Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-6192846-20130929130231/@comment-6192846-20150103233333

67.67.8.132 wrote: I will be honest: a fair number of people (I can name five ncluding myself) want to keep Kachess based on familiarity/because Curtess doesn't sit right as a name with them because they feel there's enough information to get used to and find any name changes of long-established names to be rather annoying and frustrating on top of the slew of other information we're getting that isn't just superficial. I respect that and sympathize very much. It's never easy getting use to a change in information, especially when it comes to names. Regardless of what we change it to, it's going to suck for me and my muscle memory typing it for a while, I feel.

67.67.8.132 wrote: It's one more thing to get used to, one that, in this case, was supposedly firmly established long ago. It's something that could be re-opened later when we're not knee-deep in other information (like the bomb with Irregular maybe not being who we thought he was, or at least not in the way he thought he was). That sounds silly to me. When would we reopen it? In a month, when we'll be knee-deep in a full story? In a few months when we'll be knee-deep in Pierrot twists? Further down when there's something else.

Yes, this conversation perhaps should've been had when the name first came out. That can be said about Sateriajis and Meilis as well, way back when. But whatever the reason, it didn't. We're having it now. This wiki has made name change discussions concurrent with huge loads of new information and plot twists before and will probably continue to do so.

If it's a lot, I apologize, but there can always be some excuse to say "Why are we having this now" and it's a little late to say that at this point.

67.67.8.132 wrote: (Also, if you're arguing accuracy, I believe someone earlier said that then his surname should be Cream instead of Crim, but I don't see that being debated.) Fallacy. The last discussion on Crim was regarding trivia, specifically whether or not to remove the trivia speculating "crime" was a possible derivation and add trivia speculating that "cream" (from "ice cream") was a possible derivation.

Please point out where someone said that Crim (クリム/Crimu) should be Cream (クリーム/criimu).

67.67.8.132 wrote: IDK. I guess my opinion is to at least leave it for now--which does seem to be the common sentiment. Maybe re-open later when things are less confusing or there isn't a ton of information being thrown at us. Regardless of the "common sentiment" (which I feel would prefer keeping Kachess for familiarity reasons, but you can't say objectively from the "five people" + myself/others you know in a much larger fandom), when this conversation happens doesn't affect that it will be happening, whatever the change ends up being. If you're feeling that you would feel more inclined to accepting an inevitable change in the future, why not get it done now and over with?

67.67.8.132 wrote: I'm honestly frustrated by some of the name changes, especially since as some people on Tumblr have said, they don't really add or take away from the story and, I quote, "seem needlessly nitpicky at this point."

I apologize for that, but look at where you're having this discussion. A wiki. A fan information database. Ideally, our goal is to be accurate, which, yes, means we will (have) and probably continue to be nitpicky on things that are ultimatley trivial in the grand scheme of things.

I've expressed this in discussions before and will say it again: This wiki is not word of god. Whether you go with our information or not is purely your decision. What we discuss here is strictly for what we end supporting in our articles.

You want to say Meilis, Sateriajis, Marchiusu, Asmodin, Madness of Duke Venomania, etc? Go right ahead. Not like I or anyone else here can enforce it. That's each fan's perogative. A choice on whether to use this wiki as your measuring stick. You can even pick and choose.

Fans will ultimately go with what they want, regardless of what's "correct" even if it comes straight from mothy's mouth without a reasonable doubt.

67.67.8.132 wrote: I'm being stubborn, yes, but so are you, and I'm extremely frustrated. There's enough information already to process, sudden name changes aren't helping. And I already know a few people who are becoming extremely frustrated with debates over established names without Mothy revealing an English translation for older names (see: Riliane vs Rilliane, Chirkrasia vs. Chirclatia). You're extremely frustrating, eh? ;p

I am being stubborn. I am doing so for a change I personally do not like but rationally cannot deny with the evidence provided, and so have provided my personal preference and deductive reasoning for that preference.

If you're truly speaking plainly, then you're admitting your being stubborn due to your personal frustration with a change, independent of whatever evidence is provided for or against it. Correct me, if I'm wrong.

As sad at the top, I sympathize with your desire, and even frustration, about a change. It's troublesome. But if you're frustrated that I or others oppose you with the basis provided, clearly nothing said or done here will satisfy you unless it goes in your favor.

Veno's Pretty Hair wrote: Personally, anything less than Kachess just sounds stupid to me, I'm sorry. Nothing else flows as well. You need to keep in mind this is also stuff we've had established for ages. It's not as simple as changing Sateriajis to Sateriasis. The article for "Duke Sateriajis Venomania" was made on February 6, 2012. The name change from "Sateriajis Venomania" to "Sateriasis Venomania" was done on October 19, 2013.

That's about a year and a half. I am not sure what you define as "ages" but for me and I'm sure at least a few others who came in from that February 6, 2012 up til that name change, it was the only name we knew and was around for as long as we were fans.

Regardless, it was done. How is this much different than the current situation with Kachess? This goes double for a name like Meilis, which has been around since presumably the song. What's the different there either?

Veno's Pretty Hair wrote: Personally, I don't understand why all of a sudden this has to change??????? I gave a pass for us to leave Kachess as is int he original discuss due to the consensus and no clear evidence barring what we currently had.

Misstress then brought up the Kaa vs Ka fact, which the anon spoke about and I elaborated upon. I may have misintepretted what Lemmings said in the original topic, but after pointing out I couldn't find his source for saying "Kachess" was spelled the same way in Japanese as the Japanese name for Kachess Crim, he posted a pic.

Said pic shows "Lake Kachess" in the US with a different spelling than Kachess Crim's name, making the current translation being used incorrect. Unless another objective piece of information comes up, using Kachess for solely subjective preference ("It's been around for ages", "I hate all the other options") is nonsense.

These same reasonings were used with Meilis and Sateriajis, but their old spellings were at least objectively correct in literally translating romanization (minus the "u" sound at the end).