a pattern so are we going to ignore that same pattern for JoC/Muzzle?

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A lot are also throwing around TLR character=Gumillia and forget that the information on this wiki was removed due to a lack of circumstantial evidence. It wasn't disproven by The Muzzle of Nemesis and then removed. It was taken down for lacking anything supporting it (and evidence subtly going against it). Master of the Hellish Yard has a lot more official material supporting Nemesis=Hellish, explicit or not.

Someone try to make the same comparison I made between the Muzzle album and Hellish song for The Last Revolver and something else. I can get MotG, MotC, Irregular, etc. have a lot of ambiguity on who they are and/or whether they're incarnations, just people, demons, or whatever fueling wanting to keep their articles separate.

I don't see this being one of those cases.